Latest on the Arizona Coyotes Arena ordeal

[HamiltonNHL]

It looks like a Dexcom transmitter.

especially the G6

 

[Dr Pepper]

The team should have a lot of things.

Not played in Footprint Center PHX Arena Talking Stick Report Arena US Airways Center America West Arena for 7 1/2 years. Not signed a deal that forfeited pretty much all in-arena revenues at AWA outside of tickets. Not had inept owners largely focused on real estate with the team thrown in. Not been sold to a more inept owner who was more focused on real estate. Not been dragged into bankruptcy. Not had another owner who burned bridges by skimping on paying bills. Not screwed the pooch with Glendale. Not spent much of the last 12 seasons mired in the bottom third of the league. Not had a GM who got the job because he knowz all about teh analytics! who was woefully incompetent and cost the team a 1st-round pick because he ignored rules re: physical testing of prospects. Lots of other stuff.

It's been a list of "everything you should not do when running a professional organization" and some of that stuff still would have happened if the team had been in Hamilton, or Quebec City, or Hartford, or Houston, or Salt Lake City, or anywhere else. Location wouldn't have fixed gross incompetence, which has plagued the organization for way too long.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like it's been mentioned a few times in this thread that it isn't Bettman who has final say on these things but the rest of the league's owners, collectively.

Would it then be safe to say, then, that these same owners were the same ones who gave the old "green-light" to every mistep you just listed, plus the added super-fun reality of playing in a 5,000-seat arena for who knows how long?

 

[x Tame Impala]

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They should play in Quebec City until this hypothetical arena is built in 2028

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like it's been mentioned a few times in this thread that it isn't Bettman who has final say on these things but the rest of the league's owners, collectively.

Would it then be safe to say, then, that these same owners were the same ones who gave the old "green-light" to every mistep you just listed, plus the added super-fun reality of playing in a 5,000-seat arena for who knows how long?

If you want to make a grandiose assumption like it appears you're eager to do, sure. In reality, the owners green-lighted:

* The sale of the franchise to Steven Gluckstern and Richard Burke [with Jerry Coangelo having a minor stake]
* Moving the team from Winnipeg to Phoenix
* Burke selling the team to Steve Ellman [with Gretzky as a minority owner]
* Ellman selling the team to Jerry Moyes [with Gretzky still as a minority owner]
* Bettman intervening in the Coyotes bankruptcy filing [which, as I've said a number of times, was endorsed by the NFL, NBA and MLB for pretty obvious reasons]
* Every purchase and sale of the team since the NHL bought the team out of bankruptcy

And I believe it had to grant Meruelo permission to play at ASU in the near-term because of NHL rules regarding minimum allowable arena sizes.

The BoG didn't decide to sign shitty leases, run the team into the ground, move the team to playing in Glendale, hire a 'whiz kid" for GM, or a bunch of other stuff I noted - nor, would it have ever had any power to intervene in any of that because that's all under the discretion granted to each owner to operate his or her team has he or she deems appropriate, so long as such decisions don't violate the terms and conditions by which each team operates under the NHL Constitution.

 

[dj4aces]

View attachment 838800

Call it The Motorola Center, because it looks like my first bluetooth earpiece.

For serious though, it's certainly an interesting design.

 

[moosemeister]

Call it The Motorola Center, because it looks like my first bluetooth earpiece.

For serious though, it's certainly an interesting design.

Goodwill Arena, on the corner of Quebec Ave and Salt Lake Boulevard.

 

[Dr Pepper]

If you want to make a grandiose assumption like it appears you're eager to do, sure. In reality, the owners green-lighted:

* The sale of the franchise to Steven Gluckstern and Richard Burke [with Jerry Coangelo having a minor stake]
* Moving the team from Winnipeg to Phoenix
* Burke selling the team to Steve Ellman [with Gretzky as a minority owner]
* Ellman selling the team to Jerry Moyes [with Gretzky still as a minority owner]
* Bettman intervening in the Coyotes bankruptcy filing [which, as I've said a number of times, was endorsed by the NFL, NBA and MLB for pretty obvious reasons]
* Every purchase and sale of the team since the NHL bought the team out of bankruptcy

And I believe it had to grant Meruelo permission to play at ASU in the near-term because of NHL rules regarding minimum allowable arena sizes.

The BoG didn't decide to sign shitty leases, run the team into the ground, move the team to playing in Glendale, hire a 'whiz kid" for GM, or a bunch of other stuff I noted - nor, would it have ever had any power to intervene in any of that because that's all under the discretion granted to each owner to operate his or her team has he or she deems appropriate, so long as such decisions don't violate the terms and conditions by which each team operates under the NHL Constitution.

What "grandiose assumption"?

I just took note of the list of things you had said, namely the shitty owners (Burke, Coalangelo, Ellman, Moyes, etc.), and asked if the other owners from around the league were also privy to this information.

