Lack of scoring/finishing

[Run the Jewels]

While you are doing that why don't you void Edler's and Getzlaf's contract and make a provision where the Detroit Red Wings don't have to hit the cap in the new CBA. This is exactly the kind of hilarious if I was GM talk that makes me laugh. It ignores the obvious contract constraints, salary demands, and salary cap constrictions. If this is what you would do that is great, it is also totally impossible from a feasibility stand point.

Also for the record Ryder, Boyes and Gonchar will all take significant over-payment for their services. Aside from Boyes this year (to re-inflate his value) none of them has ever really signed for an awesome contract. Ryder has outperformed his Dallas deal, but it was more than most people thought he would get going out onto the market. More importantly what I am getting at is they have signed with the team that offered them the most cheddar.

I actually put together the Cap Geek numbers in a previous post. Not one person has criticized the actual dollar amounts I had for any of these three players. As usual you offer nothing in the way of suggestions where you have to do any real thought. Nope, just use a super cute emoticon and say ludicrous things like voiding Edler and Getzlaf's contract. That might be the most ridiculous thing I've read on these boards in all the years I've been here and trust me, there have been some doozies.

If you want to actually talk hockey please feel free.

 

[detredWINgs]

Eh, I think we need a reboot on the offensive d-men front.

EVS pairings:
Ericsson-Gonchar
Hainsey-Sproul
DeKeyser-Smith
Extras: Lashoff-Colaiacovo

Compliance buyout on Kronner
Trade Q and Kindl

First power play unit
Gonchar-Sproul

Second power play unit
DeKeyser/Colaiacovo-Smith

First PK unit
Ericsson-Hainsey

Second PK unit
DeKeyser-Smith

Not saying it is going to happen, but it would work out pretty well.

• One defensive and one offensive d-man on each pairing
• Three young guys in DeKeyser, Sproul and Smith who should develop rapidly
• You become bigger and faster with the only exception being Gonchar's lack of speed
• The second PP unit isn't perfect but you still have Sammy as a fallback option

I really do believe we need a legit offensive defenseman or two to drive the offense. That's the biggest difference from this season to the previous two where we had Lidstrom and Rafalski.

WHAT?!? Do you really need me to even lay out my reasoning for why this is a terrible idea??

How is Sproul ready?
Since when does Kronwall have no trade value??
What the hell is the point of swapping Gonchar with Kronwall??
Do you remember how much Lidstrom's offense fell off in his last season here?? LIDSTROM!!!!
Trade Kindl when he's finally come into his own???
Swap Quincey for Hainsey?? Holy Grass-is-Greener syndrome.

I don't even...

 

[Run the Jewels]

WHAT?!? Do you really need me to even lay out my reasoning for why this is a terrible idea??

How is Sproul ready?
Since when does Kronwall have no trade value??
What the hell is the point of swapping Gonchar with Kronwall??
Do you remember how much Lidstrom's offense fell off in his last season here?? LIDSTROM!!!!
Trade Kindl when he's finally come into his own???
Swap Quincey for Hainsey?? Holy Grass-is-Greener syndrome.

I don't even...

Dougies Hamilton is contributing in Boston. Shelter Sproul at EVS and let him play big mins on the PP. Hamilton has generated more offense 5v4 than Smith and Kindl this year.

Kronwall has a NTC and is on a terrible contract. You need to buy him out.

You need to trade Kindl now while he has some trade value. Not much, but the one strength the guy has is a nice shot from the point. Someone suggested paying him $3 million a year on his next deal. That's ****ing insanity. Just stop already.

Hainsey plays huge PK mins in the PEG. Our top PK unit of Hainsey and Ericsson would be very good. Hainsey can also play top 3 minutes, something Q is not good at in Detroit. Seriously, the only d-man who gets fewer mins 5v5 in Detroit than Q is Brian Lashoff. Let that marinate for a moment my friend. And Q is making close to $4 million a year for ****'s sake. Insanity, our fanbase whines about out team but cannot bear the thought of improving on mediocre talent like Q and Kindl.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

Dougies Hamilton is contributing in Boston. Shelter Sproul at EVS and let him play big mins on the PP. Hamilton has generated more offense 5v4 than Smith and Kindl this year.

Kronwall has a NTC and is on a terrible contract. You need to buy him out.

You need to trade Kindl now while he has some trade value. Not much, but the one strength the guy has is a nice shot from the point. Someone suggested paying him $3 million a year on his next deal. That's ****ing insanity. Just stop already.

