Confirmed with Link: Larsen and Legace relieved of duties

[Monk]

True. But he still won 3 Cups and got fired.

Had Bowman not stupidly traded Panarin for Saad, Jarmo would probably have zero playoff series wins on his CBJ resume. It's been a 10 year run worthy of dismissal no matter how you cut it.

Didn't Bowman resign after it came out that he helped cover up the sexual assault?

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

Can people stop talking like it's going to be 20-21 all over again with the new coach. Jarmo couldn't find anyone close to Torts even if he tried, so unless Jarmo plans on re-hiring him, things wont be anywhere close to what they were with Torts.

 

[thebus88]

You and I completely agree that the roster as constructed is complete crap. But I would like to see you a bit more vocal about the individual(s) responsible for this roster. You like to put a lot of blame on the players but unless I'm mistaken you've been mostly silent on this subject.

I’m not just some blind hater of randomly selected CBJ players for unrelated to CBJ hockey related reasons, like some around here would like to pass off. The “hate” I have had for any of the players in the past or currently, have been because of what I thought their impact was on the CBJ team winning games. My opinions on these (or my “favorite”) players have been expressed in different ways, based on how I feel other CBJ fans, or “consensus”, feels towards a certain player or subject.

It’s simply much easier to evaluate (and make judgements on) the ability or impact that a player is making on the ice, and unlike many other fans who seemingly treat any teams GM/Jarmo as if it’s an EA Sports video game where they can do whatever they want, I understand there’s an almost unlimited amount of factors, many behind the scenes that we aren’t privy to, that completely change or limit what a guy can or can’t do.

I was completely behind Jarmo/JD and their “coalition” with Torts, MUCH MORESO than most around here. Because I respect or ENJOY a 2-1 win much more so than most around here. It’s also why I continue to bring him up to this day, and find it hilarious it is all now relevant once again. It’s not as if I agreed with every roster move or contract signed by Jarmo, or every coaching decision made by Torts, but, the way they had that roster built and playing under Torts was “beautiful”, for a lot longer than people give them credit for.

What I literally can’t believe is how they can seemingly take all the “hard work” over half a decade or so, and change the entire mindset THAT BROUGHT SUCCESS TO THE FRANCHISE, almost “overnight”. The players they have brought in and signed to contracts to “build around” the last few years have been horrendous. Even if the “old core” was “aging out”, they could have continued to build behind that “blue collar/hard work/underdog” mindset, that COULD have morphed into “Safe is Death” when the roster composition allowed for it to be SUCCESSFUL, as it WAS in the past.

But, again, as I’ve ranted about the last 2-3 years, THIS IS WHAT THE COLUMBUS FANS/“5th line” WANTED AND ASKED FOR!!

No more “bubble team”, no more “boring low scoring games”, no more “mediocre”. Record breaking goal numbers, back to back years!! Elite at something!!

You guys who were sick and tired of winning games all year, losing many other close games, and making the playoffs, got EXACTLY what you asked for.

 

[blahblah]

But, again, as I’ve ranted about the last 2-3 years, THIS IS WHAT THE COLUMBUS FANS/“5th line” WANTED AND ASKED FOR!!

No more “bubble team”, no more “boring low scoring games”, no more “mediocre”. Record breaking goal numbers, back to back years!! Elite at something!!

You guys who were sick and tired of winning games all year, losing many other close games, and making the playoffs, got EXACTLY what you asked for.

Of course, the question is was it the fans/5th line wanted and asked for or was this just a impression left by posting on these forums? I admit I haven't paid much attention to hockey since the plague came up in 2020. Having said that, previously I haven't found "the fans" all the in-tune to things like this. Like in all sports, the fans seem to want to win of course. However, "the fans" didn't seem to be all that knowledgeable about the sport and the workings of the franchise.

I've seen no evidence, in the past, that the majority of fans would have been all that upset if we backed our way into the playoffs.

Just, on the surface, replacing Torts with Larsen didn't seem like the best decision. Truthfully, I have no idea how things even went down.

