Post-Game Talk: Lazy.gif

[MessierII]

Even look at a rebuilding lineup like the Nucks. They have a better bottomsix than us and their worst player is probably Spooner, who they acquired, from us.

When we play teams like the Leafs, Sharks, any decent club, its undeniable how remarkably better their bottomsix is. Its not just opinion either. Most clubs get scoring depth. Want to compare our bottom production to say Calgary?

I agree. In my opinion we have can throw out a top unreal top line, a bad second line and two 4th lines. We need a full 3rd line up front and at least one more legit top 6 winger.

 

[rickysusedsht]

Colby Cave is rarely on the pk, not even half minute a game on average, and his GA/60mins while on PK is 19.5. So better to even not mention it.

He does seem OK on the dot. At 50%. HIs GA EV are 2.1/60mins, not bad, but his GF being around 1 means he's on ice for 1GA negative differential every 60mins played.

But aside from the stats he's just a very ordinary player. Not big, strong, not mean, aggressive. Look around NHL lineups and teams in the playoffs have far better depth than this. Even teams not in the playoff picture often do. Cave is in this lineup because of how shockingly bad our NHL ready roster is.

Brodz should be gone, fired into the sun. Awful player now. We haven't got a lot out of bottomsix. Cave maybe looks not out of place due to how horrible our bottomsix is.

Once again Not seeing how your going to build your dream bottom 6 on a team tight to the cap. If you can find 6 guys at the cost that , put up the numbers your wanting then you might be the next GM. I think with a full year here next year he gets 10 plus with out a doubt. We Will have a good mix of youth and some speed in the bottom 6 next year and he will fit right in as a center. But hey you have your opinion and i have mine I feel he is solid and apparently others do as well . have lots of time for competive players, they drive out the over paid lazy ones

 

[Drivesaitl]

Once again Not seeing how your going to build your dream bottom 6 on a team tight to the cap. If you can find 6 guys at the cost that , put up the numbers your wanting then you might be the next GM. I think with a full year here next year he gets 10 plus with out a doubt. We Will have a good mix of youth and some speed in the bottom 6 next year and he will fit right in as a center. But hey you have your opinion and i have mine I feel he is solid and apparently others do as well . have lots of time for competive players, they drive out the over paid lazy ones

Lets have 2 AHL lines instead of one next season..

The thought of Colby Cave even being here next season would be an indictment of the roster put together and indication that no help was acquired in offseason.

 

[Drivesaitl]

On many nights this season we've dressed a bottomsix that has a collective 10 goals COMBINED on the season. you have to look a long ways to find clubs that have more futile bottomxix players.

A bottomsix goal, occurring in bottomsix play, is rare on this team. Because of how poor those lines are.

 

[rickysusedsht]

Lets have 2 AHL lines instead of one next season..

The thought of Colby Cave even being here next season would be an indictment of the roster put together and indication that no help was acquired in offseason.

With a possible gm coming in june you better get used to the line up on the ice minus a couple of guys. If the guys that are in the bottom get pushed by better players then great im all for that , but i dont see any one knocking down the door . we are winning with the guys there and i expect they will continue to improve as the whole team is trending in the right way.

 

[Fourier]

meh.

I've watched Benson in around 15 games in prospects games and preseason games. tbh he hasn't lifted me out of my seat at anytime. He hasn't even excelled in these games. I would have expected a player with elite vision to dominate at prospects level at least.

Does anybody in this thread actually watch a lot of Bakersfield games? Do you?

I'm honestly not following what you mean by the Alexandre Giroux reference.

I am curious when these 15 prospect games and preseason games were. Unless I am mistaken Benson never played in the Penticton prospect tournaments because of injury and there was no tournament this year. He played in exactly 2 exhibition games this year and had 3 points while looking very good.

Benson is not going to lift you out of your seat since its not his style.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I am curious when these 15 prospect games and preseason games were. Unless I am mistaken Benson never played in the Penticton prospect tournaments because of injury and there was no tournament this year. He played in exactly 2 exhibition games this year and had 3 points while looking very good.

Benson is not going to lift you out of your seat since its not his style.

I wasn't talking just the one season, and the prospects did play the Bears as well as the NaitGmac clubs afairc this season. Benson as I recall was in those games.

I specifically look at Benson in these games because of how touted he is but I'm not seeing any amazing player here. I disagree that Benson looked very good in any of the preseason games. But then I'm inclined to just on the basis of opposition and so that Yamamoto, to me, didn't look good either.

I don't really see how Benson would even fit here. Even Gagner inserted is probably far more prolific depth production option at this level.

