GoAwayDanCleary
DRWCC
- Aug 6, 2012
- 10,752
- 5
Lack of scoring/finishing
- Thread starter Frk It
- Start date
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
You missed the point entirely, I look at capgeek, very familiar with the site. But just because you get the program to do the calculator for you doesn't mean it will even remotely work in reality. When you decide to do it while making 6 or 7 moves it looks even more ridiculous.
But I guess that is fine because really the whole what I would do if I was a GM is inherently wrong, it operates in a world where you can fix everything in one fell swoop and there aren't 29 competitors. That these guys are all interested in being here and don't care about roles or getting their best available offer. That was what I was getting at and there are so many of those cap geek suggestions that it is hard to remember who did what and when it isn't posted in this thread and just with bullet point acquisitions I will respond with that seems utterly implausible in terms of cap and everything else.
That is why teams pursue plans in segmented phases, we pursue player X as option A, then move on to B. What happens with something the way you described is a series of moves unlike anything most have ever seen. What is the closest? What Philly did, even that was heavily trade decided not pulling from pools all over the place and they had the assets to accomplish that. I am all for a plan but what you did struck me as pure fantasy and beyond reality.
Run the Jewels
Make Detroit Great Again
Yeah, I'm done with him. He can think whatever he wants to think. Just like people here have a raging clue for Kindl. I'll never understand why and I've made my point he's absolutely nothing you can't easily replace but am I going to argue with every person who pumps his tires? Honestly no, I've got much better things to do with my time.
Brick Top
LANA!!!!!
Yeah, this is definitely the least threatening Wings lineup, and certainly top 6, in years. Two aging playmakers who aren't goal scoring threats like they used to be, Franzen being his streaky self, and no immediate help on the horizon.
Mickey usually whines 4x a game about how often Z has guys "hanging all over him" as he carries the puck... which is due to Z lugging the puck more than most guys care to, and his apparently ever-slowing skating speed. I don't think his game is going to age well as he gets to his mid-'30's, let alone late '30's. Gotta hope that either young guys like Gus or Tatar become goal scoring studs much quicker than is likely realistic, or KH goes out of his comfort zone and acquires an impact scorer or 2... otherwise, the Wings look to be laboring to score 1 or 2 goals a game for seasons to come.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
Nice...
Guess where Ryan Ellis is now? Hint: Milwaukee Admirals.
Lol at comparing Doughty to Sproul. Doughty at 16 was probably more complete player than what Sproul is now. Doughty was dominating at ****ing Olympics at when he was at Sproul's age.
Sproul couldn't make even make the Canadian WJC team.
Staal was 12th ovr pick. Sproul was late 2nd rounder.
I don't think it's a coincidence that Z looked so much quicker and more effective early in the season when Brunner still had his legs and was more effective in the offensive zone. Z can't do it alone, and he goes stretches of just lugging the puck all over the offensive zone, while his linemates don't do anything. Agree about the Wings needing someone to step up and take some of that load off of Z (and D).
joe89
#5
- Apr 30, 2009
- 20,316
- 179
While the Wings need more offense from the backend(whether it is Kindl, Smith emerging or a FA), I still think the biggest problem for this team spells net presence and (lack of) first line shooter. Homer is gone, Cleary isn't what he once was, Bert has been injured, even Helm and Sammy do some damage in front of the net usually and they are out too. Abby being willing to take a beating is nice and all, but he's not a scorer. Andersson is a rookie and still figuring it out. It's not just about sticking your ass in there, you also need skill. There's not enough players that have the size, will and skill to play to the inside on this team.
We have guys who can create scoring chances and even shoot the puck on a good day, but there's no one there to pound in a rebound because they all play the same style naturally.
We have guys who can create scoring chances and even shoot the puck on a good day, but there's no one there to pound in a rebound because they all play the same style naturally.
