OT: LA Angels of Anaheim Baseball Discussion (continued again)

[MMC]

The DiPoto horse is out of the barn. He was sacrificed at the altar of Mike Scioscia. Eppler acquired Simmons, won the Ohtani sweepstakes, and is attempting to rebuild the farm system. He's been saddled with the Pujols contract and a manager stuck in the past. I don't have a dog in the fight, but don't get the Angel fan hate for Eppler.

I don't know very many Angel fans who do. I'm the weird one . For me, it's mostly due to the fact that the team has not progressed at all under him, and the fact that we are about to go this whole decade without winning any playoff games, despite having the best player in the league for 8/10 years. While our farm has improved, it still isn't anything special, and we don't really have any bluechippers outside of Adell now that Canning has graduated. I like the improvements he's made but it's not enough to make me confident that the team is suddenly going to go from being around .500 to becoming the 95+ win team it's going to take to beat the Astros and the other top dogs of the AL.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

The one year they made the playoffs this decade was the same year the Texas Rangers had half of their roster out for the season, no surprise they got bounced in the first round by the Royals.
This october will be 10 years since the Angels won a single playoff game or series.

 

[Deuce22]

DiPoto was saddled with Pujols' contract and a manager stuck in the past. I don't get your point. In fact, DiPoto had to work through the mismanagement of the Angels as the power construct went from manager to owner to GM.

Angels GM DiPoto
2012: 89-73 (0.549); RS = 767, RA = 699 (finished 3rd in AL West)
2013: 78-84 (0.481); RS = 733, RA = 737 (finished 3rd in AL West)
2014: 98-64 (0.605); RS = 773, RA = 630 (finished 1st in AL West, Playoffs)
2015: 85-77 (0.525); RS = 661, RA = 675 (finished 3rd in AL West)

Angels GM Eppler
2016: 74-88 (0.457); RS = 717, RA = 727 (finished 4th in AL West)
2017: 80-82 (0.494); RS = 710, RA = 709 (finished 2nd in AL West)
2018: 80-82 (0.494); RS = 722, RA = 722 (finished 4th in AL West)
2019: 35-36 (0.493); RS = 358, RA = 360 (currently in 4th in AL West). In 71 games, 360 runs have been allowed. There are 162 games in a full season. At this current rate, the Angels will be allowing 821 runs against themselves.

Eppler hails the accumulation of Simmons, Ohtani, and Upton. Rebuilding the farm team is easier to build if you are not negating yourself of first round selections, which owner Moreno took away from DiPoto in signing Free Agents of Pujols for 2012 and Hamilton for 2013. I have explained the nuance of such facts, but you seem to omit such nuances.

Anyhow, if you have no "dog in the fight", then why are you content with Eppler considering how he's yet to bring the team to same production as his predecessor in DiPoto, who also inherited a weak farm system.

The farm system review for 2011 by Baseball America



link: 2011 MLB Organizational Talent Rankings

The Angels were in the bottom of the league in 2009 and 2010. Thanks to Mike Trout and Segura, they inflated the Angels' farm ranking. Once Trout was no longer a prospect, the Angels tumbled down again. Please note what Baseball America reported that the Angels kept sacrificing premium draft picks as free-agent compensations. That's what Angels owner did again in 2012 and 2013. While DiPoto has been GM for the Mariners, he hasn't sacrificed any first rounders for a Free-Agent compensation.

Now, both Eppler and DiPoto have been GMs for the past four years at their new locations, Angels and Mariners respectively. I can't use Baseball America's 2019 organizational rankings b/c you have to pay for it. So I went with Bleacher Report's rankings after the 2019 MLB draft. The Angels are ranked 21st and the Mariners are ranked 5th. Link: Ranking All 30 MLB Farm Systems, Post-2019 MLB Draft

Under Eppler, the Angels' pitching staff hasn't prevented Runs Allowed to be below 700 runs once in three years, and looks like it will be a fourth consecutive year. Eppler inherited an above .500 team and only two-years removed from being a playoff team. Yet, you don't see how fans can't be upset with Eppler? I wasn't upset at Eppler until after the 2018 season and reflection. Because you don't care about nuances, then you have no position to query why people are upset at Eppler.

I'm not trying to argue DiPoto vs. Eppler. That's pointless. If you're mad about DiPoto being in Seattle, blame Arte for letting Scioscia win the power struggle. I'm trying to argue that Eppler has the organization moving in the right direction.

 

[MMC]

The one year they made the playoffs this decade was the same year the Texas Rangers had half of their roster out for the season, no surprise they got bounced in the first round by the Royals.
This october will be 10 years since the Angels won a single playoff game or series.

Yet despite that they finished with the best record in the entire league...

