Lars Eller - The Adventure Continues...

[LyricalLyricist]

GDTs are a weird place to look.

Keep in mind the majority of hf Montreal said Eller is not a top 6 forward. Do we use this too? I'm sure that won't count...

 

[Brainiac]

These are the mentions about Eller in the GDTs From game 6 to game 12.

Sorry, but I don't see the difference between these statements and what is said when Eller is in a 20 games scoreless slump. Except maybe for the word 'beast' here and there which disapears when Eller slumps.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

Sorry, but I don't see the difference between these statements and what is said when Eller is in a 20 games scoreless slump. Except maybe for the word 'beast' here and there which disapears when Eller slumps.

You don't see a difference between when people says Eller is in beast mode, that he deserves more ice-time because of his plays, that he, along with Gallagher, are the best forwards of the team? Really? You don't see the difference or you refuse to see it? Or just can't accept it?

These are what is said about Eller by the members of this board, not one particular one. I didn't invent these stuffs.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

GDTs are a weird place to look.

Keep in mind the majority of hf Montreal said Eller is not a top 6 forward. Do we use this too? I'm sure that won't count...

Why would it be weird. It's a bunch of Habs fans watching the game lives and basically, describing what's on the ice and how a player play. And like I said previously, the mentions on Eller is about 90% positive and 10% negative. Now go read about how Plekanec and DD played. If you can't rewatch the games, the GDTS is actually the best place to look since people comment almost instantly on what happens on the ice.

Watch the mentions in the game 6 against ottawa and tampa bay. They are pretty telling to me, unless you can't accept it for some reason.

People saying Eller REALLY STRUGGLED in the playoffs clearly have short memory or simply dislike him to the point that they can't recognize that he was our best forwards with Gallagher.

 

[LastWordArmy]

In 4 years, I haven't seen anything from Desharnais that makes him a better offensive player than Eller. Some people will say that DD has superior vision but I have my doubts. DD gets the benefits of playing with the team's top wingers. I don't blame Eller at all for wanting to keep the puck since he's been playing with grinders and 4th liners the majority of the time. That being said, neither are 1st line players and everybody knows that. It's just that with DD's production or lack thereof, it's time for a change and insert someone else into that role; whether Galchenyuk, Pleks or Eller.

DD's ESP/60 without Max is .5 higher than Eller's ESP/60 over the last 5 years.

 

[LastWordArmy]

3 points getting mostly garbage deployment and being tasked with going against the oppositions top players. The 3 points was low, sure, lets look at how the players tasked with scoring goals did:
Patch 7 pts
Gally 5 pts
Plek 4 pts
Chucky 4 pts
Davey 3 pts
Weise 3 pts

Other than Patch, they werent really much better than Eller all things considered.

The fact that no one else was good doesn't change the fact that Eller didn't bring it in the playoffs.

All I'm saying is that lets be clear.... he was good in one playoffs... the narrative that he "always brings it in the playoffs" is not supported by the evidence. In fact during his 2014 playoffs, his on-ice shooting percentage was north of 20% indicating unsustainability.

 

[LastWordArmy]

Eller's deployment in the 2015 playoffs had 57.9% offensive zone starts....

Can we stop with the "he didn't score points cause of his deployment"?

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/e/ellerla01.html

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I don't think either are top-6 players to be honest, that's why I'm unhappy with one being gifted all the easy minutes and powerplay time, while being abysmal at pretty much every facet of the game

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Why would it be weird. It's a bunch of Habs fans watching the game lives and basically, describing what's on the ice and how a player play. And like I said previously, the mentions on Eller is about 90% positive and 10% negative. Now go read about how Plekanec and DD played. If you can't rewatch the games, the GDTS is actually the best place to look since people comment almost instantly on what happens on the ice.

Watch the mentions in the game 6 against ottawa and tampa bay. They are pretty telling to me, unless you can't accept it for some reason.

People saying Eller REALLY STRUGGLED in the playoffs clearly have short memory or simply dislike him to the point that they can't recognize that he was our best forwards with Gallagher.

I never said Eller had a bad playoff. I just think GDTs are terrible places to look. It's filled with bias.

