Lack of scoring/finishing

[Frk It]

Most of us thought going into this season we were going to be fine offensively, and struggle defensively. This team has really struggled to score goals, and maybe some of that could be attributed to injuries, but this team has seriously underachieved offensively in my opinion. The guys who are supposed to score all haven't done it enough, and especially not when it matters. This season would be a lot different if our best players put their shots on goal more late in these tight one-goal or tie games.

Here are some stats for the team

24th in Goals for/game (2.43)
25th in team shooting percentage (8.15%)

What does everyone think? What is the solution to fix this problem next year?

Click to read more...

 

[PullHard]

I think a lot of that has to do with the defense actually.

A lot of the time we come out of our zone after passing it back and forth several times.

It used to be that Lidstrom, Rafalski, or a sheltered Kronwall could zing it up the ice for a quick transition,

but now we take ages to get up the ice. Slows everything down for the opposition, makes it easier to neutralize our offense. We just try to get it deep and win battles, but that doesn't really work for us.

edit: so keep developing our defense, they have the potential to be a strong group. Patience required but in 2 or 3 years it should start to be noticeably better.

 

[Run the Jewels]

1. We don't have an elite offensive defenseman like we've had for the past two decades in Coffey, Lidstrom, Schneider and Rafalski. Kronwall has 0 points over the past 6 games and is a career worst -10 right now.

2. We don't have a legit sniper. Brunner had a nice month or so, Mule gets into scoring mode when he feels like going to the hard areas, and Z has clearly lost something with regard to speed and his shot.

3. We tried to address this need by attempting to sign Zach Parise, Rick Nash and Jaromir Jagr and couldn't get any of those guys.

4. Tomas Tatar actually has the highest point production per 60 mins at even strength in Detroit so you'd think a team that struggles to score might want to have that guy on the roster. You'd be wrong.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Oh, solution to fix the problem. I addressed this in the GM thread.

1. Sign Michael Ryder and Brad Boyes, both right-handed shots and guys who are pure snipers who have proven themselves at the NHL level. They didn't have one nice month of NHL play like Brunner.

2. Bring up Sproul and let him get the best coaching in the world, something that will never happen in Grand Rapids.

3. Sign Sergei Gonchar to a short 2 year contract. He can quarterback the power play until Sproul is ready to dominate.

4. Bring up Jarnkork and Tatar and put them on a third line with Gus Nyquist. They should be a matchup nightmare for any team and quickly address the complete lack of scoring.

 

[Vladdy84]

Oh, solution to fix the problem. I addressed this in the GM thread.

1. Sign Michael Ryder and Brad Boyes, both right-handed shots and guys who are pure snipers who have proven themselves at the NHL level. They didn't have one nice month of NHL play like Brunner.

2. Bring up Sproul and let him get the best coaching in the world, something that will never happen in Grand Rapids.

3. Sign Sergei Gonchar to a short 2 year contract. He can quarterback the power play until Sproul is ready to dominate.

4. Bring up Jarnkork and Tatar and put them on a third line with Gus Nyquist. They should be a matchup nightmare for any team and quickly address the complete lack of scoring.

 

[aar000n]

Days needs to score now. I get he can pass but we need goals. He needs to be selfish.

 

[Frk It]

Don't know why you are making that face in regards to Gonchar. Guy has been a .5 ppg player pretty much his whole career, and he would improve our PP even at 39 years old.

 

[Frk It]

Days needs to score now. I get he can pass but we need goals. He needs to be selfish.

He needs to hit the net when he gets grade A scoring chances.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Cute, are you capable of intelligent conversation?

So yeah, offensive d-men.

For guys who play 1+ mins 5v4, Jay Bouwmeester is 9th in points per 60 mins. So top 10. I'm guessing you are one of those people who was certain he wasn't worth trading for.

Know who's right behind Bouwmeester? Ryan Suter, this year's Norris trophy winner. Didn't get him either.

You know who else is in the top 10? Justin Schultz, another guy Holland wasn't able to acquire.

