Team_Spirit
95% Elliotte
- Jul 3, 2002
- 37,957
- 18,187
Lars Eller - The Adventure Continues...
- Thread starter Lafleurs Guy
- Start date
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ECWHSWI
TOUGHEN UP.
- Oct 27, 2006
- 28,604
- 5,423
pretty simple, few posters who think we should keep Eller insist on trying to "prove" the guy isnt really good
Habs4Life
Registered User
pretty simple, few posters who think we should keep Eller insist on trying to "prove" the guy isnt really good
he's a 3rd liner end of story,, close the thread lol
Lafleurs Guy
Guuuuuuuy!
- Jul 20, 2007
- 75,636
- 45,803
No kidding.
His usage is the difference here. How can you not see this?
You're talking about a young player who was establishing himself. 2013 was his breakout year. It's not surprising at all that his production wouldn't be great before this because he was establishing himself as an NHL player.
What doesn't make sense is that after a great season we'd give him less offensive opportunity but that's exactly what happened. And it started to happen at the beginning of the 2014 season. Coming into that year Eller got off to a great start. 8 points in 8 games. Then we go into Edmonton and he says something that the coach doesn't like. We lost the game and it seems like Eller's been in the doghouse since. Ever since then his production hasn't been the same.
As for this season - Eller's production fell off a cliff. He went through a brutal slump much of which coincided with Therrien's idiotic decision to replace him at center with a raw rookie. All you have proven here is what we've been telling you for a long time now... usage matters.
You are looking at this through the wrong end of the telescope.
The guy has a great year in 2013. He's a big young center with good potential - something we've needed for years. So what do we do? We break up his line and shove him to the 3rd line. We take away his PP minutes and make him a defensive scrub. Not surprisingly his numbers sink.
It's totally stupid of the coach to take a guy with potential and then use him as a dishrag to do the dirty work. Then people actually sit there and go "SEE! He has no offensive potential!" BS.
It would be one thing if we had used him as the 2nd line center after 2013 and he failed... then your "outlier" argument would hold water and we could all go back to talking about PK Subban and whether or not he should be allowed to triple low five. Instead we junk the kid into the 3rd line and folks like yourself are now saying that 2013 was some kind of fluke...
It makes absolutely zero sense to use him the way we did. Eller's got more potential than we've seen and he's proven it. He's an infinitely superior player to DD (who racks up some of the easiest minutes in the NHL) but we use him as a defensive scrub. The bottom line is that we've wasted any real potential he's had and we'll never really know how good he really is because we've never given him a serious chance. When given a chance he produced. So why the hell did we break up that line? Why didn't we give him more opportunity to develop? The reality is that his production at 5 on 5 is similar to Plek's and he's a much better player than DD. Why we've used him the way we have is a total mystery.
No player is going to shoot at 20 percent for his career. But there are underlying numbers to look at and Eller's have been good for how he's been used. I won't speak for the arguments you're referring to here as I didn't make them but I do think that when the chips are down Eller tends to play good hockey and DD tends to fade away. This just makes it all the more mystifying on how we've used him.
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optimus2861
Registered User
NobleSix
High Tech Low-Life.
That's the mystic surrounding the Cult of Eller. So much fanfare and activity for a reason all but a few understand.
How we use our centers will always remain an issue, until we finally get a top one.
And yet, when we get that #1C, Eller will still be on the third line...
I went out drinking with the guys last night and this morning, I realized that I inconciously added an item to my check list:
-Keys, check
-Wallet, check
-Cell phone, no drunk texting, check
-No infraction because of the Eller thread, check!
First, I doubt he heard anything from EDM. He was just speculating.
Secondly, it was Subban + 3rd overall for Yakupov. Just Subban is insane and nobody would do it. Then add the 3rd overall.
Have you ever seen a team give away a #1 defensman just to move up two spots in the draft?
He was misquoted quite a bit on that one, but the original comment was still dumb as hell.
Pretty sure a lot of posters would still complain.
Yep...
until Eller surpasses Plekanec which I still think it COULD be possible. Not saying it will but I still think Eller has the potential to be a 2nd center for us we find a very good 1st.
Last 2 playoffs convinced me that Eller has the ability to bring his game to another level. Yes last playoffs he wasn't as productive as we hoped but his production was still "normal" for a third center considering the number of goals scored and compared to Plek and DD. Eller has shown that he can be effective in the playoffs and with good wingers and PP, he could easily play the role of a 2nd center. It's been two years that he's our best center in the playoffs. Not saying that he's a playoffs performer but at least he has shown that he step up his game and play effectively in the playoffs, unlike Plekanec and DD.
I see it just fine. I compared two bottom 6 players over last 2 years, both of which got top 6 time on occasion. Weise destroys him in P/60 and everyone knows Eller is the better player. That's why certain metrics can point you in a direction but we need to stop and think if they make sense too. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I consider Eller's 'breakout' season an outlier.