If we made a highlight reel of Eller's "warrior", "beast", "too good" plays of the 2015 playoffs how long would this clip be? "He carried it into the zone! wow"

It's an exaggeration. People are still hyping him from his good 2014 playoff run. He played decent-good but not 'beastly'.

Either way, if HFboards is accurate then:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1915299&highlight=top

73-99 for Eller. If HFboards is accurate then I'm sure you'd find no fault in this?

Reality is, even with the bias(look at difference between DD and Eller) there people still say no...imagine.

Eller is a good 3rd liner. In the playoffs he played like a good 3rd liner. Next year he will be a good 3rd liner. He is paid as a good 3rd liner.

He is not a 'beast' nor is he a 'warrior'. He has good runs but the glory Eller gets is a massive exaggeration. He's the perfect player for his role but he gets more hype than he deserves because people are desperate for an upgrade and are looking anywhere for it.

 

[Andy]

Eller's deployment in the 2015 playoffs had 57.9% offensive zone starts....

Can we stop with the "he didn't score points cause of his deployment"?

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/e/ellerla01.html

No one scored in the playoffs.

 

[Brainiac]

You don't see a difference between when people says Eller is in beast mode, that he deserves more ice-time because of his plays, that he, along with Gallagher, are the best forwards of the team? Really? You don't see the difference or you refuse to see it? Or just can't accept it?

As I said, except for the beast word, we hear that stuff all the time about Eller. Even when he's slumping. To be more precise, the major difference when Eller is slumping is that this board suddenly becomes quiet about him. But the rare comments are still vastly positive or complaining about the coach/DD.

And, also, while we're at it: for me, 1G and 2A in 12 games doesn't scream beast mode much. However you slice it. Maybe he was for a game or two, but certainly not on the whole. Beast mode means taking games over and making the team win night in, night out.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Eller's deployment in the 2015 playoffs had 57.9% offensive zone starts....

Can we stop with the "he didn't score points cause of his deployment"?

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/e/ellerla01.html

I'm a little confused about the numbers.

Other sites have him listed as a lower OZS % but I know they omit certain situations like 6 on 5 play(pulled goalie), 4 on 4 play, special teams etc...

Can someone tell me why hockey reference has numbers like this?

It's a little staggering, even by my standards.

It says Eller had 48.0% OZS this regular season and DD had 48.2%

I know this likely includes 4 on 4 play but it's a big difference relative to other sites.

 

[Andy]

As I said, except for the beast word, we hear that stuff all the time about Eller. Even when he's slumping. To be more precise, the major difference when Eller is slumping is that this board suddenly becomes quiet about him. But the rare comments are still vastly positive or complaining about the coach/DD.

And, also, while we're at it: for me, 1G and 2A in 12 games doesn't scream beast mode much. However you slice it. Maybe he was for a game or two, but certainly not on the whole. Beast mode means taking games over and making the team win night in, night out.

I distinctly recall Eller having a good playoffs despite not putting up points. I also remember many acknowledging so even beyond on HFboards.

 

[Nordiques1979]

Why people keep thinkinv that Eller is a biv hitter when he only hits 76 times last season!?

 

[Brainiac]

I distinctly recall Eller having a good playoffs despite not putting up points. I also remember many acknowledging so even beyond on HFboards.

Good compared to many of his teammates, agreed 100%.

'Beast mode' is overselling a little bit. Even by HFHabs standards. But I'm used to it and my brain automatically tone it down a notch when I read the posts, so I don't mind.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Why people keep thinkinv that Eller is a biv hitter when he only hits 76 times last season!?

It's what many people have argued for a while. He shows good flashes.

Stuff like this catches people's eye:



Reality is he had less hits than Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, Prust and Weise. Apart from 4th liners he beat Desharnais, Plekanec and Gallagher.

Even DLR who played only 33 GP had 71 hits vs Eller's 77GP and 76 hits.

He's not a physical player nor do I expect him to be. People just cling into the flashes with Eller.

It's unfair to the player really. He's a good player, there's no need to invent that he's a super physical player or that he's a top 6 forward. If he plays like he has he will have a long NHL career regardless, there's no need to hype him up and make him something he isn't.

 

[Brainiac]

Why people keep thinkinv that Eller is a biv hitter when he only hits 76 times last season!?

