Lafreniere Hat Trick / 5 Point Night, (9 points in last 5 games) heating up?

daver

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Apr 4, 2003
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Ever consider to make a valid opinion rather than looking at numbers ?:laugh:

He’s on the second unit that maybe gets 30 seconds. You see who’s on the first unit? They get a majority of the 2 minute power play.

Notable "60 point superstar" Vincent Trocheck? McDavid would be pushed down to PP2 if the Troch was on the Oilers.
 

NickyFotiu

NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
Sep 29, 2011
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I use empirical data to inform my opinions, rather than make personal attacks at people that disagree with me.
With all due respect you are arguing correlation equals causation. The reason Laf and other Rangers don't get quality PP time isn't their own performance. Its because Fox, Bread, CK, Zibs, and Vince have played pretty darn well on the PP for much of the season.
 

NickyFotiu

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Notable "60 point superstar" Vincent Trocheck? McDavid would be pushed down to PP2 if the Troch was on the Oilers.
Vince is on the PP to win faceoffs primarily. Vince has also become strong as a PP bumper.
 

daver

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I do not think coaches look at a few lost PP faceoffs as nonchalantly as you do. A few lost faceoffs is 45 seconds off the PP regrouping.

I don't think coaches also nonchalantly overlook "star" offensive talent when determining who plays during their team's most important offensive opportunities.

Anyways, regardless of the reason why he is on the PP2 unit, he likely gets less ES time and loses ES points if he is on PP1.

These "if only he got XX player's icetime" he would score more never pan out.

And the OP has been annoying so you can expect some pushback on the main board.
 
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NickyFotiu

NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
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I don't think coaches also nonchalantly overlook "star" offensive talent when determining who plays during their team's most important offensive opportunities.

Anyways, regardless of the reason why he is on the PP2 unit, he likely gets less ES time and loses ES points if he is on PP1.

These "if only he got XX player's icetime" he would score more never pan out.

And the OP has been annoying so you can expect some pushback on the main board.
Nobody is being overlooked. Each guy on our PP 1 has a specific role in which they have done well. I wouldn't change our PP 1 players BUT I would consider reducing the frequency that they stay out for over 90 seconds of a 2 minute penalty.

In regards to the poster that isn't what Im addressing. I'm just addressing our PP1 personal. 😊
 

26Mats

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Jun 23, 2018
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For all the bust talk, he seems to be busting out of that narrative, eh? Puns aside, the kids confidence was destroyed under Gallant.

He truly looks like a star player now, worth where he was selected. Granted earlier in the season he was snake bitten on so many high scoring chances, now he’s learning how to finish at a high rate. Keep in mind, that if Laf would be on the PP1 unit he’d be around 70-80.

While his development stalled and took a while to increase his confidence — having a 30-30 season at just 22 is pretty impressive. The impact he’ll make by the time he’s 27 will be astronomical. I can see a 40 goal scorer in his prime.

Thoughts on where Lafreniere is now in his career?

Headline should read: Alexis Lafreniere quietly having a 30 - 30 season*

*playing with Artermi Panarin.
 

Seb

All we are is Dustin Byfuglien
Jul 15, 2006
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I'm really glad to see him improve, he's still young and still has a lot of room to develop more.

I'm not gonna lie, I had no faith in the Rangers and how they handled him. Especially seeing how many busts they've had in the past few years.

Luckily, Laf is going in the right direction now and if he achieves his potential he's going to be a force.
 

noncents

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Feb 25, 2022
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I use empirical data to inform my opinions, rather than make personal attacks at people that disagree with me.
well your hypothesis was wrong. he doesn't not get PP time because he's not good at it. he doesn't get PP time because there isn't room on PP1 - fox panarin aren't moving, kreider netfront, zib clapper, and troch takes the draw.

it literally has nothing to do with Laf.
 
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ScaredStreit

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May 5, 2006
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He's not a bust in the sense that he's not an NHL caliber player (he is). But for what he was projected to be and going #1 overall you do expect more than a 55-60 point player. He has the potential for more, only time will tell.
 

noncents

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Feb 25, 2022
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listen NYR fans. people find it very difficult to not poke and snipe at NYR players or fan opinions under the guise of chirping or logic or whatever. We come to their barns and embarrass them, we puff our chests out without the pedigree of other O6 franchises, there's always gonna be an issue.