I mainly watched some highlights and took the occasional look at the roster stats this season, I have other things that are much more of a priority these days. From what I saw and reasearched something did need to change. What I said about Torts back a few years ago, I stand by. He's a decent coach that can reliably get you into the playoffs. If you want to a win a Cup, he's probably not your best choice. The premise would be, that if you were going to replace him you would upgrade. In this case, I would have waited until the right veteran coach became available. I've seen some suggestions that it was mutual between the CBJ and Torts. I have no idea if this is the case. So there might have been less options available.

I see no reason, however, to condemn each other. We have no power to make change in the organization. We don't have the knowledge of the internal workings of the team.. We also don't have the experience nor knowledge of the game. From my time of posting before, I needed to toss my pride out the window, We all need a bit of humility.

It's fun to speculate about what we would do, but ultimately we shouldn't take ourselves and our opinions all that seriously.

 

[Jovavic]

I knew he was in the organization for awhile but 13 years?

 

[NotWendell]

I’m not just some blind hater of randomly selected CBJ players for unrelated to CBJ hockey related reasons, like some around here would like to pass off. The “hate” I have had for any of the players in the past or currently, have been because of what I thought their impact was on the CBJ team winning games. My opinions on these (or my “favorite”) players have been expressed in different ways, based on how I feel other CBJ fans, or “consensus”, feels towards a certain player or subject.

It’s simply much easier to evaluate (and make judgements on) the ability or impact that a player is making on the ice, and unlike many other fans who seemingly treat any teams GM/Jarmo as if it’s an EA Sports video game where they can do whatever they want, I understand there’s an almost unlimited amount of factors, many behind the scenes that we aren’t privy to, that completely change or limit what a guy can or can’t do.

I was completely behind Jarmo/JD and their “coalition” with Torts, MUCH MORESO than most around here. Because I respect or ENJOY a 2-1 win much more so than most around here. It’s also why I continue to bring him up to this day, and find it hilarious it is all now relevant once again. It’s not as if I agreed with every roster move or contract signed by Jarmo, or every coaching decision made by Torts, but, the way they had that roster built and playing under Torts was “beautiful”, for a lot longer than people give them credit for.

What I literally can’t believe is how they can seemingly take all the “hard work” over half a decade or so, and change the entire mindset THAT BROUGHT SUCCESS TO THE FRANCHISE, almost “overnight”. The players they have brought in and signed to contracts to “build around” the last few years have been horrendous. Even if the “old core” was “aging out”, they could have continued to build behind that “blue collar/hard work/underdog” mindset, that COULD have morphed into “Safe is Death” when the roster composition allowed for it to be SUCCESSFUL, as it WAS in the past.

But, again, as I’ve ranted about the last 2-3 years, THIS IS WHAT THE COLUMBUS FANS/“5th line” WANTED AND ASKED FOR!!

No more “bubble team”, no more “boring low scoring games”, no more “mediocre”. Record breaking goal numbers, back to back years!! Elite at something!!

You guys who were sick and tired of winning games all year, losing many other close games, and making the playoffs, got EXACTLY what you asked for.

This rant is a red herring and not germane to the current (sorry) state of the franchise. If the org is doing only what fans on a message board are wanting and asking for, they need to be fired immediately and replaced with people who know way more than us. No, it has actually been shaped to Jarmo's vision, going back to the middle of the Torts era.

 

[Monstershockey]

This rant is a red herring and not germane to the current (sorry) state of the franchise. If the org is doing only what fans on a message board are wanting and asking for, they need to be fired immediately and replaced with people who know way more than us. No, it has actually been shaped to Jarmo's vision, going back to the middle of the Torts era.

I doubt the franchise is doing what fans are asking for, it just fell in line with what fans wanted. People were tired of physical, grind it out hockey, where a team was tough to play against. They wanted the franchise to go more for high skilled players that could dazzle us with their no look passes and Michigan goals, at the expence of good solid defensive play. They just happened to do that, and this is the result. If we didn't have all the injuries and our record was similar to last year, it would be thought we were on our way. Injuries happened, exposed the lack of depth, lack of defense, and sub par goaltending. Now we were able to tank and people are awaiting their savior, and hoping the defensive players we are bringing up are good, even though the forwards still aren't very good defensively.