Hainsey plays huge PK mins in the PEG. Our top PK unit of Hainsey and Ericsson would be very good. Hainsey can also play top 3 minutes, something Q is not good at in Detroit. Seriously, the only d-man who gets fewer mins 5v5 in Detroit than Q is Brian Lashoff. Let that marinate for a moment my friend. And Q is making close to $4 million a year for ****'s sake. Insanity, our fanbase whines about out team but cannot bear the thought of improving on mediocre talent like Q and Kindl.

I'm not quite sure how 4.75M per year is a bad contract, especially for a top pairing dman. Kronwall makes mistakes but you'll be hard pressed to find a better contract for a top pairing dman, no cheating using RFA contracts. Kronwall's contract won't have a penalty if he retires early and while the NTC isn't good it's not like we're going to trade our only top pairing dman any time soon.

Oh yeah and Hamilton has produced 4 power play points in 78 minutes of PP time. Smith has produced 2 points in 38 minutes of PP time. If we give Smith the same amount of PP time as Hamilton we get.. 4 points. Kindl you have a point about but it's why 1 point difference in 20 minutes of PP time, all of them are young so I don't see why you give one the benefit of the doubt and not the other.

 

[19 for president]

Kronner is on a great contract if he is your number 1 and still a very solid contract as a number 2. Buying him out makes very little sense. What the Wings need to do is get him a true defensive d partner that will allow him to jump into the play, and lay the big hit on occasion. Ericsson isn't a true defensive D. He is good on the PK but he is more of a two way guy at even strength. He actually has a pretty good outlet pass, but rarely gets to use it when paired with Kronner. He can also jump into the play pretty well, but again rarely gets to do this with Kronner.

If you get rid of Quincey and pick up a true defensive dman, I think that'll greatly improve our overall offense, as it will allow our offensive guys to act more naturally.

Kronner- Defensive dman
Ericsson-Kindl
Dekeyser-Smith

Right now our D rarely jumps up into the play so we get zero odd man rushes.

Getting Brunner off the point is another key. He doesn't have a very powerful point shot and hasn't scored from above the circles almost the entire year. Put him down low and you have another shooter on the PP and can get to lose pucks. I'd be more than fine having Kindl, Kronner and two of E, Smith, or Dekeyser on the PP. They all have pretty good shots and aren't nearly as big of a liability in terms of SH goals.

You also need to get forwards that fit the system you want to play. If that system is dump and chase you need big quick top 6 forwards to go with the skill guys. If you want to play puck possession you need to get players with more skill and not expect guys like Cleary, Abs, and Miller to score.

Lastly play the kids that actually show offensive potential. Nyquist and Tatar should both be playing right now. They show more offensive flair on a night to night basis than Flip and Cleary. You can't bench the guys creating offensive when your supporting players on not producing.

So bascially
1. Get a defensive dman for Kronner
2. Play the kids
3. Holland and Babs need to get on the same page, pick a system, and get the correct players for it. If they can't work it out between themselves then one of them has to go.

 

[Frk It]

Kronner is on a great contract if he is your number 1 and still a very solid contract as a number 2. Buying him out makes very little sense. What the Wings need to do is get him a true defensive d partner that will allow him to jump into the play, and lay the big hit on occasion. Ericsson isn't a true defensive D. He is good on the PK but he is more of a two way guy at even strength. He actually has a pretty good outlet pass, but rarely gets to use it when paired with Kronner. He can also jump into the play pretty well, but again rarely gets to do this with Kronner.

There's no defensive defensemen in the league that is going to make him better or more responsible in his own zone. Replacing Ericsson with someone else won't remedy the situation that much. The only solution to that is to play either less minutes or against easier competition. Preferably both.

 

[detredWINgs]

Kronner is on a great contract if he is your number 1 and still a very solid contract as a number 2. Buying him out makes very little sense. What the Wings need to do is get him a true defensive d partner that will allow him to jump into the play, and lay the big hit on occasion. Ericsson isn't a true defensive D. He is good on the PK but he is more of a two way guy at even strength. He actually has a pretty good outlet pass, but rarely gets to use it when paired with Kronner. He can also jump into the play pretty well, but again rarely gets to do this with Kronner.

If you get rid of Quincey and pick up a true defensive dman, I think that'll greatly improve our overall offense, as it will allow our offensive guys to act more naturally.