Gonchar is right behind Drew Doughty in point production per 60 mins 5v4. He's ahead of Shea Weber, Dan Boyle, Alex Edler and Zach Bogosian. Oh yeah, I recall us possibly being interseted in trading for Bogosian but that never happened.

 

[Xvash2]

Top players aren't getting it done. When Datsyuk, Filppula, and Zetterberg are putting up double-digit scoreless streaks, something is very very wrong.

 

[Run the Jewels]

One more post: Dougie Hamilton is generating 3.10 points per 60 minutes 5v4 this year with just under 2 mins of PP time. Only Nik Kronwall among Detroit d-men put up more points and that's with 3.45 mins of power play time. So there's reason to think Sproul could be a better power play option next season than Smith and Kindl.

 

[PullHard]

One more post: Dougie Hamilton is generating 3.10 points per 60 minutes 5v4 this year with just under 2 mins of PP time. Only Nik Kronwall among Detroit d-men put up more points and that's with 3.45 mins of power play time. So there's reason to think Sproul could be a better power play option next season than Smith and Kindl.

I'm pretty sure you have me on ignore, but

OHL d award does not mean that Sproul = Hamilton,

that is pretty obvious, no?

Hamilton was a top 10 pick, probably should've been top 5.

Sproul is much more raw.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

I think a lot of that has to do with the defense actually.

A lot of the time we come out of our zone after passing it back and forth several times.

It used to be that Lidstrom, Rafalski, or a sheltered Kronwall could zing it up the ice for a quick transition,

but now we take ages to get up the ice. Slows everything down for the opposition, makes it easier to neutralize our offense. We just try to get it deep and win battles, but that doesn't really work for us.

edit: so keep developing our defense, they have the potential to be a strong group. Patience required but in 2 or 3 years it should start to be noticeably better.

I think that's a big part of it but the other big part is that it seems like we're trying to win games 1-0, or 2-1, like we're playing not to lose, instead of playing to win. I think part of that is that we need every point at this part of the season and we no longer have the personal to out score other teams. We have 2 top line forwards, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, 5 2nd line forwards in Filppula, Frazen, Brunner, Nyquist & Bertuzzi, 4 3rd liners, Helm, Tatar, Cleary, Samuelsson, and the rest are 4th liners/extra forwards.

We have the depth to compete when healthy it's just when your 2nd liners like Filppula & Brunner go cold like they have normally your depth steps up and replaces them. Our problem is our depth guys, Abdelkader, Cleary & Miller, are already being asked to produce more then they should because of injuries to Bertuzzi & Samuelsson. Having Bert in the top 6 forces Abdelkader down the lineup, I'm not sure where Sammy would fit maybe on the 2nd line instead of Cleary? The point being that without the depth stepping up & our 2nd liners not producing we have to try to win games 2-1 & 1-0 otherwise we won't get anything. It sucks for us because it's boring hockey but it's not Babcock's job to make it exciting, it's his job to try & win as many games as he can.

 

[detredWINgs]

Top players aren't getting it done. When Datsyuk, Filppula, and Zetterberg are putting up double-digit scoreless streaks, something is very very wrong.

Calling Filppula a "top player" is your first mistake. He belongs in the fold with Nik Antropov, Alex Steen, Alexei Ponikarovsky, and Matt Stajan.

If any of those guys are considered "top players" on your team, then you're in trouble. Just ask Toronto.

 

[Frk It]

I'm pretty sure you have me on ignore, but

OHL d award does not mean that Sproul = Hamilton,

that is pretty obvious, no?

Hamilton was a top 10 pick, probably should've been top 5.

Sproul is much more raw.

Hamilton was a high pick because he is more of a complete package. Both players were productive junior players offensively so it is not impossible to say Sproul would bring production with him when he comes to the NHL. Similar to the way Dougie has.

 

[Winger98]

Also, we already have three younger guys we're trying to break in, adding a fourth in Sproul is asking for trouble. I'm on-board with bringing Gonchar in, but he can round out a top6 with Kronwall, E, Smith, Kindl, and Dekeyser. Let Sproul find his defensive game with a year or two in GR, along with XO and maybe Marchenko and Jenson.