 

[JacketsDavid]

I doubt the franchise is doing what fans are asking for, it just fell in line with what fans wanted. People were tired of physical, grind it out hockey, where a team was tough to play against. They wanted the franchise to go more for high skilled players that could dazzle us with their no look passes and Michigan goals, at the expence of good solid defensive play. They just happened to do that, and this is the result. If we didn't have all the injuries and our record was similar to last year, it would be thought we were on our way. Injuries happened, exposed the lack of depth, lack of defense, and sub par goaltending. Now we were able to tank and people are awaiting their savior, and hoping the defensive players we are bringing up are good, even though the forwards still aren't very good defensively.

Not to dispute what you are saying at all.
I remember during Hitch's tenure with some PSL holder event before the season they did a sit down with Howson and Hitch and Howson was going on and on about how they were shaping the team to be a Hitch team. This was shortly after their first playoff appearance.
THe next year was when all the CBJ young kids thought they could win by scoring a lot of goals and not playinf D. Anyways Hitch was fired that next season.
At least for a brief moment in time (and it has happened a few other times) when the CBJ knew who they wanted to be - in that case a heavy, hard to play against team. But owership was led astray by some young players who wanted to do it their way.

That being said I'm sure since TOrts was let go (or while being let go) the CBJ powers that be wanted to emulate what Las Vegas or Colorado was doing. I just think they probably learned you need a coach that understands that wide open system, and it can't be done just by adding a bunch of good skating dmen who don't really play defense, having them backed up bu a goalie witha cool name and socail media following and a group of forwards with little interest in playing in the defensive zone either. Then again I'm just a random poster on this board - I'm jusre Jarmo and JD assumed that would work...

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

While there may be kernels of truth in the “fans wanted a different style of hockey” line of discussion, it’s built on the faulty premise that a more dynamic offensive approach necessarily means crappy defense.

 

[Viqsi]

True. But he still won 3 Cups and got fired.

He resigned (wasn't fired) because he decided to pretend that one of his staff wasn't diddling kids and so let him leave and continue to diddle kids elsewhere. I'd like to believe that qualifies as an exceptional situation.

Also, seriously, what the f*** is it lately with people here handwaving that situation as though it doesn't matter? First the "no, really, hiring Quenneville is the only option" garbage and now this. What's next, a push to sign Jonathan "they're good people despite covering up sexual assault" Toews?

 

[VT]

Pravda. Ale aj tak vyhral 3 poháre a dostal padáka.

Keby Bowman hlúpo nevymenil Panarina za Saada, Jarmo by mal vo svojom životopise CBJ pravdepodobne nulové víťazstvá v sérii play-off. Bola to 10-ročná jazda hodná prepustenia bez ohľadu na to, ako ste to prerušili.

And? Again except Hossa these players played in Chicago BEFORE Stan Bowman as GM. Btw it happens Joel Queneville too.

 

[Byrral]

But, again, as I’ve ranted about the last 2-3 years, THIS IS WHAT THE COLUMBUS FANS/“5th line” WANTED AND ASKED FOR!!

No more “bubble team”, no more “boring low scoring games”, no more “mediocre”. Record breaking goal numbers, back to back years!! Elite at something!!

You guys who were sick and tired of winning games all year, losing many other close games, and making the playoffs, got EXACTLY what you asked for.

Kool. Thanks.

As far as the above:

Someone else mentioned this in an earlier post that the above was a "wish/want/ask" that was talked about on HFBoards. The game has changed to a younger, faster, up tempo, high scoring game. And while some here wanted to see the team go to a more up tempo style of hockey I doubt anyone wanted to completely eliminate any form of the defensive discipline that Torts established when he was here. Only Jarmo knows why this roster morphed completely away from that and into what it is today.

Most fans probably don't care what type of hockey style the team plays. They just want them to win.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Didn't Bowman resign after it came out that he helped cover up the sexual assault?