Actually, net presence is about 4 or 5 on the list of things the Wings need to improve their offense. There is no speed in the top 6 and little speed both up front and on the blueline. Who on this team can skate and has some skill? Pav when healthy, Brunner, Gus, Tatar when he's up--that's it. Of the oplayers I mentioned, only Pav is a proven NHLer. There needs to be an infusion of speed into the top 6 his offseason, but we've been a slow team for the last 3 years. I keep beating the same drum--you can't have as many bad/mediocre skaters in your top 6 as we do and be effective, not even dynamic just effective offensively...not in todays league.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
Ellis isn't NHL ready as someone that gets to see him in person. Oddly enough in terms of that team Ekholm pretty much always outshines Blum and Ellis when they are all here.
In fact Ellis is a good person to bring up, because they tried to force him up and it didn't really work out. Now he seems to have confidence issues at even the AHL level lately.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
And he tore the juniors ****ing apart.
2007-08 Windsor Spitfires OHL 63 15 48 63 30 | Playoffs 5 2 3 5 0
Canada U18 WJC-18 7 3 4 7
2008-09 Windsor Spitfires OHL 57 22 67 89 52 | Playoffs 20 8 23 31 16
Canada U20 WJC-20 6 1 6 7
2009-10 Windsor Spitfires OHL 48 12 49 61 39 | Playoffs 19 3 30 33 14
Canada U20 WJC-20 6 1 7 8
2010-11 Windsor Spitfires OHL 58 24 76 100 24 | Playoffs 18 6 13 19 9
Brick Top
LANA!!!!!
No question that Z's linemates have more or less deserted him lately when it comes to offensive production. But I do think that Hank is slowing down as a player- not sure if it's a cumulative effect of injuries or what, but he rarely has much jump out on the ice. I don't think he was much faster earlier in the season- he was probably carrying the puck a little less b/c his linemates were actually helping him out.
Z's linemates haven't really been carrying the mail lately, but his lack of goal scoring for basically the second half of the season has hurt the offense (not trying to single him out b/c there are plenty of guys not putting the puck in the net this year).
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
I think they burned both him and Datsyuk out at the start of the year. But if he is slowing down, he now entering the third period has the exact same number of points as Datsyuk. So he is pretty productive while slowing down still and produces at an impressive clip.
Run the Jewels
Make Detroit Great Again
Most people who follow the WJC would tell you Sproul should have made the team and his exclusion cost the Canadian team. If you are convinced the AHL is a great development league then fine. I don't think there's anything to show it's worth a **** when it comes to developing NHL talent.
Brick Top
LANA!!!!!
I don't think Hank or Pavel have had great years offensively, by their own standards. Z does have some sweet assists tonight, though.
Glad to see the other guys chipping in with goals tonight, but I think Z and D are going to have to score in the last few games to push the Wings into the PO's... I don't trust the other guys on the roster.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
Most people or most Wings fans?
Can't recall other than Wings fans saying that he should have been in.
Sproul didn't show much at those WJC camp games. He played steady, didn't make much mistakes but couldn't get anything done.
One can make argument that he should have been there over Murphy but there was still Corrado; who played better than Sproul in those games and scored a goal in both of those games.
Kadri
Kunitz
Parenteau
Moulson
Fleischmann
Brouwer
Franson
Byfuglien
Keith
Hamhuis
Beauchemin
Muzzin
Just some players that have spent 2 or more seasons in AHL.
Houston Red Winger
Registered User
Vladdy84
L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Run the Jewels
Make Detroit Great Again
OK I'll give you Duncan Keith. Other than Keith none of these guys are superstars. Kadri could be a really good player but he was a 7th overall pick who has gone the Bobby Ryan route and has never spent a full season in the AHL. It simply has not happened.
Your list is an indictment of how bad the AHL is at developing players considering how many players have gone through the A. Disagree all you want, I'm fine with that. One superstar on your list has passed through the A, that's really not the best way to make your case.
detredWINgs
Registered User
There is literally no one that agrees with your point. You've done nothing to back up your points other than an argument akin to "Jonathan Cheechoo once won the Richard, so he must be in the same class as Ovechkin."