Based off your latest response, it would appear that they were. :

We're agreeing that the Coyotes have been horrendously mismanaged, for a long time now, by a clown parade of bad owners. I'm just surprised the league OK'd it, that's all. Hopefully there are sunny days ahead.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

What "grandiose assumption"?

Would it then be safe to say, then, that these same owners were the same ones who gave the old "green-light" to every mistep you just listed, plus the added super-fun reality of playing in a 5,000-seat arena for who knows how long?

Because ... not every misstep I listed had to do with merely approving owners. And, not every misstep required BoG approval. But I've read your posts over time; you're smart, you're well informed, and given your past posts you're pretty obviously lobbing red herrings and straw men.

Or maybe you're "just asking questions." Or, maybe you have secret insight into the future actions of what someone will do in a given position - which, if you do, there are a f***ing shitload of companies ready and willing to pay your a f***ing shitload of money for your insight.

I just took note of the list of things you had said, namely the shitty owners (Burke, Coalangelo, Ellman, Moyes, etc.), and asked if the other owners from around the league were also privy to this information.

The NFL has David Tepper as an owner. OK'd him with much fanfare, after original owner Jerry Richardson had to sell the team for sexual and racial harassment in the team's workplace. He's already showing he's a goddamn disaster as an owner. Pretty sure nothing in his background suggested he'd be this f***ing bad. [Just like I'm pretty sure nothing in Richardson's background suggested he was a serial sexual / racial harrasser, or would become one.] The NFL can't do a f***ing thing about it until he runs afoul of league rules.

The NFL had Dan Snyder as an owner. OK'd him, zero questions asked. What Snyder did to the Redskins Washington Football Team Commanders franchise is well-known. I'm pretty sure nothing in Snyder's background suggested he'd do the shit he did and run one of the league's premier franchises into the ground out of spite and whatever dollar or change he could squeeze out of anyone.

If the NFL wasn't privy to that information, I don't know what makes you think the NHL or any other pro league is going to be privy to how shitty an owner is going to be down the road when none of the available information suggests it.

 

[archangel2]

Until they break ground on another arena I wont hold my breath. Over the past 30 years we have had so many stops and starts with this teams. It gets annoying.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Because ... not every misstep I listed had to do with merely approving owners. And, not every misstep required BoG approval. But I've read your posts over time; you're smart, you're well informed, and given your past posts you're pretty obviously lobbing red herrings and straw men.

Or maybe you're "just asking questions." Or, maybe you have secret insight into the future actions of what someone will do in a given position - which, if you do, there are a f***ing shitload of companies ready and willing to pay your a f***ing shitload of money for your insight.


The NFL has David Tepper as an owner. OK'd him with much fanfare, after original owner Jerry Richardson had to sell the team for sexual and racial harassment in the team's workplace. He's already showing he's a goddamn disaster as an owner. Pretty sure nothing in his background suggested he'd be this f***ing bad. [Just like I'm pretty sure nothing in Richardson's background suggested he was a serial sexual / racial harrasser, or would become one.] The NFL can't do a f***ing thing about it until he runs afoul of league rules.

The NFL had Dan Snyder as an owner. OK'd him, zero questions asked. What Snyder did to the Redskins Washington Football Team Commanders franchise is well-known. I'm pretty sure nothing in Snyder's background suggested he'd do the shit he did and run one of the league's premier franchises into the ground out of spite and whatever dollar or change he could squeeze out of anyone.

If the NFL wasn't privy to that information, I don't know what makes you think the NHL or any other pro league is going to be privy to how shitty an owner is going to be down the road when none of the available information suggests it.

If only, eh?

And I'm just basing my posts off what I see in here, what gets reported/refuted, etc.

This is the story that just refuses to die.

Also, re: that last part: the NHL sniffed out Jim Balsillie pretty damn quickly, didn't they? Barely got a foot in the door before he was kicked to the curb.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Prob be in Mullet for another 4-5 yeara. Next year cause they can't move quick. Then the Yotes win the auction, then it's 3-4 years construction.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like it's been mentioned a few times in this thread that it isn't Bettman who has final say on these things but the rest of the league's owners, collectively.

Would it then be safe to say, then, that these same owners were the same ones who gave the old "green-light" to every mistep you just listed, plus the added super-fun reality of playing in a 5,000-seat arena for who knows how long?

I always kind of hate this talking point.

on the one hand, yes. Gary Bettman is not a king or dictator. He doesn't get to just order the other owners around. And yes all those key decisions are made at the Board of Directors level.

But on the other hand - Gary has been Commissioner for over 30 years. Hell they made the position of Commissioner just for him (before that the NHL had Presidents). He's been the Commissioner for longer than almost all of the owners have owned their teams. He knows where the bodies are buried, he knows who owes him favours.

Beyond that - the 32 owners are mostly just concerned about their own teams and franchises. To the extent they think about the Coyotes they're probably mostly happy for someone else (Bettman/Daly) to deal with them.

