OT: LA Angels of Anaheim Baseball Discussion (continued again)

[Anaheim4ever]

Should have traded Calhoun, his numbers are fading and its looking like they now gotta hope to trade him via a waiver claim or be ready to decline his option.

 

[MMC]

Should have traded Calhoun, his numbers are fading and its looking like they now gotta hope to trade him via a waiver claim or be ready to decline his option.

This isn't a thing anymore.

 

[mightyquack]

Given the injuries since the deadline, safe to say Eppler made the smart move not trying to make moves at the deadline. End of the day, they weren't expected to be competitive in 2019 - all depends on this coming off-season, if Eppler doesn't add some good pitching this off-season he'll certainly be on the hotseat.

 

[MMC]

Given the injuries since the deadline, safe to say Eppler made the smart move not trying to make moves at the deadline. End of the day, they weren't expected to be competitive in 2019 - all depends on this coming off-season, if Eppler doesn't add some good pitching this off-season he'll certainly be on the hotseat.

No reason for him to not pick up a warm body starter. Doesn’t have to be anyone good as we aren’t making the playoffs, but our rotation is absolutely decimated. He needed to bring someone in to keep guys like Suarez from getting shelled in the majors when they clearly aren’t ready

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Angels keep on losing. At this point just get John Lackey to come out of retirement & pitch because it won't make a difference, they will still lose.
I wonder how many people just watch the Angels when Trout & Ohtani bat & then change the channel to something else & then back again when those 2 bat.
This must be how Oilers fans feel when they watch McDavid & Draisaitl & when their off the ice they change the channel.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Given the injuries since the deadline, safe to say Eppler made the smart move not trying to make moves at the deadline. End of the day, they weren't expected to be competitive in 2019 - all depends on this coming off-season, if Eppler doesn't add some good pitching this off-season he'll certainly be on the hotseat.

Huh. So we weren't expected to be competitive in 2019? And Eppler needs to add some good pitching this off-season? Oddly enough, you can simply change the dates from 2019 to 2018, 2017, and 2016. The only young guns we had were rushed to the MLB this year in Canning and Suarez. We have no help beyond those two for a couple more seasons in our system.

Can the Angels afford an actual starter in the Majors next year? Pujols has two more seasons left under his contract, $29 mil in 2020 and $30 mil in 2021.

Anyhow, I do hope the Angels can finish above .500. That way I know we have enough offense to overcome a lack of pitching. Right now, the Angels have lost 7 straight games. ::: sighs ::: But hey, welcome to the "we need pitching" train. You're late to the party, but at least now you're on the ride now. = )

 

[Anaheim4ever]

I think there is a chance Pujols is bought out after this season like Hamilton, only 2 years remaining so its a easier pill to swallow at that point.

 

[duxfan1101]

I've been pretty damn patient with him thus far, but if we don't have a significantly improved pitching staff next season, then I will say he needs to go

 

[jiggsawpuzzle35]

I've been pretty damn patient with him thus far, but if we don't have a significantly improved pitching staff next season, then I will say he needs to go

My wish is for us to sign Gerrit Cole, another starting pitcher, and draft a pitcher in the 2020 Draft. It’s gonna be a deep draft and it’s a perfect time for us to draft a pitcher in the 1st round.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

My wish is for us to sign Gerrit Cole, another starting pitcher, and draft a pitcher in the 2020 Draft. It’s gonna be a deep draft and it’s a perfect time for us to draft a pitcher in the 1st round.

Do you know how many times me and other Angels fans have said to grab two quality starting pitchers and draft a pitcher in the first round under Eppler? He's got another year to break through the .500 threshold. This might be the fourth year the Angels finish below .500, but definitely fourth year not in playoff contention. This is the fourth year the Angels have allowed over 700 runs scored.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

I'm disappointed how Ausmus seems to put out the same lineups as Scioscia & benches Ohtani just like him.
Time to have Eric Chavez take over.

 

[mightyquack]

Well Ohtani is still recovering from his TJ, probably don't want to be running him into the ground during a lost season. His arm is going to be far, far more important to the team then his bat.

 

[jiggsawpuzzle35]

Do you know how many times me and other Angels fans have said to grab two quality starting pitchers and draft a pitcher in the first round under Eppler? He's got another year to break through the .500 threshold. This might be the fourth year the Angels finish below .500, but definitely fourth year not in playoff contention. This is the fourth year the Angels have allowed over 700 runs scored.

