LD Bowen Byram - Vancouver Giants, WHL (2019, 4th, COL)

[avsfan09]

He could win a memorial cup? Work on rounding out his defensive game? World junior gold? Hockey is a team sport, remember.

Hf is a funny place sometimes. I feel like Byram could win the memorial cup, a U20 gold medal, and CHL player of the year next year, but if he scored even one less point than he did the year before, the season would be considered a failure. Lol.

Yes he could work on all those things. The question is whether or not he is best suited to work on that in the WHL or NHL. I'm personally hoping he shows up to camp and proves he's ready. If not I'm fine with the WHL.

 

[tucker3434]

What do you base this on? His point totals?

Unless heavily sheltered he will struggle big time in the NHL.

He has a number of areas to improve on such as backwards skating, overall compete level in the defensive zone, defensive positioning, puck retrievals etc.

He has some really bad habits at the junior level that will need to be fixed before I'd be comfortable seeing him on the NHL ice if I was a GM/coach.

He is physically too good for that league. He can compensate for his mistakes with speed and strength. So the incentive to improve in those areas is reduced. As I’ve said, the best spot for him would be an intermediate league, but it’s not an option.

He’s going to get a risk-free 9 game tryout in the NHL, so our GM/coach will have a solid sample to determine whether his flaws can be corrected in-season.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

He has some really bad habits at the junior level that will need to be fixed before I'd be comfortable seeing him on the NHL ice if I was a GM/coach.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Dominance]

What do you base this on? His point totals?

Unless heavily sheltered he will struggle big time in the NHL.

He has a number of areas to improve on such as backwards skating, overall compete level in the defensive zone, defensive positioning, puck retrievals etc.

He has some really bad habits at the junior level that will need to be fixed before I'd be comfortable seeing him on the NHL ice if I was a GM/coach.

Finally switched tack away from “he’s a bad skater”?

 

[Jayevs]

I kinda wish he could go to Finland or Sweden for a development year, IF he’s shows that his game isn’t quite NHL ready.

 

[avalancheboi]

If Hawks let this kid drop to 4 I'll buy the jersey of the player they pick at 3.

Dach jersey in the mail.

 

[Avaholic29]

Finally switched tack away from “he’s a bad skater”?

Just another case of HF scout lol. Byram is really good in most of the mentioned areas. He's obviously going to struggle in the NHL though as he's 18 years old. It won't be because of backward skating lmao

 

[Avaholic29]

Once in a while an 18 year old defenseman comes along that can play well in the NHL So I guess we will see. Each prospect has their own path and I love the approach the Lanche took with Makar. However that was apples and oranges since Makar jumped from the AJHL to a major college program which provided a big step up in competition. Byram would be going back to a league he dominated so the benefit might seem more muted. CHL is a great league though and another season will go fast especially with a World junior tournament. Although I tend to err on this side of caution with prospects I don’t pretend to know enough about Byram to have the answer to this. Hell of a prospect though and it will suck to face him 5 times a year.

Makar also didn't leave them a choice, he was going back for a second year of NCAA no matter what. Hes a smart kid.

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

There really needs to be a plan for these kids that aren’t ready for NHL action, but are to good for the CHL. I get the business decision from the CHL because they want to make money and grow the league, but Byram would do well with a step up in competition.

I think the best route for Byram is to get his 9 games then head back to the giants. He should get back around November if they sit him a couple games to rest him. Then it’ll be team Canada time in December so it’s not like he’s going to spend the whole season with the Giants.

 

[AvsCOL]

The more I think on it, the more sense it makes to send him back. Not that I'm doubting he could keep up in the NHL, but his 3 ELC years are going to be HUGE moving forward. If you can add him next year when he's ready for a top-4 role, then you have a top-4 defenseman under control for 3 years under a million.

 

[Dr Quincy]

He is physically too good for that league. He can compensate for his mistakes with speed and strength. So the incentive to improve in those areas is reduced. As I’ve said, the best spot for him would be an intermediate league, but it’s not an option.

He’s going to get a risk-free 9 game tryout in the NHL, so our GM/coach will have a solid sample to determine whether his flaws can be corrected in-season.

COL may or may not be the best place for him next year, but there is no such thing as the bolded. Every decision has risks.

 

[tucker3434]

COL may or may not be the best place for him next year, but there is no such thing as the bolded. Every decision has risks.

You can add an “effectively” up there if it makes you feel better, but it’s splitting hairs. Barring something catastrophic *knock on wood*, the 9 game tryout is harmless for all parties.

 

[ps241]

Makar also didn't leave them a choice, he was going back for a second year of NCAA no matter what. Hes a smart kid.