But objective hockey fans who actually watch this kid play can recognize what he's becoming - a star player. Just like I can see it in Nemec
 
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eco's bones

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Jul 21, 2005
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Lafreniere could end up with 30/30 but right now he's 26/28 with 6 games to go which is not quite 30/30. I don't know I'm kind of a nitpicker on these things. For instance calling a 29 goal scorer a 30 goal scorer just isn't right for me. It's true Alexis doesn't get much in the way of power play time but it doesn't hurt to play with Trocheck and Panarin. That said he seemed snakebit a lot in the first half and now pucks are going in with more frequency from his shots and passes. I also think he and Trocheck have helped Panarin get over the 100 point hump quite a lot. The three just fit very well together.
 

Cuckoo4Kakko

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Jul 1, 2019
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Notable "60 point superstar" Vincent Trocheck? McDavid would be pushed down to PP2 if the Troch was on the Oilers.
You mean the guy who wins the faceoffs? You don't watch the team. It's fine. Tro isn't leaving PP1.

People are loud pro Laf now because of how loud the anti Laf takes were and continue to be. People don't want to admit their wrong. It's fine. Can't argue with stubborn.
 
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noncents

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Feb 25, 2022
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You mean the guy who wins the faceoffs? You don't watch the team. It's fine. Tro isn't leaving PP1.

People are loud pro Laf now because of how loud the anti Laf takes were and continue to be. People don't want to admit their wrong. It's fine. Can't argue with stubborn.
yeah - to loudly crap on a kid as a bust is 'just calling it like it is.' to loudly pump his tires when he starts heating up is crass and mockworthy.

it's never been clear to me why Rangers fans desire the approval of all other fans or media. Being a darling isn't the purpose we serve in this ecosystem. We're the Leafs of the US market: many in number, loud and brash in temperament, and largely without reason for pride - with one great shining example to the contrary (unlike Toronto).

Lafreniere is becoming a real one. Fun to watch.
 

WarriorofTime

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Jul 3, 2010
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well your hypothesis was wrong. he doesn't not get PP time because he's not good at it. he doesn't get PP time because there isn't room on PP1 - fox panarin aren't moving, kreider netfront, zib clapper, and troch takes the draw.

it literally has nothing to do with Laf.
He also is literally one of the worst performing performers on the powerplay since coming into the league. That is a fact. He is not the only player in the league that plays on the second unit.
 

noncents

Registered User
Feb 25, 2022
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He also is literally one of the worst performing performers on the powerplay since coming into the league. That is a fact. He is not the only player in the league that plays on the second unit.
The hypothesis im referring to is the idea that he doesn't get PP time because he's bad on the power play. That's your opinion and it's incorrect.

The fact you're quoting is a statistic twisted to suit your argument. And you are not going to change your mind. You're not interested in changing it, so you're not open to the idea that the statistic you're quoting is misleading.

In theory, we could spend hours going over every one of his PP shifts since his career began, and you could see how getting a 12 second "shift" starting in the D zone is actually not representative of a real PP opportunity in terms of what PPP/60 might be understood to meaningfully show.

You could see how, when essentially all PP minutes accrued over a 3 year period are simply those 10-20 second nothings stacked up, the actual Power Play time is significantly less than actual seconds spent on the an advantage.

You might be led to notice how Filip Chytil and Kaapo Kakko are a few notches above Lafreniere on the list you attached. You could of course take the stat as fact and assume that all 3 are historically impotent PP producers, linked by cruel circumstance to be on the same PP2 unit.

Or you could ask yourself - is it that all 3 of these guys, whose PP shifts were almost exclusively shared over the period since Lafrenieres career began, are all historically poor PP producers? Or is it actually that they were all put together in the exact same situation over and over again - a token 15 seconds at the end of a 1:45 shift by one of the dominant power plays of the last 5 years, with no plan in place or expectation or trust in scoring ability. Just a token 15 second "PP shift" for the Kid line + Trouba and Barclay Goodrow, or Dryden Hunt, or Sammy Blais.

You could spend time looking into the seconds and minutes behind the statistic you're quoting as fact to try and understand what it is you're touting. But we both know you're not going to do that, because to do so would require an openness to changing your mind that is sparse here and ever sparser in this world.

I watch the games. I watch the shifts. I have the context. It matters nothing to me whether you or anyone else agree, at least on this particular issue. So feel free to quote more stats. The numbers may be fact, but the meaning is opinion. And your hypothesis is flatly incorrect.
 

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