Kronner- Defensive dman
Ericsson-Kindl
Dekeyser-Smith

Right now our D rarely jumps up into the play so we get zero odd man rushes.

Getting Brunner off the point is another key. He doesn't have a very powerful point shot and hasn't scored from above the circles almost the entire year. Put him down low and you have another shooter on the PP and can get to lose pucks. I'd be more than fine having Kindl, Kronner and two of E, Smith, or Dekeyser on the PP. They all have pretty good shots and aren't nearly as big of a liability in terms of SH goals.

You also need to get forwards that fit the system you want to play. If that system is dump and chase you need big quick top 6 forwards to go with the skill guys. If you want to play puck possession you need to get players with more skill and not expect guys like Cleary, Abs, and Miller to score.

Lastly play the kids that actually show offensive potential. Nyquist and Tatar should both be playing right now. They show more offensive flair on a night to night basis than Flip and Cleary. You can't bench the guys creating offensive when your supporting players on not producing.

So bascially
1. Get a defensive dman for Kronner
2. Play the kids
3. Holland and Babs need to get on the same page, pick a system, and get the correct players for it. If they can't work it out between themselves then one of them has to go.

The problem with this is, if we simply get a defensive dman for Kronner, is that going to change Babcock's philosophy? IMO, if we add a defensive defenseman, then I think you're basically inviting Babcock to commit to a defense-first system and bank on winning games 2-1 instead of losing games 3-2 in a shootout. In other words, my concern with adding a defensive defenseman is not so much whether our defense can be a puck-moving defense, but whether Babcock will use it that way.

I think thats a fine move to make in the short-term if your goal is to make the playoffs, but if you're designing your team to be a defense-first group, then the forward core is going to need quite the overhaul, a la Los Angeles.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I'm not quite sure how 4.75M per year is a bad contract, especially for a top pairing dman. Kronwall makes mistakes but you'll be hard pressed to find a better contract for a top pairing dman, no cheating using RFA contracts. Kronwall's contract won't have a penalty if he retires early and while the NTC isn't good it's not like we're going to trade our only top pairing dman any time soon.

Oh yeah and Hamilton has produced 4 power play points in 78 minutes of PP time. Smith has produced 2 points in 38 minutes of PP time. If we give Smith the same amount of PP time as Hamilton we get.. 4 points. Kindl you have a point about but it's why 1 point difference in 20 minutes of PP time, all of them are young so I don't see why you give one the benefit of the doubt and not the other.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Kronwall. He is getting exposed on a top pairing. Oh and Dougie Hamilton just scored a power play goal for Boston. Insanity, a kid who is 19 years old is owning the 26 year old Kindl and the 24 year old Smith. How on earth is he able to do that without going through the awesome AHL?

 

[detredWINgs]

Dougies Hamilton is contributing in Boston. Shelter Sproul at EVS and let him play big mins on the PP. Hamilton has generated more offense 5v4 than Smith and Kindl this year.

Kronwall has a NTC and is on a terrible contract. You need to buy him out.

You need to trade Kindl now while he has some trade value. Not much, but the one strength the guy has is a nice shot from the point. Someone suggested paying him $3 million a year on his next deal. That's ****ing insanity. Just stop already.

Hainsey plays huge PK mins in the PEG. Our top PK unit of Hainsey and Ericsson would be very good. Hainsey can also play top 3 minutes, something Q is not good at in Detroit. Seriously, the only d-man who gets fewer mins 5v5 in Detroit than Q is Brian Lashoff. Let that marinate for a moment my friend. And Q is making close to $4 million a year for ****'s sake. Insanity, our fanbase whines about out team but cannot bear the thought of improving on mediocre talent like Q and Kindl.

Dougie Hamilton is better than Sproul.
Dougie Hamilton has linemates who are actually capable of sheltering him.
But more importantly, Dougie Hamilton is only producing at the same rate as Kindl. And yet your justification is that Sproul will be as good as Hamilton, who is only comparable offensively to Kindl, who should be traded in favor of a guy with ZERO AHL/NHL experience???

Kronwall has a terrible contract? There isn't a top 10 offensive defenseman in this league who will get less than $5M once free agency eligible.