They said the 2019 draft wasn’t very deep. 2020 however is going to be the total opposite. I believe in some mock drafts they had like 11 pitchers going in the top 20. This offseason will be the year you will see the team go after big free agent pitchers.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

They said the 2019 draft wasn’t very deep. 2020 however is going to be the total opposite. I believe in some mock drafts they had like 11 pitchers going in the top 20. This offseason will be the year you will see the team go after big free agent pitchers.

Gerrit Cole is the top target imo, he's from Newport Beach so he'd be playing next to home with the Angels. The Angels have acquired his favorite catcher thru trade & don't they have his former pitching coach too ?

 

[Deuce22]

Well Ohtani is still recovering from his TJ, probably don't want to be running him into the ground during a lost season. His arm is going to be far, far more important to the team then his bat.

Not sure I agree with this. He is a question mark as a starting pitcher (because of health, not talent) and already established as one of the top young hitters in the game. IMO Angels need his bat in the lineup to protect Trout. Sitting him 3 days a week to get one 5-6 inning start as a pitcher in may not be in their best interests.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Not sure I agree with this. He is a question mark as a starting pitcher (because of health, not talent) and already established as one of the top young hitters in the game. IMO Angels need his bat in the lineup to protect Trout. Sitting him 3 days a week to get one 5-6 inning start as a pitcher in may not be in their best interests.

I predict he will eventually after future injuries end up being only a position player. Could see him becoming a corner OF or 3B with alot of glove reach to catch line drives & strong throwing arm to 1st or simply playing 1B. I feel he's one of those pitchers who will just keep getting hurt.

 

[Deuce22]

I predict he will eventually after future injuries end up being only a position player. Could see him becoming a corner OF or 3B with alot of glove reach to catch line drives & strong throwing arm to 1st or simply playing 1B. I feel he's one of those pitchers who will just keep getting hurt.

I think he would be one of the best RF's in baseball. Speed, arm, athletic ability. If I was an Angel fan, I would salivate over a Trout/Adell/Ohtani outfield.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

They said the 2019 draft wasn’t very deep. 2020 however is going to be the total opposite. I believe in some mock drafts they had like 11 pitchers going in the top 20. This offseason will be the year you will see the team go after big free agent pitchers.

If you're only looking for aces, then there's nothing. If you're looking for pitchers 2 - 3, then there are those pitchers to be had. We don't have enough talent in the system today. Who cares if Eppler lands a prospect pitcher in the first round this draft, the chances of that pitcher seeing any MLB time that same year isn't very good - almost improbable, especially if the pick is a high school pitcher!

Eppler's been trading pitching prospects for position hitters all of his four years as GM. All he has to show for in the draft for pitchers is Canning. Suarez was from the previous GM, DiPoto. Middle relief pitcher Middleton is also from DiPoto. Heaney, Sandoval, Tropeano, and Barria are also not not under Eppler. If you're trading pitching prospects for position players at the MLB level, then shouldn't the GM be replenishing the pitching prospect pool all along?

I guess if you want to omit the past four years of allowing over 700 runs and not finishing above .500, then hooray for the 2020 draft for A pitcher.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Not sure I agree with this. He is a question mark as a starting pitcher (because of health, not talent) and already established as one of the top young hitters in the game. IMO Angels need his bat in the lineup to protect Trout. Sitting him 3 days a week to get one 5-6 inning start as a pitcher in may not be in their best interests.

So how's that hitting helped out with wins this year? Maybe pitching can help if Ohtani can be healthy all season. If Ohtani gets in 26 games, then we increase our chances of winning those 26 games b/c of his pitching as we already have hitting. We can win 1 - 0 as opposed to losing 7-6 often.

Ohtani will still hit the ball as a pitcher, so it isn't as if we won't get the best of both worlds from Ohtani.

 

[Deuce22]

So how's that hitting helped out with wins this year? Maybe pitching can help if Ohtani can be healthy all season. If Ohtani gets in 26 games, then we increase our chances of winning those 26 games b/c of his pitching as we already have hitting. We can win 1 - 0 as opposed to losing 7-6 often.

Ohtani will still hit the ball as a pitcher, so it isn't as if we won't get the best of both worlds from Ohtani.