That said, and this is perhaps fair, I'm an Oilers fan and so I'm conditioned to think that anything other than premium picks don't end up seeing much of the show here or doing very well at all.

Really I'm hard pressed to think of the last Oilers forward prospect outside of high picks that really amounted to much over the last 3 decades.

Benson's real problem in the org is he's a primary passer in an org that has that one skill attribute more than covered. We need players that can score. It keeps coming back to that. I have all kinds of patience for Currie because he has skill attributes we require here. We don't require what Benson brings.

 

[MettleMcOiler]

Somebody correct me if I am wrong. But Benson seems more like in the mold of a potential elite support player like RNH (not sure if he will reach that) then an impact player with flash. Let me know if I seem offbase with this but that is just the feeling I get from Benson.

 

[Drivesaitl]

With a possible gm coming in june you better get used to the line up on the ice minus a couple of guys. If the guys that are in the bottom get pushed by better players then great im all for that , but i dont see any one knocking down the door . we are winning with the guys there and i expect they will continue to improve as the whole team is trending in the right way.

The team getting some results lately is a result of a really easy segment in the schedule. Even playing some of the worst clubs in the league we are barely getting those results and needed luck and a OT result against the Rangers last night.

This is a really bad Oilers roster that had better be improved.

 

[rickysusedsht]

The team getting some results lately is a result of a really easy segment in the schedule. Even playing some of the worst clubs in the league we are barely getting those results and needed luck and a OT result against the Rangers last night.

This is a really bad Oilers roster that had better be improved.

Crappy competition or not its been nice to see some winning, ill take what i can get. Improving needed absolutely but I have enjoyed the way the team has played as of late.

 

[McTedi]

I wasn't talking just the one season, and the prospects did play the Bears as well as the NaitGmac clubs afairc this season. Benson as I recall was in those games.

I specifically look at Benson in these games because of how touted he is but I'm not seeing any amazing player here. I disagree that Benson looked very good in any of the preseason games. But then I'm inclined to just on the basis of opposition and so that Yamamoto, to me, didn't look good either.

I don't really see how Benson would even fit here. Even Gagner inserted is probably far more prolific depth production option at this level.

That said, and this is perhaps fair, I'm an Oilers fan and so I'm conditioned to think that anything other than premium picks don't end up seeing much of the show here or doing very well at all.

Really I'm hard pressed to think of the last Oilers forward prospect outside of high picks that really amounted to much over the last 3 decades.

Benson's real problem in the org is he's a primary passer in an org that has that one skill attribute more than covered. We need players that can score. It keeps coming back to that. I have all kinds of patience for Currie because he has skill attributes we require here. We don't require what Benson brings.

Ugh...you mean players that generate scoring opportunities. Read a scouting report or two. Yes he passes more than he shoots but he is also the player directly responsible for creating the opportunities. Benson probably would have been drafted mid first round had he not run into injuries. His progression through the minors has been somewhat stalled by his injuries as well. You`re fixing for a gigantic crow sandwich on this kid.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Crappy competition or not its been nice to see some winning, ill take what i can get. Improving needed absolutely but I have enjoyed the way the team has played as of late.

heh, I'm not as optimistic as you. We're barely getting results against hapless clubs and we typically look horrible holding a lead. A recent game an opponent had actually put the puck in a wide open net and then somehow stopped it from going in. We're running an unparalleled string of luck. Otherwise this is a more typical Bettman .500 last 10GP. Hardly any of the results have been convincing.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Ugh...you mean players that generate scoring opportunities. Read a scouting report or two. Yes he passes more than he shoots but he is also the player directly responsible for creating the opportunities. Benson probably would have been drafted mid first round had he not run into injuries. His progression through the minors has been somewhat stalled by his injuries as well. You`re fixing for a gigantic crow sandwich on this kid.

I really doubt it, and the last time I heard that the topic was Yamamoto, or Puljujarvii. At least Pulju has size that I like and can occasionally play a rugged game.

Whens the last time an AHL prospect that was not a high pick came up and did well and surprised me? Caused me to eat crow. Anybody remember an instance.

Where do you figure Benson ends up playing here? 2nd line? When?

 

[frag2]

Ugh...you mean players that generate scoring opportunities. Read a scouting report or two. Yes he passes more than he shoots but he is also the player directly responsible for creating the opportunities. Benson probably would have been drafted mid first round had he not run into injuries. His progression through the minors has been somewhat stalled by his injuries as well. You`re fixing for a gigantic crow sandwich on this kid.

Hes completely disregarding the whole injuries factor that affected his development. He'll create any angle and spin it to suit his argument.