 

[PullHard]

I think that's a big part of it but the other big part is that it seems like we're trying to win games 1-0, or 2-1, like we're playing not to lose, instead of playing to win. I think part of that is that we need every point at this part of the season and we no longer have the personal to out score other teams. We have 2 top line forwards, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, 5 2nd line forwards in Filppula, Frazen, Brunner, Nyquist & Bertuzzi, 4 3rd liners, Helm, Tatar, Cleary, Samuelsson, and the rest are 4th liners/extra forwards.

We have the depth to compete when healthy it's just when your 2nd liners like Filppula & Brunner go cold like they have normally your depth steps up and replaces them. Our problem is our depth guys, Abdelkader, Cleary & Miller, are already being asked to produce more then they should because of injuries to Bertuzzi & Samuelsson. Having Bert in the top 6 forces Abdelkader down the lineup, I'm not sure where Sammy would fit maybe on the 2nd line instead of Cleary? The point being that without the depth stepping up & our 2nd liners not producing we have to try to win games 2-1 & 1-0 otherwise we won't get anything. It sucks for us because it's boring hockey but it's not Babcock's job to make it exciting, it's his job to try & win as many games as he can.

Yep. I think that coaching philosophy came this season when it was obvious we didn't have that same transition game. So now we just chip pucks in and hope to grind out wings.

Hamilton was a high pick because he is more of a complete package. Both players were productive junior players offensively so it is not impossible to say Sproul would bring production with him when he comes to the NHL. Similar to the way Dougie has.

Oh I'm not doubting Sproul's offense, I'm just saying bringing Sproul up as soon as next season would potentially do more harm than good because he is no where near ready for NHL level Dplay, he isn't as good as Hamilton in that sense. We already have enough young/new Dmen, no need to throw any more of them to the wolves, want Sproul to have good confidence once he cracks the NHL.

 

[detredWINgs]

Cute, are you capable of intelligent conversation?

So yeah, offensive d-men.

For guys who play 1+ mins 5v4, Jay Bouwmeester is 9th in points per 60 mins. So top 10. I'm guessing you are one of those people who was certain he wasn't worth trading for.

Know who's right behind Bouwmeester? Ryan Suter, this year's Norris trophy winner. Didn't get him either.

You know who else is in the top 10? Justin Schultz, another guy Holland wasn't able to acquire.

Gonchar is right behind Drew Doughty in point production per 60 mins 5v4. He's ahead of Shea Weber, Dan Boyle, Alex Edler and Zach Bogosian. Oh yeah, I recall us possibly being interseted in trading for Bogosian but that never happened.

Gonchar is old, slow, and injury prone. Is he a great offensive defenseman? Sure. But all you have to do is be a step above the casual hockey fan to know that the production of players in their late 30s can drop like a rock from season to season.

Not to mention it further destabilizes our defense. We have way too few defensively sound defenseman (if we have any) to accommodate yet another Niklas Kronwall.

 

[PullHard]

to be fair WIN, Gonchar looks as he good as he ever has this season, but I agree that bringing a 39yo to attempt to fix our problems is not wise, and should be avoided.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Gonchar is old, slow, and injury prone. Is he a great offensive defenseman? Sure. But all you have to do is be a step above the casual hockey fan to know that the production of players in their late 30s can drop like a rock from season to season.

Not to mention it further destabilizes our defense. We have way too few defensively sound defenseman (if we have any) to accommodate yet another Niklas Kronwall.

We have been very good at limited SOG over the past 5 periods + OT last night. DeKeyser and Ericsson are very good defensive d-men and I am not a Q fan but he's been playing better lately.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Oh, solution to fix the problem. I addressed this in the GM thread.

1. Sign Michael Ryder and Brad Boyes, both right-handed shots and guys who are pure snipers who have proven themselves at the NHL level. They didn't have one nice month of NHL play like Brunner.

2. Bring up Sproul and let him get the best coaching in the world, something that will never happen in Grand Rapids.

3. Sign Sergei Gonchar to a short 2 year contract. He can quarterback the power play until Sproul is ready to dominate.

4. Bring up Jarnkork and Tatar and put them on a third line with Gus Nyquist. They should be a matchup nightmare for any team and quickly address the complete lack of scoring.

So your going to have Jarnkork, Tatar and Nyquist on the 3rd line that's all fine and dandy but If Helm is healthy for next season He's our 3rd line Center. This would be fine if Helmer is unable to come back next season.

 

[detredWINgs]

The problem is that our forwards are ill suited to play the type of game we're currently playing. Its no surprise that Cleary and Abdelkader are nearly on pace for 20 goal seasons, while Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, and Filppula are all on pace for some of their worst goal totals in at least 4-5 years.

You can't take a bunch of skilled forwards who have played a puck possession style of game for their entire careers and ask them to adjust to a "chip-and-chase" style of play in half a season. And arguably, you'd have to completely overhaul the forward corps on this team to ever be able to successfully play a chip-and-chase style in the next 2-3 years. The forwards we do have who are suited to play that game aren't talented enough, and the much of the talent we do have will never be able to play a chip-and-chase successfully.

If I could make ONE move on this team for next season, it would be somehow replacing Kyle Quincey with Brian Campbell (yes, ****** contract and all) and having Babcock revert to a puck possession style of play.

 

[detredWINgs]

We have been very good at limited SOG over the past 5 periods + OT last night. DeKeyser and Ericsson are very good defensive d-men and I am not a Q fan but he's been playing better lately.

So we're going to demote Smith? And if we alternate Smith and DeKeyser, then half the time we're running with 4 offensive defenseman - none of which are good defensively - Ericsson, and Quincey?

I see what you're getting at, I just don't think adding Gonchar is the way to go.

 

[Run the Jewels]

So we're going to demote Smith? And if we alternate Smith and DeKeyser, then half the time we're running with 4 offensive defenseman - none of which are good defensively - Ericsson, and Quincey?

I see what you're getting at, I just don't think adding Gonchar is the way to go.

Eh, I think we need a reboot on the offensive d-men front.

EVS pairings:
Ericsson-Gonchar
Hainsey-Sproul
DeKeyser-Smith
Extras: Lashoff-Colaiacovo

Compliance buyout on Kronner
Trade Q and Kindl

First power play unit
Gonchar-Sproul

Second power play unit
DeKeyser/Colaiacovo-Smith

First PK unit
Ericsson-Hainsey

Second PK unit
DeKeyser-Smith

Not saying it is going to happen, but it would work out pretty well.

• One defensive and one offensive d-man on each pairing
• Three young guys in DeKeyser, Sproul and Smith who should develop rapidly
• You become bigger and faster with the only exception being Gonchar's lack of speed
• The second PP unit isn't perfect but you still have Sammy as a fallback option

I really do believe we need a legit offensive defenseman or two to drive the offense. That's the biggest difference from this season to the previous two where we had Lidstrom and Rafalski.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Oh, solution to fix the problem. I addressed this in the GM thread.

1. Sign Michael Ryder and Brad Boyes, both right-handed shots and guys who are pure snipers who have proven themselves at the NHL level. They didn't have one nice month of NHL play like Brunner.

2. Bring up Sproul and let him get the best coaching in the world, something that will never happen in Grand Rapids.

3. Sign Sergei Gonchar to a short 2 year contract. He can quarterback the power play until Sproul is ready to dominate.

4. Bring up Jarnkork and Tatar and put them on a third line with Gus Nyquist. They should be a matchup nightmare for any team and quickly address the complete lack of scoring.

While you are doing that why don't you void Edler's and Getzlaf's contract and make a provision where the Detroit Red Wings don't have to hit the cap in the new CBA. This is exactly the kind of hilarious if I was GM talk that makes me laugh. It ignores the obvious contract constraints, salary demands, and salary cap constrictions. If this is what you would do that is great, it is also totally impossible from a feasibility stand point.

Also for the record Ryder, Boyes and Gonchar will all take significant over-payment for their services. Aside from Boyes this year (to re-inflate his value) none of them has ever really signed for an awesome contract. Ryder has outperformed his Dallas deal, but it was more than most people thought he would get going out onto the market. More importantly what I am getting at is they have signed with the team that offered them the most cheddar.