I think it worked out great with Makar....I wonder if the club would have started him at the beginning of last season if they had the option? Either way you guys Should have a formidable top pairing at some point IMHO.

 

[avsfan09]

COL may or may not be the best place for him next year, but there is no such thing as the bolded. Every decision has risks.

Is that risk any higher than sending him back to Junior? Not sure. Training camp, Preseason and his first 9 games will tell us.

 

[Zaddy]

Finally switched tack away from “he’s a bad skater”?

He is a bad backwards skater, which I mentioned in my post. He is hardly a plus skater in another areas as well although he does a good job when it comes to lateral agility and straight-line speed once he gets going. Skating is a multi-faceted skill, you can be really bad at some areas and quite good at others. Byram as a whole I wouldn't classify a good/great skater.

Just another case of HF scout lol. Byram is really good in most of the mentioned areas. He's obviously going to struggle in the NHL though as he's 18 years old. It won't be because of backward skating lmao

Thanks but I've worked professionally in scouting and I see some habits in his game that will need to be addressed if he's going to hang at the NHL level and it has nothing to do with age.

Care to elaborate?

Feel free to look through my post history, I've elaborated on it (in-depth, with video evidence) a number of times there already, not going to re-hash myself at this point in time.

 

[Zaddy]

He is physically too good for that league. He can compensate for his mistakes with speed and strength. So the incentive to improve in those areas is reduced. As I’ve said, the best spot for him would be an intermediate league, but it’s not an option.

He’s going to get a risk-free 9 game tryout in the NHL, so our GM/coach will have a solid sample to determine whether his flaws can be corrected in-season.

His defensive game is nowhere near NHL level. Physically "too good" or not, there are certainly things he can work on in juniors. Evan Bouchard lit up the OHL last season, still went back to work on his physical game and puck retrievals (this according to Scott Howson, the Oilers man in charge for player development). To think that Byram is a finished product and too good for juniors at this point is simply ludicrous.

 

[tucker3434]

His defensive game is nowhere near NHL level. Physically "too good" or not, there are certainly things he can work on in juniors. Evan Bouchard lit up the OHL last season, still went back to work on his physical game and puck retrievals (this according to Scott Howson, the Oilers man in charge for player development). To think that Byram is a finished product and too good for juniors at this point is simply ludicrous.

If I thought he was a finished product, I’d be penciling him in our top line, not a sheltered 3rd pairing role. I’m aware that a guy that just turned 18 is going to take some work. I’m just not sure that work is best done at the WHL level. I know if it was up to Sakic, they’d love to be able to decide between Denver Loveland for him.

And again, we’re going to get 9 games to see him. Obviously, if he struggles in his own zone for those 9 games, he’ll be back with the Giants pretty quickly. But I don’t know that he needs to light the world on fire to stay up. They might be happy limiting his defensive exposure and easing him in over the course of the year.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Feel free to look through my post history, I've elaborated on it (in-depth, with video evidence) a number of times there already, not going to re-hash myself at this point in time.

I was just hoping for a quick little list since this is a friendly conversational forum and it seemed like you wanted to share your position (seems pretty easy to me if you're so well versed on him) but that's okay. I really don't care about your opinion enough to research it lol.

 

[Dominance]

He is a bad backwards skater, which I mentioned in my post. He is hardly a plus skater in another areas as well although he does a good job when it comes to lateral agility and straight-line speed once he gets going. Skating is a multi-faceted skill, you can be really bad at some areas and quite good at others. Byram as a whole I wouldn't classify a good/great skater.


Thanks but I've worked professionally in scouting and I see some habits in his game that will need to be addressed if he's going to hang at the NHL level and it has nothing to do with age.


Feel free to look through my post history, I've elaborated on it (in-depth, with video evidence) a number of times there already, not going to re-hash myself at this point in time.

You’re off your rocker on this. I understand why you “worked” (past tense) in scouting. Byram’s game is predicated on his confidence and strong *overall* skating, and claiming it is no more than average and insinuating it as a potential weakness is an asinine statement that goes against the impression of the entirety of the scouting community and the multitudes of people on here who watched him dozens of times over these past couple of years. Your other criticisms are fully debatable points. But this is blatantly false, full stop.

 

[Patagonia]

His defensive game is nowhere near NHL level. Physically "too good" or not, there are certainly things he can work on in juniors. Evan Bouchard lit up the OHL last season, still went back to work on his physical game and puck retrievals (this according to Scott Howson, the Oilers man in charge for player development). To think that Byram is a finished product and too good for juniors at this point is simply ludicrous.