Therrien.

That or, when you're a puck possession monster like Eller, you don't need to hit much.

 

[Price is Wright]

Eller's deployment in the 2015 playoffs had 57.9% offensive zone starts....

Can we stop with the "he didn't score points cause of his deployment"?

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/e/ellerla01.html

But but the season. But but his teammates. But but his coach. But but

 

[LastWordArmy]

I'm a little confused about the numbers.

Other sites have him listed as a lower OZS % but I know they omit certain situations like 6 on 5 play(pulled goalie), 4 on 4 play, special teams etc...

Can someone tell me why hockey reference has numbers like this?

It's a little staggering, even by my standards.

It says Eller had 48.0% OZS this regular season and DD had 48.2%

I know this likely includes 4 on 4 play but it's a big difference relative to other sites.

Other sites usually list things at around 30-45% for ozone and dzone. They don't list neutral zone starts, but if you look at another site you add ozone + dzone and it doesn't add up to 100... the remainder is Neutral zone starts.

Hockey Reference takes out the neutral zone starts and just looks at ozone or dzone. So the numbers are higher for both.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Other sites usually list things at around 30-45% for ozone and dzone. They don't list neutral zone starts, but if you look at another site you add ozone + dzone and it doesn't add up to 100... the remainder is Neutral zone starts.

Hockey Reference takes out the neutral zone starts and just looks at ozone or dzone. So the numbers are higher for both.

No. For example:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1229&withagainst=true&season=2014-15&sit=5v5

It has OZS, DZS, NZS and then the OZS %(based on OZS and DZS only).

It's listed at 37.5%.

There must be a reason for this.

I'm no "Eller is a top 6 forward" poster but I do like knowing where numbers come from. There's a difference and I'm curious as to why.

I realize this is only 5 on 5 numbers but are the 4 on 4 numbers that staggering in Eller's favour?

 

[Nynja*]

Why people keep thinkinv that Eller is a biv hitter when he only hits 76 times last season!?

Its illegal to hit players when your team has the puck, thats why Eller doesnt have many hits.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

As I said, except for the beast word, we hear that stuff all the time about Eller. Even when he's slumping. To be more precise, the major difference when Eller is slumping is that this board suddenly becomes quiet about him. But the rare comments are still vastly positive or complaining about the coach/DD.

And, also, while we're at it: for me, 1G and 2A in 12 games doesn't scream beast mode much. However you slice it. Maybe he was for a game or two, but certainly not on the whole. Beast mode means taking games over and making the team win night in, night out.

First or all. I already said Eller games goes beyond his production. Would you watch the games instead? As a third center and the role we expect from him. He did a great job.

You can't credit Eller. He's either lucky when he produces or have terrible playoffs when he doesn't plll. Never you take Ellers role into consideration to judge how he plays because if you did, you would understand that Eller did a great job as a third liner in the playoffs so far.

3 pts in 12 games might not be a lot but that still comparable with our top 2 centers so that just mean that the team did not scored a lot of goals but the game is on the ice not on the scoresheet espescially for a third liner. I bet you don't even remember how Eller really played in the playoffs and based your opinions with his stats only.

The beast mentions was said because of his game on the ice. He was great on both side of the ices and was very poised with the puck. Making great defensive plays and offensive play that went unfinished because his poor wingers. Bottom line. Eller was effective as our third liner and did not have a bad playoffs at all like you and LWA pretend.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Its illegal to hit players when your team has the puck, thats why Eller doesnt have many hits.

Weird, the guys he played with: DLR, Weise, Prust managed to do plenty of illegal plays then.

OR

He's not that physical(which isn't the end of the world).

 

[Soltantgris]

People saying Eller REALLY STRUGGLED in the playoffs clearly have short memory or simply dislike him to the point that they can't recognize that he was our best forwards with Gallagher.

It's not even an opinion, it's a fact. Eller was one of the few habs forward to stand up during playoffs. Him, Gally and Prust was very good - not that the others was bad - but they created some momenthum/scoring chances while some others was having hard time existing (aka Plekanec/Desharnais).

 

[Andy]

He's not that physical(which isn't the end of the world).

If you measure physicality by hits, sure. But that's a very narrow definition of physicality.