Ohtani as a starting pitcher would give you a better chance to win one game a week. But the 3 games he isn't hitting that week lessen the Angels chances to win those. One of the big reasons Angels are scoring runs is Ohtani's presence in the lineup. Not the same without him in there.

 

[mightyquack]

Not sure I agree with this. He is a question mark as a starting pitcher (because of health, not talent) and already established as one of the top young hitters in the game. IMO Angels need his bat in the lineup to protect Trout. Sitting him 3 days a week to get one 5-6 inning start as a pitcher in may not be in their best interests.

If Anaheim had 3 or 4 quality starters right now, I would agree but given Anaheim's lack of starting pitching depth in the organisation a top quality starting arm is more important. I'm not saying Ohtani's bat isn't valuable or he isn't an important part of the offence, but Ohtani is by far and away Anaheim's best starting pitcher (assuming he's healthy).

IMO Anaheim still has a good offence without Ohtani in the line up every single day while they have a disastrous rotation without Ohtani in it (assuming health)

 

[Deuce22]

If Anaheim had 3 or 4 quality starters right now, I would agree but given Anaheim's lack of starting pitching depth in the organisation a top quality starting arm is more important. I'm not saying Ohtani's bat isn't valuable or he isn't an important part of the offence, but Ohtani is by far and away Anaheim's best starting pitcher (assuming he's healthy).

IMO Anaheim still has a good offence without Ohtani in the line up every single day while they have a disastrous rotation without Ohtani in it (assuming health)

You make a good point. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

You make a good point. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Seriously, this is what I've been presenting all along. Eppler hasn't given the Angels a proper pitching staff and Ohtani is the ACE of the team. You're seeing things WITHOUT SCOPE. That's why I stated, "So how's that hitting helped out with wins this year? Maybe pitching can help if Ohtani can be healthy all season. If Ohtani gets in 26 games, then we increase our chances of winning those 26 games b/c of his pitching as we already have hitting. We can win 1 - 0 as opposed to losing 7-6 often. "

Angels (up to date, 137 games, with 25 more games left to play)
Runs Scored: 687 run (11th best)
Runs Allowed: 723 runs allowed (24th best, Dodgers are the best with only 535 runs allowed)

Last year, Ohtani participated in 10 games. The team allowed 722 run in 162 games, 18th best overall. This season's Angels have 25 games left have already surpassed runs allowed from last season. That's pathetic! Just how good is Ohtani?

2018 v 2019 Angels Pitching Staff

2017-18 Angels Pitching Staff
Minimum of 10 starts
Pitcher	GS	Innings Pitched	ERA	Runs Allowed
Ohtani	10	55.2	3.31	19
Barria	26	129.1	3.41	50
Richards	16	76.1	3.66	43
Skaggs	24	125.1	4.02	60
Heaney	30	180.0	4.15	91
Pena	16	92.2	4.18	45
Tropeano	14	76.0	4.74	41

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Notice Ohtani possessing the best ERA, but his elbow gave out and had to be shutdown as the injury required Tommy John surgery. That's Ohtani's rookie season in the MLB's! The runs allowed per innings pitched rate was 0.47.

2018-19 Angels Pitching Staff
Minimum of 9 starts (25 games left to play)
Pitcher	GS	Innings Pitched	ERA	Runs Allowed
Heaney	13	70.2	3.95	32
Skaggs	15	79.2	4.29	41
Canning	17	90.1	4.58	46
Barria	9	62.0	6.10	43
Cahill	11	91.1	6.41	68
Suarez	13	63.0	6.71	50
Harvey	12	59.2	7.09	48

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Canning is a 23-year old rookie. Last year, Ohtani also debuted at age 23. Maybe you're simply underselling Ohtani's importance as a pitcher. Also, the Angels have lost Skaggs. The runs allowed per innings pitched rate was 0.63.

The Angels can score runs without Ohtani, but the Angels have not much in their starting pitching staff. Canning was just shutdown with elbow inflammation, and should be shut down for the rest of the season. It appears that Ohtani and Heaney appear to be solid starters going into next season. Adding Cole isn't going to be enough. Just how much money do the Angels have to acquire a second top-end pitcher?