I think that you are correct. That being said, the overarching point is that many GMs with far superior records/accomplishments have been fired with tenures as long as or in many cases shorter than Jarmo's.

 

[Monk]

I think that you are correct. That being said, the overarching point is that many GMs with far superior records/accomplishments have been fired with tenures as long as or in many cases shorter than Jarmo's.

I mean yeah, the winningest NHL coaches and GMs of all time have been and will be fired/resign at some point.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I mean yeah, the winningest NHL coaches and GMs of all time have been and will be fired/resign at some point.

And those with Jarmo's resume rarely (never?) get 10+ years on the job. Name a GM in recent NHL history (last 25 years) whose record is similar to Jarmo's first 10 years who got to continue into decade #2 on the job.

 

[Monk]

And those with Jarmo's resume rarely (never?) get 10+ years on the job. Name a GM in recent NHL history (last 25 years) whose record is similar to Jarmo's first 10 years who got to continue into decade #2 on the job.

Meh. It's just an overly simple argument that I don't find convincing, that's all.

There are other, specific reasons folks have to fire Jarmo that make way more sense to me. I don't really care what other teams have done, especially when so void of context.

 

[Ice9]

I dont hate Jarmo but it may be one of those "how deep does the rot go" (or how high) situations. If the organization had thought it was his time he probably wouldn't have made it through the trade deadline. You sure don't let it get too deep into the draft period.

Its been said and is correct that the effective period of a player, coach, GM is only so long and then its time to jettison and rethink your organizations position. He's been ok and I'm ok with him trying to get out of this. I do think this is this cats ninth life though. The organization needs to keep aware of up and comers or grooming someone.

 

[squashmaple]

Meh. It's just an overly simple argument that I don't find convincing, that's all.

There are other, specific reasons folks have to fire Jarmo that make way more sense to me. I don't really care what other teams have done, especially when so void of context.

The time to fire Jarmo was in 2020 before this current rebuild began. He probably shouldn't have gotten the chance to build again. But the team chose not to fire him, because there were extenuating circumstances between all the FA in 2019 choosing to leave, PLD being PLD, and the pandemic.

Regardless, it's foolish to fire him now, partway into rebuild attempt two. That's how Buffalo ended up spinning its tires in suck for a decade, because they kept getting impatient and cutting off rebuilds at the knees by firing GMs too early in the process. You don't change directions mid-stream. If this current rebuild attempt is still going nowhere when his contract is up in two years, you just don't renew him and thank him for his service. I personally have faith in what it looks like they're building, but right now, the kids are still kids. Two years is enough time to see if KJ, Chinakhov, Marchenko, and Jiricek were building blocks or failures.

 

[traffic cone]

This roster can’t afford a question mark

This roster has 0% chance of going all the way if they just use the same type of coach every other team has.

 

[Monk]

The time to fire Jarmo was in 2020 before this current rebuild began. He probably shouldn't have gotten the chance to build again. But the team chose not to fire him, because there were extenuating circumstances between all the FA in 2019 choosing to leave, PLD being PLD, and the pandemic.

Regardless, it's foolish to fire him now, partway into rebuild attempt two. That's how Buffalo ended up spinning its tires in suck for a decade, because they kept getting impatient and cutting off rebuilds at the knees by firing GMs too early in the process. You don't change directions mid-stream. If this current rebuild attempt is still going nowhere when his contract is up in two years, you just don't renew him and thank him for his service. I personally have faith in what it looks like they're building, but right now, the kids are still kids. Two years is enough time to see if KJ, Chinakhov, Marchenko, and Jiricek were building blocks or failures.

Agreed.

 

[koteka]

The time to fire Jarmo was in 2020 before this current rebuild began. He probably shouldn't have gotten the chance to build again. But the team chose not to fire him, because there were extenuating circumstances between all the FA in 2019 choosing to leave, PLD being PLD, and the pandemic.