Yeah, and Coburn plays even bigger PK minutes in Philly. Being the #1 defensive defenseman on a ****** defensive team doesn't mean anything. Hainsey is nowhere near an elite defensive defenseman.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Dougie Hamilton is better than Sproul.
Dougie Hamilton has linemates who are actually capable of sheltering him.
But more importantly, Dougie Hamilton is only producing at the same rate as Kindl. And yet your justification is that Sproul will be as good as Hamilton, who is only comparable offensively to Kindl, who should be traded in favor of a guy with ZERO AHL/NHL experience???

Kronwall has a terrible contract? There isn't a top 10 offensive defenseman in this league who will get less than $5M once free agency eligible.

Yeah, and Coburn plays even bigger PK minutes in Philly. Being the #1 defensive defenseman on a ****** defensive team doesn't mean anything. Hainsey is nowhere near an elite defensive defenseman.

Bbbut Kindl and Smith are over-ripe! They're talented and so much older! They've played in the AHL! Hamilton is getting his first games in the NHL while Kindl has been an NHL'er for 3 years. How on earth is Justin Schultz able to dominate 5v4 after only half a season in the AHL? I'm sure you are aware Schultz was a second round draft pick. Kindl and Smith were first rounders!

Hamilton is averaging 3.10 points per 60 mins 5v4
Kindl averages 1.85 points per 60 mins 5v4

So yeah, pretty similar!

We have been told this is completely impossible and prospects must max out their development in the AHL until they are completely out of waiver wire options.

 

[detredWINgs]

Bbbut Kindl and Smith are over-ripe! They're talented and so much older! They've played in the AHL! Hamilton is getting his first games in the NHL while Kindl has been an NHL'er for 3 years. How on earth is Justin Schultz able to dominate 5v4 after only half a season in the AHL? I'm sure you are aware Schultz was a second round draft pick. Kindl and Smith were first rounders!

Hamilton is averaging 3.10 points per 60 mins 5v4
Kindl averages 1.85 points per 60 mins 5v4

So yeah, pretty similar!

We have been told this is completely impossible and prospects must max out their development in the AHL until they are completely out of waiver wire options.

Did you fry your ****ing brain on 4/20? The only point you're making is that Dougie Hamilton is better than Smith and Kindl. Great. Skinner is also better than Tatar. I guess, based on that, we should presume that Athanasiou is NHL ready?

Your "argument" proves nothing. Guess what? Brodin - with no AHL experience - is producing less than Kindl. And Depres and Erixon- who had AHL experience - are playing comparably to Smith. Adam Larsson and Victor Hedman in past years - without AHL experience - were average. And DeKeyser was brought in ZOMG WITHOUT ANY AHL EXPERIENCE.

This is one of the most baseless extrapolations I've seen on this board. "Dougie Hamilton, therefore Ryan Sproul."

 

[Run the Jewels]

Did you fry your ****ing brain on 4/20? The only point you're making is that Dougie Hamilton is better than Smith and Kindl. Great. Skinner is also better than Tatar. I guess, based on that, we should presume that Athanasiou is NHL ready?

Your "argument" proves nothing. Guess what? Brodin - with no AHL experience - is producing less than Kindl. And Depres and Erixon- who had AHL experience - are playing comparably to Smith. Adam Larsson and Victor Hedman in past years - without AHL experience - were average. And DeKeyser was brought in ZOMG WITHOUT ANY AHL EXPERIENCE.

This is one of the most baseless extrapolations I've seen on this board. "Dougie Hamilton, therefore Ryan Sproul."

With Hamilton and Sproul they are both OHL defensemen of the year and are both very good offensive defensemen. Next thing you'll tell me people will never compare Ovechkin, Stamkos and Crosby despite they fact they are all Rocket Richard winners. This is obvious something you are having difficult accepting and understanding so I'll go back to what I said before about agreeing to disagree.

 

[detredWINgs]

With Hamilton and Sproul they are both OHL defensemen of the year and are both very good offensive defensemen. Next thing you'll tell me people will never compare Ovechkin, Stamkos and Crosby despite they fact they are all Rocket Richard winners. This is obvious something you are having difficult accepting and understanding so I'll go back to what I said before about agreeing to disagree.

Dude, that's not even a comparable analogy.

Why is Ryan Sproul the equivalent to Dougie Hamilton?
Ryan Ellis won the OHL award twice and has fewer points than Brendan Smith this year.
Jake Muzzin won it, and he didn't play in the NHL until he was 23.
Marc Staal won it - he's never scored 30 points in an NHL season.
Brendan Bell? Danny Syvret? Andrei Sykera?