 

[VainGretzky]

reallyno need to comment on Benson till we see him against NHL competition , and his goal scoring reallyhas no bearing as a player I always thought Barzal would have a hard time putting up 20 in the NHL because of his goal scoring in junior , was I ever wrong on that one

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I wasn't talking just the one season, and the prospects did play the Bears as well as the NaitGmac clubs afairc this season. Benson as I recall was in those games.

I specifically look at Benson in these games because of how touted he is but I'm not seeing any amazing player here. I disagree that Benson looked very good in any of the preseason games. But then I'm inclined to just on the basis of opposition and so that Yamamoto, to me, didn't look good either.

I don't really see how Benson would even fit here. Even Gagner inserted is probably far more prolific depth production option at this level.

That said, and this is perhaps fair, I'm an Oilers fan and so I'm conditioned to think that anything other than premium picks don't end up seeing much of the show here or doing very well at all.

Really I'm hard pressed to think of the last Oilers forward prospect outside of high picks that really amounted to much over the last 3 decades.

Benson's real problem in the org is he's a primary passer in an org that has that one skill attribute more than covered. We need players that can score. It keeps coming back to that. I have all kinds of patience for Currie because he has skill attributes we require here. We don't require what Benson brings.

Currie, is also 6 years older than Benson and was a nobody at Bensons age, and a worse hockey player than him right now.

 

[McTedi]

I really doubt it, and the last time I heard that the topic was Yamamoto, or Puljujarvii. At least Pulju has size that I like and can occasionally play a rugged game.

Whens the last time an AHL prospect that was not a high pick came up and did well and surprised me? Caused me to eat crow. Anybody remember an instance.

Where do you figure Benson ends up playing here? 2nd line? When?

I really doubt it, and the last time I heard that the topic was Yamamoto, or Puljujarvii. At least Pulju has size that I like and can occasionally play a rugged game.

Whens the last time an AHL prospect that was not a high pick came up and did well and surprised me? Caused me to eat crow. Anybody remember an instance.

Where do you figure Benson ends up playing here? 2nd line? When?

When you are never wrong in your own mind then who are we to convince you otherwise lol. You ask the right questions of when and how good but you`ve already decided he is a bust despite a really good 1st season as a pro. Maybe keep an open mind on a player and realize it isn`t out of the realm that he could amount to something. This kid was a phenom when he played Bantam and ran into a string of setbacks due to injuries. He isn`t overly big or physical or fast but he has very exceptional hockey sense.

 

[Fourier]

I wasn't talking just the one season, and the prospects did play the Bears as well as the NaitGmac clubs afairc this season. Benson as I recall was in those games.

I specifically look at Benson in these games because of how touted he is but I'm not seeing any amazing player here. I disagree that Benson looked very good in any of the preseason games. But then I'm inclined to just on the basis of opposition and so that Yamamoto, to me, didn't look good either.

I don't really see how Benson would even fit here. Even Gagner inserted is probably far more prolific depth production option at this level.

That said, and this is perhaps fair, I'm an Oilers fan and so I'm conditioned to think that anything other than premium picks don't end up seeing much of the show here or doing very well at all.

Really I'm hard pressed to think of the last Oilers forward prospect outside of high picks that really amounted to much over the last 3 decades.

Benson's real problem in the org is he's a primary passer in an org that has that one skill attribute more than covered. We need players that can score. It keeps coming back to that. I have all kinds of patience for Currie because he has skill attributes we require here. We don't require what Benson brings.

There was no Bears game this year. They killed the Nait-MacEwan combo this year and my memory of this game was that Benson played very well. So I looked up to see if there were any recaps and here is what I found.

Benson shines again
Benson delivered another strong game, setting up the first goal of the game with a nice pass to McLeod for a wide open back door one-timer and then assisting on the 2-0 goal from Jones.
Then, for good measure, he made it 3-0 on a rebound from the doorstep seven minutes into the second period.
Benson distributed the puck extremely well, setting up virtually everyone he was on the ice with for a good look. On one power-play shift he set up Jones and Tyler Vesel (twice) for one-timers in a span of 30 seconds.
The oft-injured Benson, also one of the best players in the opening game of rookie camp, seems to be making up for lost time.

Oilers rookies rout NAIT-MacEwan squad 9-1 in lopsided tilt

It would seem you have made a strong impression in your mind of a player you probably know nothing about. Being skeptical about any prospect's ability to translate their game is one thing. But you are taking this much further making claims about a prospect such as "I disagree that Benson looked good in any exhibition game" based on what it seems would be at best false memories.