 

[tucker3434]

I always kind of hate this talking point.

on the one hand, yes. Gary Bettman is not a king or dictator. He doesn't get to just order the other owners around. And yes all those key decisions are made at the Board of Directors level.

But on the other hand - Gary has been Commissioner for over 30 years. Hell they made the position of Commissioner just for him (before that the NHL had Presidents). He's been the Commissioner for longer than almost all of the owners have owned their teams. He knows where the bodies are buried, he knows who owes him favours.

Beyond that - the 32 owners are mostly just concerned about their own teams and franchises. To the extent they think about the Coyotes they're probably mostly happy for someone else (Bettman/Daly) to deal with them.

They’re concerned about the Yotes to the extend it impacts their own team’s valuation. They’d all be a little better off if the Yotes aren’t sold at a rock bottom price and relocated. That couldn’t be great for expansion fees either.

It does need a resolution though. In retrospect, they probably would’ve preferred that they moved 10 years ago and could be inching closer towards another expansion franchise there.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

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what is the function of that weird design? bigger oval is the rink is guess, what's the other part?

 

[Yukon Joe]

what is the function of that weird design? bigger oval is the rink is guess, what's the other part?

I'm guessing a practice rink / smaller concert venue.

They’re concerned about the Yotes to the extend it impacts their own team’s valuation. They’d all be a little better off if the Yotes aren’t sold at a rock bottom price and relocated. That couldn’t be great for expansion fees either.

It does need a resolution though. In retrospect, they probably would’ve preferred that they moved 10 years ago and could be inching closer towards another expansion franchise there.

Of course they're concerned. Probably concerned enough to grill Bettman about what's going on. But not concerned enough to try and force a sale against the comissioner's preference.

 

[Coffey]

Imagine if Gary allowed the Thrashers, Nordiques or old-Jets to play in a college barn.

Just imagine.

 

[tucker3434]

I'm guessing a practice rink / smaller concert venue.



Of course they're concerned. Probably concerned enough to grill Bettman about what's going on. But not concerned enough to try and force a sale against the comissioner's preference.

I would just be surprised if they aren’t aligned on this issue since it is kind of a big thing. Bettman himself doesn’t have any huge need to keep the team in Phoenix. He gets to play the villain, but ultimately, he benefits when the owners benefit.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Imagine if Gary allowed the Thrashers, Nordiques or old-Jets to play in a college barn.

Just imagine.

Thrashers owners ASG just wanted to get rid of the team.

Quebec Nordiques - owner was concerned about losing money in the current league economics. There was no prospect he could see where the Nords would continue to be profitable.

Jets - they had new ownership ready to go, and a plan to build a new arena. The problem was they couldn't square the circle to figure out how to fund the team's losses until a new arena was built.

In none of those scenarios would playing in a college barn (if one even existed) would help.

 

[Coffey]

Thrashers owners ASG just wanted to get rid of the team.

Quebec Nordiques - owner was concerned about losing money in the current league economics. There was no prospect he could see where the Nords would continue to be profitable.

Jets - they had new ownership ready to go, and a plan to build a new arena. The problem was they couldn't square the circle to figure out how to fund the team's losses until a new arena was built.

In none of those scenarios would playing in a college barn (if one even existed) would help.

I prefer you don't destroy my narrative, Joe.

 

[FU Shoresy]

That couldn’t be great for expansion fees either.

This right here is the reason Bettman & the owners. Continues to pound that square peg in the round hole.

 

[rt]

what is the function of that weird design? bigger oval is the rink is guess, what's the other part?

A second, smaller arena. For community ice, team practice, and smaller events.

 

[123TripleDoge]

Just get it done.

 

[Rpenny]

You're not a Coyotes fan yet this "tires you out"? Do you work for the Meruelo or the BOG or something? I'm wondering why you stress over this. Like, I get you have your own opinions, but enough to make you tired? Probably best to focus your energy elsewhere.

What part of hockey fan are you people not getting. 30 years of distraction, 30 years of false starts, 30 years of endless promises and 30 years of media reporting in the same subject.

 

[ItWasJustified]

Prob be in Mullet for another 4-5 yeara. Next year cause they can't move quick. Then the Yotes win the auction, then it's 3-4 years construction.

And how much money would the players and the league as a whole have lost by then? An absolutely enormous sum of money. This is the real reason to why expansion will be a reality within 4 seasons. The owners have to get more money somehow and why not water down the league even more while getting to share 2 billion dollars?

Jets - they had new ownership ready to go, and a plan to build a new arena. The problem was they couldn't square the circle to figure out how to fund the team's losses until a new arena was built.

The league could've taken ownership of the Jets, for let's say...4 years, until the new arena would've been built.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

What part of hockey fan are you people not getting. 30 years of distraction, 30 years of false starts, 30 years of endless promises and 30 years of media reporting in the same subject.

You act like this is some major geopolitical war. It hasn't been a distraction since 2011, and the national media has barely discussed it up until a couple months ago.