Not to mention Ellis, Doughty, and Hamilton were all a year younger than Sproul when they won it.

The reason why you're ready to "agree to disagree" is because you don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[Heaton]

The problem is that our forwards are ill suited to play the type of game we're currently playing. Its no surprise that Cleary and Abdelkader are nearly on pace for 20 goal seasons, while Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, and Filppula are all on pace for some of their worst goal totals in at least 4-5 years.

You can't take a bunch of skilled forwards who have played a puck possession style of game for their entire careers and ask them to adjust to a "chip-and-chase" style of play in half a season. And arguably, you'd have to completely overhaul the forward corps on this team to ever be able to successfully play a chip-and-chase style in the next 2-3 years. The forwards we do have who are suited to play that game aren't talented enough, and the much of the talent we do have will never be able to play a chip-and-chase successfully.

If I could make ONE move on this team for next season, it would be somehow replacing Kyle Quincey with Brian Campbell (yes, ****** contract and all) and having Babcock revert to a puck possession style of play.

I think this is a bit of a cop out, this is the same system we've been playing for years, the same system that Datsyuk and Z have played when they were lighting it up earlier in the year.

The bottom line is our top guys aren't producing at the time we need them the most. I'm not putting all of the blame on them, but just like the playoffs, if your big guns don't show up on the scoresheet, you go home.

 

[Frk It]

The bottom line is our top guys aren't producing at the time we need them the most. I'm not putting all of the blame on them, but just like the playoffs, if your big guns don't show up on the scoresheet, you go home.

This is what I think our biggest problem is, and is mostly the reason why I created this thread. Too many quality scoring chances squandered by our best players in crunch time when we need them to convert, and too often.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I actually put together the Cap Geek numbers in a previous post. Not one person has criticized the actual dollar amounts I had for any of these three players. As usual you offer nothing in the way of suggestions where you have to do any real thought. Nope, just use a super cute emoticon and say ludicrous things like voiding Edler and Getzlaf's contract. That might be the most ridiculous thing I've read on these boards in all the years I've been here and trust me, there have been some doozies.

If you want to actually talk hockey please feel free.

You have your cap geek numbers nowhere in this thread. I don't engage in capgeek posting for a reason. It almost invariably has people making 7 dream moves that are totally unrealistic and completely ignoring the reality of how the NHL operates.

Half of these suggestions are ludicrous on the face of what we know about player demands and the likelihood they would ever truly be considered and the impossibility of pulling all of them off in the short time frame of an off-season. It is sensationalist NHL 13 movement.

 

[Run the Jewels]

You have your cap geek numbers nowhere in this thread. I don't engage in capgeek posting for a reason. It almost invariably has people making 7 dream moves that are totally unrealistic and completely ignoring the reality of how the NHL operates.

Half of these suggestions are ludicrous on the face of what we know about player demands and the likelihood they would ever truly be considered and the impossibility of pulling all of them off in the short time frame of an off-season. It is sensationalist NHL 13 movement.

Well no offense but if you don't do CapGeek then who really cares what your opinion is on my CapGeek roster? Seriously, it'd be like me commenting on Detroit Tiger threads here and talking about how little interest I have in the Tigers while ripping on someone's comments regarding the baseball club. I'd admit to being a total ass if I did anything along those lines.

 

[RedWinger10]

We need a net front presence and we need to drive the net more. Far too many of our shots are perimeter shots along the boards. We simply need better quality scoring chances.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Dude, that's not even a comparable analogy.

Why is Ryan Sproul the equivalent to Dougie Hamilton?
Ryan Ellis won the OHL award twice and has fewer points than Brendan Smith this year.
Jake Muzzin won it, and he didn't play in the NHL until he was 23.
Marc Staal won it - he's never scored 30 points in an NHL season.
Brendan Bell? Danny Syvret? Andrei Sykera?

Not to mention Ellis, Doughty, and Hamilton were all a year younger than Sproul when they won it.

The reason why you're ready to "agree to disagree" is because you don't have a leg to stand on.

You're being hugely annoying. I'm going to make one more comment on this.

Winning the OHL d-man of the year is a good indicator you are capable of holding your own in the NHL. It's really ****ing simple:

• Ryan Ellis has spent 29 games in the AHL. He's 4 years younger than Kindl and 2 years younger than Smith. He's putting up 1.98 points per 60 mins 5v4. That's more than Kindl. Are you really suggesting he needs further development in the AHL? Is that your strong take?
  