Regardless, it's foolish to fire him now, partway into rebuild attempt two. That's how Buffalo ended up spinning its tires in suck for a decade, because they kept getting impatient and cutting off rebuilds at the knees by firing GMs too early in the process. You don't change directions mid-stream. If this current rebuild attempt is still going nowhere when his contract is up in two years, you just don't renew him and thank him for his service. I personally have faith in what it looks like they're building, but right now, the kids are still kids. Two years is enough time to see if KJ, Chinakhov, Marchenko, and Jiricek were building blocks or failures.

Or, when you interview potential replacements, you ask questions to figure out what they would do. Ask what kind of team they want to build and what style they want to play. Ask which current players fit their style. Ask which players they think they would keep and which players they would be open to moving and players they would definitely be looking to move. If the guy says “Jarmo is a good drafter and I really like guys like KJ, Jiricek, and Marchenko, but I don’t know that Roslovic is a fit, and the defense needs to be rebuilt with more thought to defensive ability than offensive ability. You can fit one of Mateychuk and Boqvist on a team that I am running, but not both of them. So, without doing more in depth research which I certainly would be doing, my first step might be…” then you wouldnt exactly be killing what Jarmo started.

 

[Ice9]

Or, when you interview potential replacements, you ask questions to figure out what they would do. Ask what kind of team they want to build and what style they want to play. Ask which current players fit their style. Ask which players they think they would keep and which players they would be open to moving and players they would definitely be looking to move. If the guy says “Jarmo is a good drafter and I really like guys like KJ, Jiricek, and Marchenko, but I don’t know that Roslovic is a fit, and the defense needs to be rebuilt with more thought to defensive ability than offensive ability. You can fit one of Mateychuk and Boqvist on a team that I am running, but not both of them. So, without doing more in depth research which I certainly would be doing, my first step might be…” then you wouldnt exactly be killing what Jarmo started.

Just like my coaching days. Id step on the ice and just observe the guys. (new kids almost every year) Were they small and fast? Were they big, tough and slower? Were they a good mix? I was ready to coach two or three different styles every year depending on the squad. But you sure can't coach a fast style with guys who have cinder blocks as feet or vice versa and you can't force it! GM has to know what he wants and then find a coach who is on the same page and actually capable of coaching that style. Sometimes I feel that that is not happening here. Maybe I'm wrong...

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Meh. It's just an overly simple argument that I don't find convincing, that's all.

There are other, specific reasons folks have to fire Jarmo that make way more sense to me. I don't really care what other teams have done, especially when so void of context.

It's actually a pretty simple evaluation grid for a GM. Get to the playoffs and win and/or develop a team which is clearly going to start to excel. Jarmo has one standard playoff series win in 10 years. In the absence of Stan Bowman's incredibly poor judgement of trading for Saad and giving up Panarin, Jarmo might well be at zero.

The CBJ are not sitting on a roster/prospects of such high quality that they're about to have a meteoric rise in performance. The forward corps is mediocre, the defensemen below average and the goaltending isn't even of NHL caliber.

If you view the past 3 seasons and likely several more that will be similar as an acceptable standard for a GM in the NHL who has over a decade on the job, then it's pretty clear that your performance standards for a GM are lower than most. That's OK. It's certainly OK with CBJ ownership and they're the only ones who matter on this issue.

 

[Monk]

It's actually a pretty simple evaluation grid for a GM.

Right, that's basically my problem with it. Read squashmaple's post above if you want my opinion, she basically nailed it.

This binary results-only perspective just doesn't really have much merit in my eyes. That being said, it's also basically the only real objective information we have as fans, so I get why & how it happens.

I know I'm not going to change your mind, I'm just expressing some "meh" on this because this overly-simple (IMO) argument has been swirling a lot lately - understandably given their standings finish.

So in closing:

Meh.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Right, that's basically my problem with it. Read squashmaple's post above if you want my opinion, he basically nailed it.

This binary results-only perspective just doesn't really have much merit in my eyes. That being said, it's also basically the only real objective information we have as fans, so I get why & how it happens.

I know I'm not going to change your mind, I'm just expressing some "meh" on this because this overly-simple (IMO) argument has been swirling a lot lately - understandably given their standings finish.

So in closing:

Meh.

Meh back at ya. LOL. Have a good one!