I will personally admit that I have not "seen" a lot of Benson, other than some of the few games we are talking about. But what I did do is listen to a fair number of his games on the radio both in juniors and this year. (I actually like listening to hockey on the radio since that is what I grew up with). It can be a tough way to get a sense about some aspects of a players game but it has its plusses. With Benson when you here the phrases like "another great play by Tyler Benson" as much as I did from the mouth of the guy who called the Giant's games you get a decent enough picture of a kid who makes a difference. And when I have had the pleasure to watch him I have seen a lot of the characteristics the I had heard about in his play. This is a kid who was at one point being talked about in the same vein as #1 draft picks who was talented enough to go mid first round in his draft year but was passed over because of injuries. Personally I was very happy with this pick as I wanted either Benson or Debrincat.

I actually agree that Benson is primarily a passer, but that is not all he is. And yes the Oilers need finishers. But he could be a guy who works well with players like Draisaitl and McDavid because he thinks the game at such a high level and both of those two can actually put the puck in the net. Moreover, he is also smart enough to know how to get into a position to score and let these guys find him. IBut he could also be a reliable third liner who works hard and makes the smart play. Time will tell.

 

[Drivesaitl]

When you are never wrong in your own mind then who are we to convince you otherwise lol. You ask the right questions of when and how good but you`ve already decided he is a bust despite a really good 1st season as a pro. Maybe keep an open mind on a player and realize it isn`t out of the realm that he could amount to something. This kid was a phenom when he played Bantam and ran into a string of setbacks due to injuries. He isn`t overly big or physical or fast but he has very exceptional hockey sense.

I think that's unfair. I admit being wrong when I am wrong and its just that not many Oilers, being that its the topic of posting here, have proved me wrong. Koskinen will be a possible one, not sure who else. Generally, the players we have had here that are really good, Like McD, Drai, Nurse, I've been very positive about because they earned that.

I'd feel a lot better about Benson if he had a pass score balance in his offense and if he was more physical, and if he could withstand more physical play.

But honestly you have approached this as some kind of absolute, I will have pie on my face, you are stating that as matter of fact. As if an NHL actuality has already occurred.

There was no Bears game this year. They killed the Nait-MacEwan combo this year and my memory of this game was that Benson played very well. So I looked up to see if there were any recaps and here is what I found.



Oilers rookies rout NAIT-MacEwan squad 9-1 in lopsided tilt

It would seem you have made a strong impression in your mind of a player you probably know nothing about. Being skeptical about any prospect's ability to translate their game is one thing. But you are taking this much further making claims about a prospect such as "I disagree that Benson looked good in any exhibition game" based on what it seems would be at best false memories.

I will personally admit that I have not "seen" a lot of Benson, other than some of the few games we are talking about. But what I did do is listen to a fair number of his games on the radio both in juniors and this year. (I actually like listening to hockey on the radio since that is what I grew up with). It can be a tough way to get a sense about some aspects of a players game but it has its plusses. With Benson when you here the phrases like "another great play by Tyler Benson" as much as I did from the mouth of the guy who called the Giant's games you get a decent enough picture of a kid who makes a difference. And when I have had the pleasure to watch him I have seen a lot of the characteristics the I had heard about in his play. This is a kid who was at one point being talked about in the same vein as #1 draft picks who was talented enough to go mid first round in his draft year but was passed over because of injuries. Personally I was very happy with this pick as I wanted either Benson or Debrincat.

I actually agree that Benson is primarily a passer, but that is not all he is. And yes the Oilers need finishers. But he could be a guy who works well with players like Draisaitl and McDavid because he thinks the game at such a high level and both of those two can actually put the puck in the net. Moreover, he is also smart enough to know how to get into a position to score and let these guys find him. IBut he could also be a reliable third liner who works hard and makes the smart play. Time will tell.

I read the same article, thanks. It refers to Benson played well again(thus suggesting game(s) prior). By my recollection there were 3 prospects games this year. The one against Gmac/Nait and another 2 against other NHL prospects, I believe Winnipeg was one. But theres also scrimmages and interteam prospects games. Btw the result against Gmac/Nait was largely a result of the format, and the Oilers prospects playing a club that was comprised of players from both institutions. There was controversy in retrospect about the game not being against the Bears who are better opponents and for instance who held even McDavid led squad to a close game in 2015.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, I do very much appreciate people actually going into some detail rather than. "he's really good, great vision" type generality.