Where are you making these assumptions about Byram's skating? Scouts raves it's elite that allows him to separate himself during rushes. He also plays with some nastiness.

Bouchard offensive upside is comparable, but Byram is substantially better all-around defensively. If they were on the same draft Byram would still be selected higher. He did have outstanding numbers in his draft year, but not good enough the following season to play for the Oilers. With an extremely thin RHD, this shouldn't have been easier and still struggled.

 

[S E P H]

He is physically too good for that league. He can compensate for his mistakes with speed and strength. So the incentive to improve in those areas is reduced. As I’ve said, the best spot for him would be an intermediate league, but it’s not an option.

He’s going to get a risk-free 9 game tryout in the NHL, so our GM/coach will have a solid sample to determine whether his flaws can be corrected in-season.

Nope. Just because he throws an occasional hit doesn't mean he can play against Getzlafs' of the league.

His defensive game is nowhere near NHL level. Physically "too good" or not, there are certainly things he can work on in juniors. Evan Bouchard lit up the OHL last season, still went back to work on his physical game and puck retrievals (this according to Scott Howson, the Oilers man in charge for player development). To think that Byram is a finished product and too good for juniors at this point is simply ludicrous.

I don't get what you mean by saying his defensive game isn't good? Byram isn't an offencive defender, he started the season off as a shutdown guy who got more comfortable as the season went along in using his offensive tools. He still has some fantastic shutdown characteristics, where he turned away from them once the coach started wanting to use him in more offence situations. If there is a category where he will probably regress in, it is his offensive potency and points.

Scouts raves it's elite that allows him to separate himself during rushes. He also plays with some nastiness.

His skating is good, but nothing special. Saying it's "elite" is pushing it. It is good in the WHL and will be good in the NHL.

 

[tucker3434]

Nope. Just because he throws an occasional hit doesn't mean he can play against Getzlafs' of the league.


I don't get what you mean by saying his defensive game isn't good? Byram isn't an offencive defender, he started the season off as a shutdown guy who got more comfortable as the season went along in using his offensive tools. He still has some fantastic shutdown characteristics, where he turned away from them once the coach started wanting to use him in more offence situations. If there is a category where he will probably regress in, it is his offensive potency and points.


His skating is good, but nothing special. Saying it's "elite" is pushing it. It is good in the WHL and will be good in the NHL.

If that’s the litmus test, the NHL is full of unworthy defenders.

 

[Zaddy]

You’re off your rocker on this. I understand why you “worked” (past tense) in scouting. Byram’s game is predicated on his confidence and strong *overall* skating, and claiming it is no more than average and insinuating it as a potential weakness is an asinine statement that goes against the impression of the entirety of the scouting community and the multitudes of people on here who watched him dozens of times over these past couple of years. Your other criticisms are fully debatable points. But this is blatantly false, full stop.

Nice try but I passed down a job working as a full-time scout/analyst in SHL because I didn't want to spend all my days in a rink or on the road. Being a scout isn't a very glamorous job. I could get right back into it if I wanted to. I also didn't say his skating is a weakness per se, I said he has some areas of his skating that he really needs to work on, while he is good in other areas. Maybe if you read my post instead of getting your panties in a twist you'd have gotten that part of my post too.

I don't get what you mean by saying his defensive game isn't good? Byram isn't an offencive defender, he started the season off as a shutdown guy who got more comfortable as the season went along in using his offensive tools. He still has some fantastic shutdown characteristics, where he turned away from them once the coach started wanting to use him in more offence situations. If there is a category where he will probably regress in, it is his offensive potency and points.

Again, I've posted numerous video clips backing my opinion up as to why Byram is not a good defender (ask anyone on the Oilers boards and they'll confirm it). I'm too lazy to dig it up right now because frankly I'm not in a good mood and I do not care to do it at the moment but maybe at some point later I will.

Where are you making these assumptions about Byram's skating? Scouts raves it's elite that allows him to separate himself during rushes. He also plays with some nastiness.

He's great at rushing the puck, I'll give him that. But skating is a multi-faceted skill that contains a lot more than just rushing the puck or having good lateral agility.

 

[Goulet17]

I like how seemingly every poster is a scout or formerly a scout on these boards. It increases the entertainment value with the discussions.

 

[Zaddy]

I like how seemingly every poster is a scout or formerly a scout on these boards. It increases the entertainment value with the discussions.

Feel free to PM me and I can back it up.

Either way there's plenty of posters on these boards who know what they're talking about and whose opinions I take very seriously and could make it in the scouting industry if they wanted to (or perhaps have already tried that route and decided it was not for them).