 

[Deuce22]

Seriously, this is what I've been presenting all along. Eppler hasn't given the Angels a proper pitching staff and Ohtani is the ACE of the team. You're seeing things WITHOUT SCOPE. That's why I stated, "So how's that hitting helped out with wins this year? Maybe pitching can help if Ohtani can be healthy all season. If Ohtani gets in 26 games, then we increase our chances of winning those 26 games b/c of his pitching as we already have hitting. We can win 1 - 0 as opposed to losing 7-6 often. "

Angels (up to date, 137 games, with 25 more games left to play)
Runs Scored: 687 run (11th best)
Runs Allowed: 723 runs allowed (24th best, Dodgers are the best with only 535 runs allowed)

Last year, Ohtani participated in 10 games. The team allowed 722 run in 162 games, 18th best overall. This season's Angels have 25 games left have already surpassed runs allowed from last season. That's pathetic! Just how good is Ohtani?

2018 v 2019 Angels Pitching Staff

2017-18 Angels Pitching Staff
Minimum of 10 starts
Pitcher	GS	Innings Pitched	ERA	Runs Allowed
Ohtani	10	55.2	3.31	19
Barria	26	129.1	3.41	50
Richards	16	76.1	3.66	43
Skaggs	24	125.1	4.02	60
Heaney	30	180.0	4.15	91
Pena	16	92.2	4.18	45
Tropeano	14	76.0	4.74	41

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Notice Ohtani possessing the best ERA, but his elbow gave out and had to be shutdown as the injury required Tommy John surgery. That's Ohtani's rookie season in the MLB's! The runs allowed per innings pitched rate was 0.47.

2018-19 Angels Pitching Staff
Minimum of 9 starts (25 games left to play)
Pitcher	GS	Innings Pitched	ERA	Runs Allowed
Heaney	13	70.2	3.95	32
Skaggs	15	79.2	4.29	41
Canning	17	90.1	4.58	46
Barria	9	62.0	6.10	43
Cahill	11	91.1	6.41	68
Suarez	13	63.0	6.71	50
Harvey	12	59.2	7.09	48

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Canning is a 23-year old rookie. Last year, Ohtani also debuted at age 23. Maybe you're simply underselling Ohtani's importance as a pitcher. Also, the Angels have lost Skaggs. The runs allowed per innings pitched rate was 0.63.

The Angels can score runs without Ohtani, but the Angels have not much in their starting pitching staff. Canning was just shutdown with elbow inflammation, and should be shut down for the rest of the season. It appears that Ohtani and Heaney appear to be solid starters going into next season. Adding Cole isn't going to be enough. Just how much money do the Angels have to acquire a second top-end pitcher?

It's not as simple as you are trying to make it. Taking an asset from your offense and transferring it to the pitching staff doesn't automatically improve the team. You say the Angels can still score runs without Ohtani, but they will score far less of them. The real question is: are the runs he prevents in one start per week worth more than those he would have created being in the lineup the three games that he will miss? Or to make it more specific: will 6 innings of Ohtani instead of Barria/Suarez once a week more valuable than 3 games a week of Ohtani(the hitter) compared to Thaiss/Bour/Walsh. I'm too lazy to do the math on that, but am not sure it's the slam dunk you think it is. An interesting compromise position would be to make Ohtani an everyday hitter, but have him available to close/relieve 2 or 3 games a week.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

It's not as simple as you are trying to make it. Taking an asset from your offense and transferring it to the pitching staff doesn't automatically improve the team. You say the Angels can still score runs without Ohtani, but they will score far less of them. The real question is: are the runs he prevents in one start per week worth more than those he would have created being in the lineup the three games that he will miss? Or to make it more specific: will 6 innings of Ohtani instead of Barria/Suarez once a week more valuable than 3 games a week of Ohtani(the hitter) compared to Thaiss/Bour/Walsh. I'm too lazy to do the math on that, but am not sure it's the slam dunk you think it is. An interesting compromise position would be to make Ohtani an everyday hitter, but have him available to close/relieve 2 or 3 games a week.

Yep & its also overstating how much games & innings Ohtani will do in a mostly healthy season for Ohtani standards.

I will be amazed if Ohtani ever throws 140 IP in a single season. When he pitches he pitches every 6th or 7th day depending on when there is a game.
105 to 115 IP per year seems a realistic outcome for him in a healthy season, almost every starting pitcher will have at least 1 start delayed or missed & for a guy with his injurie issues it'll be at least a few starts per year that he misses.