I'm not sure how you quantify things but again, he got more ES TOI, more PP TOI, more OZS, better linemates and produced less. He also got more defensive zone starts as well, that's why the OZS% is lower but in raw numbers he had more.
262 OZS in 2013-14 vs 167 in 2012-13.
Shortened season? Of course but when looking at the fundamentals:
30 points in 46 GP vs 26 in 77 GP I mean...
I'm not looking at a PPG here. Eller got more opportunity by the end of the year and failed to recreate anything of that magnitude.
Saying he was in doghouse after 8 games is completely false.
After the Edmonton game(game 9) Eller average 18 minutes a game or so playing with EGG and getting PP time. How is this the doghouse by any stretch of the imagination?
I'm not saying he got preferential treatment or got offensive minutes all year but game 9 and on? really? Over next 5 games:
Game 9 2:49 PP, 0:00 PK TOI (DD 2:16 PP, 0:10 PK) (Plekanec 3:14 PP, 3:06 PK)
Game 10 0:45 PP, 0:32 PK TOI (DD 0:00 PP, 0:00 PK) (Plekanec 1:15 PP, 3:50 PK)
Game 11 4:05 PP, 2:29 PK TOI (DD 1:29 PP, 0:00 PK) (Plekanec 3:25 PP, 3:35 PK)
Game 12 2:09 PP, 0:05 PK TOI (DD 1:01 PP, 0:00 PK) (Plekanec 2:50 PP, 1:15 PK)
Game 13 1:12 PP, 0:15 PK TOI (DD 0:02 PP, 0:00 PK) (Plekanec 1:09 PP, 0:48 PK)
How is this doghouse usage? He barely even played PK!
Some people overrate the 1st overall so much it's insane. All 1st overall are not equal.
Anybody with half a brain knows very well, without hindsight and all, that McDavid >>>>> Yakupov. It's not even close. Back in 2012, everybody knew that it was a weak draft in terms of elite talent.
Hence, McGuire's comment was pretty dumb. Because he's overrating the 1st overall.
Team_Spirit
95% Elliotte
- Jul 3, 2002
- 37,957
- 18,187
Eller is just avg 3rd line center and nothing more. Although I also agree that he has the tools to jump to top six but with his attitude he will remain at 3rd line position as was expected to begin with. Nothing great but I guess Eller is better than nothing!
Milhouse40
Registered User
- Aug 19, 2010
- 22,153
- 24,772
On that one, though, I disagree. He's not an average third liner. He's a very good one.
The only thing where I disagree with Eller's fans is that I think he's best suited for that role and moving him up to the first or second line might not yield the expected results.
He's an average third liner, based on the fact he gets saddled with garbage defensive deployment against the oppositions top units, and constantly and reliably winds up pushing the play back into the offensive zone.
Yup, makes sense.
Eller disappears for half the season. He has been provided with the opportunities to jump to 2nd line center and came out flat. So what else is there to blame it on?
He doesn't disappear. Only his offensive part of his game is struggling but he remains an effective 3rd line center. His stats is still average/good as a 3rd center, would have been way better if he had decent wingers that can score more than 5 goals per season. Eller is still to 50 for center league wide in goals, and about top 40 for even strength goals. That's pretty good for a third center.
At least he is there when it matters the most, which is the playoffs. Not many team we can say that the third outplays and outproduces the top 2 centers.
I'm sorry, what? Do we have a different definition of "provided with opportunities"?
S Bah
Registered User
The really strange factor about Eller's worth, is his name always comes up in any trade talks with other GM's, like the Evander Kane trade talks. Why is that do you suppose? When Bergevin first became the Habs GM, he was frequently asked if Eller was available, which only heightened Bergy's interest as to why so many were asking.
I would like to see Eller playing a full season with the same linemates, preferably with JDLR(LW) and one of Zack Kassian or Mike McCarron on their RW, that could be a very effective two/way checking line, capable of scoring also once they build some chemistry and experience with each others talents.
When Bergevin first became the Habs GM, he was frequently asked if Eller was available, which only heightened Bergy's interest as to why so many were asking. I would like to see Eller playing a full season with the same linemates, preferably with JDLR(LW) and one of Zack Kassian or Mike McCarron on their RW, that could be a very effective two/way checking line, capable of scoring also once they build some chemistry and experience with each others talents.
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Soltantgris
Registered User
- May 31, 2010
- 782
- 14
The really strange factor about Eller's worth, is his name always comes up in any trade talks with other GM's, like the Evander Kane trade talks. Why is that do you suppose?
Don't where you take your information about GMs asking for Eller.
And Kassian is the last guy you want on a checking line role. Don't know for McCarron. Mid term, we may get better luck with something like Hudon/Eller/Scherbak.
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