• Drew Doughty. I personally like Slava Voynov better as an offensive d-man but did Doughty need any AHL seasoning? Has his career been hampered going directly to the NHL?
  
• Marc Staal went from the OHL to the NHL with no AHL development time. Are you suggesting he'd be an offensive defenseman if he played in the AHL?

If you win the Max Kaminsky award you have a pretty good shot at being able to make a successful transition to the NHL. Some do, some do not. I'd personally like for Sproul to get a shot since we have a ****** collection of offensive defensemen on our team.

I also don't think there's any data to show that the AHL is some magical development league that turns guys into great d-men. The coaching is generally terrible and the quality of play is incredibly uneven given you have very young guys along with grown men in their late 20s to early 30s who will never sniff the NHL and as a result add nothing as far as skill or quality of play. I don't think anyone would suggest the NHL doesn't have the best coaching in the world. I am a Blashill fan but he couldn't hack the NHL. To his credit he admitted it and he's doing a solid job in the AHL.

 

[detredWINgs]

I think this is a bit of a cop out, this is the same system we've been playing for years, the same system that Datsyuk and Z have played when they were lighting it up earlier in the year.

The bottom line is our top guys aren't producing at the time we need them the most. I'm not putting all of the blame on them, but just like the playoffs, if your big guns don't show up on the scoresheet, you go home.

Have you honestly not noticed the evolution that has taken place on the back-end over the course of this season?

We started out this season with what was thought to be a defense packed with two-way defenseman and quasi-offensive defenseman: Cola, White, Kronwall, Smith, and Quincey.

But then reality happened. Through the first 17 games of the season, we gave up 3 goals on average per game, and in particular, there was a stretch of 6 games where we gave up 3.5 goals per game.

Shortly thereafter, White became a regular healthy scratch, Smith began to favor an off-the-glass approach and Quincey evolved into a defense-first defenseman. NONE of those players were signed to play defensive hockey, and White actually went on record saying Babcock asked him to change his game.

Hell, there was a point where Brian Lashoff was playing over White and Cola when they were both healthy.

Brendan Smith had 7 points in 14 games last year. This year, he has 7 points in 30 games.
After 25 games last year, Ian White had 13 points. This year after 25 games, he has 4.
Kyle Quincey had 3 points in his first 18 games with us last year. This year? 3 points after 32 games.

Kronwall started off hot, and now has 0 points in 12 out of his last 15 games. Kindl has 0 points in 10 of his last 15 games.

Our GAA for the first half of the season was about 2.9, for the second half its 2.4.

 

[Bench]

Take a look at the top 6. Without Franzen sniping, it's totally toothless. Brunner started hot, but returned to earth. Filppula has been ineffective.

Combine that with a lack of offensive production from the blueline and you're relying on Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Kronwall to do all your heavy lifting. And that's just not a recipe for much success.

Those who wanted Semin are vindicated fairly heavily this season. Despite their critics, Bertuzzi and Sammy would have helped this team this year. Certainly better than Abdelkader and Cleary getting those minutes.

There's no quick solutions this year. The only immediate option is to throw Tatar and Nyquist to the top 6 and pray, but that's a legitimate hail mary.

 

[detredWINgs]

You're being hugely annoying. I'm going to make one more comment on this.

Winning the OHL d-man of the year is a good indicator you are capable of holding your own in the NHL. It's really ****ing simple:

• Ryan Ellis has spent 29 games in the AHL. He's 4 years younger than Kindl and 2 years younger than Smith. He's putting up 1.98 points per 60 mins 5v4. That's more than Kindl. Are you really suggesting he needs further development in the AHL? Is that your strong take?
  
• Drew Doughty. I personally like Slava Voynov better as an offensive d-man but did Doughty need any AHL seasoning? Has his career been hampered going directly to the NHL?
  
• Marc Staal went from the OHL to the NHL with no AHL development time. Are you suggesting he'd be an offensive defenseman if he played in the AHL?

If you win the Max Kaminsky award you have a pretty good shot at being able to make a successful transition to the NHL. Some do, some do not. I'd personally like for Sproul to get a shot since we have a ****** collection of offensive defensemen on our team.

I also don't think there's any data to show that the AHL is some magical development league that turns guys into great d-men. The coaching is generally terrible and the quality of play is incredibly uneven given you have very young guys along with grown men in their late 20s to early 30s who will never sniff the NHL and as a result add nothing as far as skill or quality of play. I don't think anyone would suggest the NHL doesn't have the best coaching in the world. I am a Blashill fan but he couldn't hack the NHL. To his credit he admitted it and he's doing a solid job in the AHL.