Sproul is not ready for the NHL.
Sproul in the NHL next year will not be better than Kindl is now.
The AHL has produced talented hockey players.
Winning an OHL award doesn't seal your NHL fate.
Your arguments are borderline delusional.
detredWINgs
Registered User
No ****, sherlock. If you've got evident superstar potential as a teenager, you're going to be drafted higher and be in the NHL lineup sooner. That fact is compounded by the nature of the draft - weak teams drafting highest.
Sproul going to the AHL isn't somehow going to prevent him from being a superstar should he become that.
detredWINgs
Registered User
Ehrhoff (100+)
St. Louis (95 + 25 IHL games)
Plekanec (200+)
Pominville (150+)
Conacher (82 AHL games + ECHL)
Nielsen (100+)
Eriksson (95)
Roy (100+)
Goligoski (100+)
Campbell (150+)
Wisniewski (125+)
Burrows (100+, 50+ ECHL)
Wideman (90+)
Boyle (100+)
kuick
Tatar Sauce
626 AHL Alumni on NHL opening day rosters this season. Compared to 44 NBA D-League alumni. Yeah, totally comparable leagues (as fabricoh said in the Sproul thread).
That list is people who spent MULTIPLE years in the AHL. Countless top pairing guys have played near full year in the AHL after coming out of juniors. If Sproul is able to transition and dominate the league immediately he will make the team by the following year, if not sooner. It's not some automatic 3-4 year death sentence. As we continue to decline, management will be more open to the idea of youth movement.
drWINgs summed up the rest of the argument pretty nicely.
That list is people who spent MULTIPLE years in the AHL. Countless top pairing guys have played near full year in the AHL after coming out of juniors. If Sproul is able to transition and dominate the league immediately he will make the team by the following year, if not sooner. It's not some automatic 3-4 year death sentence. As we continue to decline, management will be more open to the idea of youth movement.
drWINgs summed up the rest of the argument pretty nicely.
Run the Jewels
Make Detroit Great Again
Ehrhoff came from a terrible development system in Germany.
St Louis was tiny so I can see sending a guy to the d-league.
Plekanec: see Ehrhoff.
Roy: see St. Louis
Conacher: ditto
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a development league. All I'm saying is Sproul has the size and skill where you can always bury him there if necessary. Seriously look at the list of AHL MVP award winners, it's pretty embarrassing for a league that's supposed to be one of the best leagues in the world.
This has been a fun debate. I was one of the few people singing Ericsson's praises when most here would have happily driven him to the airport. Let's see if Sproul is given an honest shot at winning a roster spot in training camp. If that happens I feel real good about how my opinion will look when the season starts this fall.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
Make my case? What case?
You said
Which I responded with that post.
Most superstars are in NHL at 20, when they are eligible for AHL.. Europeans often stay in Europe until they are ready. Sproul couldn't make the WJC team at that age and was rarely out there when defending a lead at dying seconds in his own junior team, from what I've seen/heard.
The kid maybe might be ready for AHL.
BTW EVERY league has had lost of players come and gone by and most won't make the NHL. Doesn't mean they are ****.
Maybe so many won't make it because they don't have enough talent?
Sproul is a longshot for superstar anyway.
And to come back to this.
fabricoh said:
How does it help YOUR case that you compared Sproul to Hamilton and thus trying prove that he's NHL ready. Other is 9th ovr pick, other late 2nd rounder. Other is looking good getting top 4 minutes in NHL and the other is often liability on his own zone at JUNIORS.
You also tried to make your case by saying that OHL D-man of they year is pretty good indicator that one is capable of holding his own at NHL; and cited Ryan Ellis who COULD NOT do that. He was/is in AHL at the time you posted that and looked to even regress during his time up in NHL as he lost confidence when he was struggling and wasn't good enough.
Not to mention Drew Doughty. Or saying that he most people thought he should have been in WJCs.
Last edited:
