OT: LA Angels of Anaheim Baseball Discussion (continued again)

[The Mighty Duck Man]

No, I want good pitchers, I don't care who or how old they are. You're the one that seems to think the only type of pitchers a GM can bring in to help a team are old, and that they will immediately fall off and be not worth their contracts/whatever we gave up to acquire them in a trade. Those pitchers that I named were good for us during the Dipoto era, and when they started to decline a bit after Eppler took over, he should've took the initiative, like Dipoto did, and went out and got arms to help the team. He chose not to, and this is why we are where we are. If you're too dense to be able to accept the fact that Eppler refusal to bring in good pitchers is why this team can't eclipse 500, and instead want to ignore reality and get excited about his "rebuild" and blame Dipoto for everything that's wrong with with the team, there's no use trying to get anything through to you.

There's nothing to get through to me because I'm right and you're not. The whole thread is full of you being pissy about them not signing big names. It's not the only way to add quality pitching but it's by far the easiest, probably Eppler's most realistic option and also the worst one. You just can't seem to realize that most of your ideas suck so its Eppler who has to be bad, not you.

I don't think he's refusing to bring in good pitchers, I think he's refusing to sign high priced guys, which is good, and you think is bad. It's that simple.

 

[MMC]

There's nothing to get through to me because I'm right and you're not. The whole thread is full of you being pissy about them not signing big names. It's not the only way to add quality pitching but it's by far the easiest, probably Eppler's most realistic option and also the worst one. You just can't seem to realize that most of your ideas suck so its Eppler who has to be bad, not you.

I don't think he's refusing to bring in good pitchers, I think he's refusing to sign high priced guys, which is good, and you think is bad. It's that simple.

Nice to see that you still can't read. I don't care if we sign or trade for someone. I care about bringing in guys to help the team win, instead of giving 11 million dollars to Matt f***ing Harvey who is a known headcase and hasn't been good in years. But yeah, me knowing and saying that contract was a mistake and instead wishing we not make Matt Harvey and Trevor Cahill the highest paid starters on one year deals and Cody Allen the highest paid reliever on a one year deal, we actually spend that kind of money on someone good, or pay the lesser free agents fair value, clearly I'm the problem and not the GM who thought these signings were good ideas .

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Nice to see that you still can't read. I don't care if we sign or trade for someone. I care about bringing in guys to help the team win, instead of giving 11 million dollars to Matt ****ing Harvey who is a known headcase and hasn't been good in years. But yeah, me knowing and saying that contract was a mistake and instead wishing we not make Matt Harvey and Trevor Cahill the highest paid starters on one year deals and Cody Allen the highest paid reliever on a one year deal, we actually spend that kind of money on someone good, or pay the lesser free agents fair value, clearly I'm the problem and not the GM who thought these signings were good ideas .

I can read just fine, its exactly what you want. Unless you expect to be able to trade for good pitching without giving much up in return, which also wouldnt surprise me given your knowledge of the sport.

I have no problem on one year fliers like that. They probably weren't going to work out well but it also doesn't affect anything going forward. Much preferable to a potentially crippling long-term deal that maybe helps make a playoff push this year and kills the ability to make moves in the future. You really don't seem to understand any of that, eh?

 

[MMC]

I can read just fine, its exactly what you want. Unless you expect to be able to trade for good pitching without giving much up in return, which also wouldnt surprise me given your knowledge of the sport.

I have no problem on one year fliers like that. They probably weren't going to work out well but it also doesn't affect anything going forward. Much preferable to a potentially crippling long-term deal that maybe helps make a playoff push this year and kills the ability to make moves in the future. You really don't seem to understand any of that, eh?

I never indicated that either. I'm perfectly willing to give up the required assets to bring in quality pitching. You're reading what I'm saying and twisting it to fit your narrative. Take a look at these articles:

The Ten Most Expensive One-Year Free Agent Relievers

The 10 Most Expensive One-Year Free Agent Starters

Look at the names below our guys, and tell me why these contracts were OK. And don't try to say "there's no bad one year deals!", because that's total bullshit. These signings indicate that Eppler is completely unable to evaluate both the market for these players, and their pitching abilities, which should concern the hell out of you and any other fan of a team with this guy as their GM. And saying "at least it's not a long term deal!" doesn't make them good either. Eppler, after 4 years, has refused to bring in quality MLB pitching, and every attempt he's made to try to bring in a proven MLB pitcher to give both the team and our prospects some help has ended very poorly.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I never indicated that either. I'm perfectly willing to give up the required assets to bring in quality pitching. You're reading what I'm saying and twisting it to fit your narrative. Take a look at these articles:

The Ten Most Expensive One-Year Free Agent Relievers

The 10 Most Expensive One-Year Free Agent Starters

Look at the names below our guys, and tell me why these contracts were OK. And don't try to say "there's no bad one year deals!", because that's total bull****. These signings indicate that Eppler is completely unable to evaluate both the market for these players, and their pitching abilities, which should concern the hell out of you and any other fan of a team with this guy as their GM. And saying "at least it's not a long term deal!" doesn't make them good either. Eppler, after 4 years, has refused to bring in quality MLB pitching, and every attempt he's made to try to bring in a proven MLB pitcher to give both the team and our prospects some help has ended very poorly.

Lol what the hell are you talking about? Yeah, I'm sure you are willing to give up the required assets, probably were on board with trading Trout in 2010 too. You want instant gratification because you don't understand things, thats ok. Nothing wrong with being simple.

As for the one year part, I'm totally ok with using that to go for the highest upside, which Harvey and Allen gave. Either way, they're stop-gap measures, key word being stop-gap, and often don't work out. And that's not at all what you want lol.

 

[MMC]

Lol what the hell are you talking about? Yeah, I'm sure you are willing to give up the required assets, probably were on board with trading Trout in 2010 too. You want instant gratification because you don't understand things, thats ok. Nothing wrong with being simple.

As for the one year part, I'm totally ok with using that to go for the highest upside, which Harvey and Allen gave. Either way, they're stop-gap measures, key word being stop-gap, and often don't work out. And that's not at all what you want lol.

Yeah, I want the required pitchers to help the team with the best player in his prime become a playoff team "because I don't understand things". I'm done debating this. I like you as a poster, but there's no sense trying to debate this with you when you're going to twist what I'm saying to come up with your own conclusions, and act like I'm an idiot because I want our GM to improve the pitching.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Yeah, I want the required pitchers to help the team with the best player in his prime become a playoff team "because I don't understand things". I'm done debating this. I like you as a poster, but there's no sense trying to debate this with you when you're going to twist what I'm saying to come up with your own conclusions, and act like I'm an idiot because I want our GM to improve the pitching.

That doesn't, you just don't seem to get that patience is required and it takes time. They're in this position because it was neglected for years and the Angels have had terrible luck with the few guys they had.

You also do seem to not understand the team and/or the sport, given you think the team was primed to contend for years until Eppler got there and ruined everything. This is a take that makes zero sense in reality but does explain why you're mad they're not signing big names.

 

[MMC]

 

[Hockey Duckie]

That doesn't, you just don't seem to get that patience is required and it takes time. They're in this position because it was neglected for years and the Angels have had terrible luck with the few guys they had.

You also do seem to not understand the team and/or the sport, given you think the team was primed to contend for years until Eppler got there and ruined everything. This is a take that makes zero sense in reality but does explain why you're mad they're not signing big names.

Under the previous GM, he fast tracked pitchers... some of the pitchers that Eppler's been relying on such as Skaggs, Heaney, Tropeano, Middleton, and newly called up Suarez. Eppler traded away quite a few pitchers too to acquire hitters. I was along for the ride b/c that's what a fan does. After three years, we can reflect. GM Eppler's not done a great job developing or cultivating pitchers. If you scroll to previous pages, then you'll see how I was able to detect that under the previous GM that his club prevented opposing teams from scoring over 700 run in three of the four seasons. Currently, Eppler's clubs have allowed over 700 runs in all his first three seasons and is on pace to surpass the 700 runs allowed threshold once again this year.

You call patience, but neglect DiPoto did so much in a short time. He took the Angels to the playoffs in his third year. All Eppler had to do was to improve upon it. We already know this... he hasn't. In fact, in his four years of drafting, Eppler hasn't drafted a pitcher in the first round. Under DiPoto, he only had two first round picks (because owner Arte forfeited two first rounders for free agents) and one of them was spent on a pitcher. That pitcher was then traded to the Braves for Simmons. We've traded other pitching prospects to acquire other players such as acquiring Upton.

If Ohtani wasn't a hitter, then I doubt Eppler would go after him. Why is that? Eppler didn't go after Kikuchi.

So notice the pattern. Spend first round draft picks not on pitchers. Don't trade for starting pitchers. Don't sign established starting pitchers who are still successful. The person who neglected the pitching is Eppler. DiPoto traded away hitters for pitchers and his teams finished above .500 three times as well as won the AL West. In fact, in DiPoto's three years in Seattle, they've finished over .500 twice. They're in a complete rebuild mode now with their farm team ranking above the Angels. DiPoto has a two-year project plan to compete for the playoffs. We're in year four of trying to be a .500 team.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Under the previous GM, he fast tracked pitchers... some of the pitchers that Eppler's been relying on such as Skaggs, Heaney, Tropeano, Middleton, and newly called up Suarez. Eppler traded away quite a few pitchers too to acquire hitters. I was along for the ride b/c that's what a fan does. After three years, we can reflect. GM Eppler's not done a great job developing or cultivating pitchers. If you scroll to previous pages, then you'll see how I was able to detect that under the previous GM that his club prevented opposing teams from scoring over 700 run in three of the four seasons. Currently, Eppler's clubs have allowed over 700 runs in all his first three seasons and is on pace to surpass the 700 runs allowed threshold once again this year.

You call patience, but neglect DiPoto did so much in a short time. He took the Angels to the playoffs in his third year. All Eppler had to do was to improve upon it. We already know this... he hasn't. In fact, in his four years of drafting, Eppler hasn't drafted a pitcher in the first round. Under DiPoto, he only had two first round picks (because owner Arte forfeited two first rounders for free agents) and one of them was spent on a pitcher. That pitcher was then traded to the Braves for Simmons. We've traded other pitching prospects to acquire other players such as acquiring Upton.

If Ohtani wasn't a hitter, then I doubt Eppler would go after him. Why is that? Eppler didn't go after Kikuchi.

So notice the pattern. Spend first round draft picks not on pitchers. Don't trade for starting pitchers. Don't sign established starting pitchers who are still successful. The person who neglected the pitching is Eppler. DiPoto traded away hitters for pitchers and his teams finished above .500 three times as well as won the AL West. In fact, in DiPoto's three years in Seattle, they've finished over .500 twice. They're in a complete rebuild mode now with their farm team ranking above the Angels. DiPoto has a two-year project plan to compete for the playoffs. We're in year four of trying to be a .500 team.

Lol DiPoto didn't take the Angels to anything. It's been brought up before and ignored by you, the biggest contributor to that playoff team that DiPoto brought in was the same guy you insist he had nothing to do with signing.

Eppler couldn't improve on that playoff team because Reagins and DiPoto both left the cupboard bare and most of the key contributors in 2014 were 30+. Injuries definitely played a factor but it's not hard to see the farm improving now where it ran into the ground before Eppler.

 

[MMC]

It's almost as if a good GM should be able to keep a competitive team competitive instead of blaming someone else for his failures.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Lol DiPoto didn't take the Angels to anything. It's been brought up before and ignored by you, the biggest contributor to that playoff team that DiPoto brought in was the same guy you insist he had nothing to do with signing.

Eppler couldn't improve on that playoff team because Reagins and DiPoto both left the cupboard bare and most of the key contributors in 2014 were 30+. Injuries definitely played a factor but it's not hard to see the farm improving now where it ran into the ground before Eppler.

Wow.

So if DiPoto does well, it's not because of him. If Eppler has been doing bad, it's not because of him. Can you hear yourself when you type?

Now, as for the farm team, maybe you're choosing to be willfully ignorant b/c Arte cost the org two first round picks by signing Pujols (2012) and Hamilton (2013). I'll reiterate this again for you, DiPoto traded away SS Segura and two prospect pitchers for starting Pitcher Zack Greinke in July of 2012. In trading for Greinke, he can re-sign Greinke without losing a first round pick for a starting pitcher of his caliber. Instead, Arte went with the long ball in Hamilton, cost the Angels a first round pick and made the assets traded for Greinke made worthless. Greinke is still pitching today 2.65 ERA, 15 starts, 8 wins, and 2 losses.

We all know DiPoto loves trading and getting something in return. In DiPoto's four years of drafting for the Mariners, he hasn't lost a first round pick to signing a FA.

It's crazy for fans to think Eppler's done a great job so far considering DiPoto also had to work with similar fiscal constraints. Again, I bought into the Eppler train when he first came aboard. It wasn't until last year's reflection to see Eppler's teams haven't hit over .500 once and we still have no starting pitching worthwhile. Eppler hasn't drafted a pitcher in the first round during his first four years here. Go look at the standings for the past seven years. Well, unless you want to be willfully ignorant.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Wow.

So if DiPoto does well, it's not because of him. If Eppler has been doing bad, it's not because of him. Can you hear yourself when you type?

Now, as for the farm team, maybe you're choosing to be willfully ignorant b/c Arte cost the org two first round picks by signing Pujols (2012) and Hamilton (2013). I'll reiterate this again for you, DiPoto traded away SS Segura and two prospect pitchers for starting Pitcher Zack Greinke in July of 2012. In trading for Greinke, he can re-sign Greinke without losing a first round pick for a starting pitcher of his caliber. Instead, Arte went with the long ball in Hamilton, cost the Angels a first round pick and made the assets traded for Greinke made worthless. Greinke is still pitching today 2.65 ERA, 15 starts, 8 wins, and 2 losses.

We all know DiPoto loves trading and getting something in return. In DiPoto's four years of drafting for the Mariners, he hasn't lost a first round pick to signing a FA.

It's crazy for fans to think Eppler's done a great job so far considering DiPoto also had to work with similar fiscal constraints. Again, I bought into the Eppler train when he first came aboard. It wasn't until last year's reflection to see Eppler's teams haven't hit over .500 once and we still have no starting pitching worthwhile. Eppler hasn't drafted a pitcher in the first round during his first four years here. Go look at the standings for the past seven years. Well, unless you want to be willfully ignorant.

Of course I can, it's because I'm right and you know that, otherwise you would've actually added something. This isn't hard, if a team does well under a GM that he didn't really build, why would he get credit? People have questioned GMs who've had a far greater impact on their teams than DiPoto under the same reasoning. Just looking at the team's record while he was GM for a very short time is an incredibly simple thing to do. That's not how this works lol.

I don't totally hate because he had to clean up Reagins' mess but the farm also went nowhere under him and the team got continually worse. I've also been far more skeptical that Pujols and Hamilton were all Arte and he was totally against it, but hey, you can cling to that one if you want.

 

[Deuce22]

DiPoto quit because the manager had more power within the organization than he did. Why do you keep acting like the Angels should have kept him? The owner valued the manager more than his GM.

 

[Bender66]

I think it would be wise for the rest of the MLB to just IBB Trout, even when the bases are loaded.
The math is simple:
1 < 4

 

[duxfan1101]

Jo Adell invited to the Future's Game for the 2nd year in a row. His slash line at AA is a ridiculous .386/.456/.643 in 25 games. He should be in AAA relatively soon, and likely in the MLB early next season. If we get Gerrit Cole and maybe one more quality starter, I think we could make some noise next season.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Jo Adell invited to the Future's Game for the 2nd year in a row. His slash line at AA is a ridiculous .386/.456/.643 in 25 games. He should be in AAA relatively soon, and likely in the MLB early next season. If we get Gerrit Cole and maybe one more quality starter, I think we could make some noise next season.

and hopefully Bour & Cozart are gone by then. Cozart OPS is One third of what it was in 2017, he is the new Gary Matthews Jr, has one great year & then gets signed by the Angels.
Now that he has value, they might be able to get something in return for Calhoun & not be on the hook for his 14mill option next year. An OF of Upton/Trout/Goodwin will be good.

 

[MMC]

Jo Adell invited to the Future's Game for the 2nd year in a row. His slash line at AA is a ridiculous .386/.456/.643 in 25 games. He should be in AAA relatively soon, and likely in the MLB early next season. If we get Gerrit Cole and maybe one more quality starter, I think we could make some noise next season.

Seems like we've been saying something along the lines of this for years now

 

[AngelDuck]

Seems like we've been saying something along the lines of this for years now

I haven't been. This is the first time in YEARS where I've felt it's the right move to try to buy in the offseason - this team is now close to contention finally

 

[Anaheim4ever]

I haven't been. This is the first time in YEARS where I've felt it's the right move to try to buy in the offseason - this team is now close to contention finally

Yup. The prospects are finally starting to be close to ready.

 

[MMC]

 

[terranraida]

holy shit no way. dude is a year younger than I am..

 

[gilfaizon]

Heartbreaking. Way too young

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Wow that's just awful, so young.

 

[mightyquack]

What the f*** man....