Heh, radio, I will take you back in time. Being a kid listening to the Edmonton Oil Kings playing the Quebec Remparts in the Memorial cup. Oil Kings had several NHL picked kids. Darcy Rota, Phil Russel, Tom Bladon, Don Kozak, but the Remparts had this amazing kid named Guy Lafleur that was on a whole other level and unstoppable. I'd seen the Kings lots in person, had never seen Guy play a game but the call of the game certainly evoked what Lafleur was capable of and the blazing speed he possessed.

tbh though I feel that radio broadcasts are now vastly inferior to what they once were. Days of Rod Philips etc. I find bias much more evident in todays broadcasts. Back then they could actually tell you Guy Lafleur was great and not have it be a homer broadcast.

Lastly, Debrincat. Not sure what it is, maybe just the way we match up, but I've never seen him play a solid game. I see a smallish player giving the puck up a lot, making ill advised plays, and that doesn't come out on the great end of results against us. Yet there he is PPG and scoring a fair number of goals. But I do think he gives up a lot.

Anyway we're further off topic in an otherwise dead thread.

cheers all

 

[Drivesaitl]

Currie, is also 6 years older than Benson and was a nobody at Bensons age, and a worse hockey player than him right now.

Missed this post.

I know he is, and by no means do I think Currie is a longterm answer either. frankly I think he will have trouble with NHL checking, physicality and coverage. But as a stopgap solution for a few more goals now he's stepped in and looked like filling some of that. I'm only in Curries corner presently because he has a potential toolkit we need.

In anycase if I seem awfully jaded in terms of prospects (damn I am) its because of forward prospects that are not high picks being nothing here for decades. One can only endure so many Bonsignors and Hulbigs until one wants to avert their eyes and not buy in to hope. Most people here love following prospects. I generally don't with this org, and due to the org. So that you will NEVER see me in any of those threads. Which is cool, I guess, to those that don't like my posting.

But the other part I've always felt is that this org is too prospect reliant. To the point that they want to forcefeed too many youngish players into the blender all the time. I'm much more a fan of Vet club builds like Vegas. The ease at which we acquired Sam Gagner, for instance is illustrative in that clubs with our kind of Nucleus and core can go out and just get NHL vets that have a lot of experience and that are plug and play at this level. THOSE additions can do a lot to improve the club. We've also missed having many players in Gagner and Nuge age range that are the age cohort glue in most NHL lineups. Competitive teams need MORE players between age 25-30 that are buying in. Without which there is no team cohesion on ice or otherwise.. We're on the McDrai time clock, we need guys that can play and fit in here now and immediately. I don't get thrilled at all at futures at this point. Theres other reasons for that.

 

[dssource]

Great OT winner by Drai. I thought the team played well down 1 D for the majority of the game and 2 for a small part. Sekera is so calm and cool out there. The team game has definitely changed with him back in the lineup.

McDrai carried the load again, but they know that's the way it's going to be if they are going to will us into a playoff spot.

On to the next! Keep it rolling.

 

[rickysusedsht]

heh, I'm not as optimistic as you. We're barely getting results against hapless clubs and we typically look horrible holding a lead. A recent game an opponent had actually put the puck in a wide open net and then somehow stopped it from going in. We're running an unparalleled string of luck. Otherwise this is a more typical Bettman .500 last 10GP. Hardly any of the results have been convincing.

No not near as optimistic , I know the season is probably a loss but being a Debby downer over wins....really? Your that guy in the crowd....boo for wins boo for goals boo this guy blows ..boo this team sucks haha . Anyway season almost done and i hope for more wins as the last 10 games has been fun and that can't be said much around here this year

 

[Aerrol]

So is that a no on the 50 NHL games for Benson bet @Drivesaitl ?

 

[Fourier]

Heh, radio, I will take you back in time. Being a kid listening to the Edmonton Oil Kings playing the Quebec Remparts in the Memorial cup. Oil Kings had several NHL picked kids. Darcy Rota, Phil Russel, Tom Bladon, Don Kozak, but the Remparts had this amazing kid named Guy Lafleur that was on a whole other level and unstoppable. I'd seen the Kings lots in person, had never seen Guy play a game but the call of the game certainly evoked what Lafleur was capable of and the blazing speed he possessed.

I went to Oil King games a lot as a kid as lived about a 10 minute walk from the Gardens. $.25C when we paid but lots of times we got in for free because we knew half the staff working at the games. I remember listening to every minute of that series and particularly the first game where Lafleur just destroyed the Oil Kings. I was a huge Habs fan as a kid so I was thrilled when they got Lafleur.

 

[Drivesaitl]

So is that a no on the 50 NHL games for Benson bet @Drivesaitl ?

Oh I'll take the bet. I'm opinionated, and sometimes wrong, but I'll stand by my word on it.