I'm only annoying because I'm pointing out the endless holes in your argument. You want to say that Sproul is worthy of top 4 ice time and would out-produce Kindl next year just because he won the Kaminsky. Its a terrible argument and, not surprisingly, no one thinks Sproul is ready for a top 4 NHL role but you.

Doughty and Hamilton won the OHL award as 18 year olds.
Ellis won it (the first time) as a 17 year old.
Sproul? As a 20 year old.
Marc Staal won it as a 20 year old...because he was a stud defensively.

Now lets look at the guys that won the Kaminsky as over-agers.

Jake Muzzin won it at 21.
Andrej Sekera won it at 19.
Danny Syvret won it at 19.
Wizniewski won it at 19.
Brendan Bell won it at 20.

And the worst part is, you aren't just saying Sproul could play in the NHL next year. You're saying Sproul could play in the NHL next year and put up nearly 30 points

There are ZERO cases of an over-ager winning the Kaminsky in the past 20 years, skipping the AHL, and then putting up ~30 points as a rookie. Hell, there are ZERO cases of an over-ager winning the Kaminsky and going straight to the NHL. If you want to use the Kaminsky as an indicator of what a player is to become, then the best we can hope for is Brian Campbell - who spent several years in the AHL before becoming what he is.

 

[Frk It]

Hell, there are ZERO cases of an over-ager winning the Kaminsky and going straight to the NHL.

You said it in your own post... Marc Staal won it as an over-ager then went to the NHL... jus sayin'

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Take a look at the top 6. Without Franzen sniping, it's totally toothless. Brunner started hot, but returned to earth. Filppula has been ineffective.

Combine that with a lack of offensive production from the blueline and you're relying on Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Kronwall to do all your heavy lifting. And that's just not a recipe for much success.

Those who wanted Semin are vindicated fairly heavily this season. Despite their critics, Bertuzzi and Sammy would have helped this team this year. Certainly better than Abdelkader and Cleary getting those minutes.

There's no quick solutions this year. The only immediate option is to throw Tatar and Nyquist to the top 6 and pray, but that's a legitimate hail mary.

I'm not sure Semin would have been the solution. I think the main problem is that Wings forward units are not very hard on the opposing D. The team has an almost non-existent forecheck and not enough offense comes from getting the opponent to cough up the puck in their own zone.

Historically, D and Z have been beasts in that department, but they look pretty worn out this season (Z in particular). Abby, Franzen, Filppula, Cleary, and Brunner aren't making themselves hard to play against either. This team really needs a 4th line that can make life miserable for the opposing D and that just isn't happening most nights.

Without that, the Wings are mostly boxed out and stuck taking low quality chances.

 

[19 for president]

The problem with this is, if we simply get a defensive dman for Kronner, is that going to change Babcock's philosophy? IMO, if we add a defensive defenseman, then I think you're basically inviting Babcock to commit to a defense-first system and bank on winning games 2-1 instead of losing games 3-2 in a shootout. In other words, my concern with adding a defensive defenseman is not so much whether our defense can be a puck-moving defense, but whether Babcock will use it that way.

I think thats a fine move to make in the short-term if your goal is to make the playoffs, but if you're designing your team to be a defense-first group, then the forward core is going to need quite the overhaul, a la Los Angeles.

I think at this point Babs isn't going to change his philosophy honestly, and I don't think Holland is going to change his either. I predict one of them will be gone within the next season.

What I do think is that by pairing Kronner with a defensive dman it allows him to jump into the play more and be a better offensive dman and more physical. This would be huge for the Wings in terms of jump starting the play. Think what Raffy was able to do when paired with Lids. I mean landing a true top 2 dman that can play both ways would be the best, but I don't see any of those out there. I mean Suter would have been a perfect partner for Kronner but that didn't happen.

Adding another pure offensive dman means that we have only two dmen that are above average defensively, and one is a rookie (Dekeyser). Getting Kronner off the pk will do wonders for the PK. He and E simply cough up the puck too much when pressured and neither thinks the game quick enough to make up for the others mistakes.

With Babs as the coach the Wings are never gonna play a run and gun system so adding another true offensive dman will just mean that we have another player that doesn't fit the system.