I'm not trying to argue DiPoto vs. Eppler. That's pointless. If you're mad about DiPoto being in Seattle, blame Arte for letting Scioscia win the power struggle. I'm trying to argue that Eppler has the organization moving in the right direction.

He very well might, but it’s no sure thing, especially considering only Adell and Canning were blue chip prospects. With Trout + our spending capabilities, it makes sense to be impatient and pissed off that we aren’t winning games

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Yet despite that they finished with the best record in the entire league...

He very well might, but it’s no sure thing, especially considering only Adell and Canning were blue chip prospects. With Trout + our spending capabilities, it makes sense to be impatient and pissed off that we aren’t winning games

Lol it never makes sense to be impatient in a situation like this. Rome wasn't built in a day and so forth.

 

[MMC]

Lol it never makes sense to be impatient in a situation like this. Rome wasn't built in a day and so forth.

If you’re content with a decade of mediocrity, to each their own.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

If you’re content with a decade of mediocrity, to each their own.

If he were the GM for that decade then you might have a point but he hasn't so you don't. Trying to jump ahead a few steps on a rebuild in baseball(or all sports but especially baseball) typically goes very poorly.

Part of it seems to be pretty unrealistic expectations for the sport. "Only" two blue chip prospects in his first two drafts? Really?

 

[duxfan1101]

If you want to call any season finishing above .500 "successful," then I can see why you think Dipoto was great. The Angels had one peak year during his tenure, which ended in failure, then they declined and stagnated. Only time will tell if Eppler builds a winner, but the team wasn't getting close to anything of significance at the end of Dipoto's reign. Sometimes it works to go all in, but building slowly off a strong farm system also works, it just may take longer. And now that we know Trout is committed long term, we have a few years to work with.

 

[MMC]

If he were the GM for that decade then you might have a point but he hasn't so you don't. Trying to jump ahead a few steps on a rebuild in baseball(or all sports but especially baseball) typically goes very poorly.

Part of it seems to be pretty unrealistic expectations for the sport. "Only" two blue chip prospects in his first two drafts? Really?

We wouldn't be in a spot where we have to rebuild if it wasn't for his refusal to bring in MLB caliber pitching. Dipoto recognized that was the problem and made attempts to fix it.

If you want to call any season finishing above .500 "successful," then I can see why you think Dipoto was great. The Angels had one peak year during his tenure, which ended in failure, then they declined and stagnated. Only time will tell if Eppler builds a winner, but the team wasn't getting close to anything of significance at the end of Dipoto's reign. Sometimes it works to go all in, but building slowly off a strong farm system also works, it just may take longer. And now that we know Trout is committed long term, we have a few years to work with.

I don't think Dipoto was great, but this is just way off base. The team finished with the best record in the league, followed by being a game away from the postseason in the last 2 years of the Dipoto era. Under Eppler, the team has performed the worst it has in a very long time.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

We wouldn't be in a spot where we have to rebuild if it wasn't for his refusal to bring in MLB caliber pitching. Dipoto recognized that was the problem and made attempts to fix it.

Lol yes they most certainly would, and I'm going to guess your solutions to bringing in MLB calibre pitching would probably hurt that rebuilding process. I follow the Jays as much as the Angels, this was part of their thought process as well in 2012 or whenever they tried to fast track a rebuild. It went about as terribly as it could.

 

[MMC]

Lol yes they most certainly would, and I'm going to guess your solutions to bringing in MLB calibre pitching would probably hurt that rebuilding process. I follow the Jays as much as the Angels, this was part of their thought process as well in 2012 or whenever they tried to fast track a rebuild. It went about as terribly as it could.

Yeah, with a top 5 payroll in the league and the best player in baseball, clearly the only way for us to be good is to rebuild in Trout's prime.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Yeah, with a top 5 payroll in the league and the best player in baseball, clearly the only way for us to be good is to rebuild in Trout's prime.

Kind of, yeah. It's a shitty reality and the timing sucks but there's only one good way to do it and thats by doing it right. Shortcuts probably would've just kept the mediocrity going for Trout's whole career, so I'd say that's worse.

My only worry was that they'd have to speed things up to get Trout to stay, but now that that's not an issue we're good. Trust the process and all that.

 

[MMC]

Kind of, yeah. It's a ****ty reality and the timing sucks but there's only one good way to do it and thats by doing it right. Shortcuts probably would've just kept the mediocrity going for Trout's whole career, so I'd say that's worse.

My only worry was that they'd have to speed things up to get Trout to stay, but now that that's not an issue we're good. Trust the process and all that.

. The rotation being one of the worst in the league has been the issue for Trout's entire tenure here, and yet we still had some seasons where we were an above .500 team. Dipoto brought in Skaggs, Heaney, and Santiago, all pitchers with good upside, to try to rectify that. Eppler has refused to make any upgrades, and as a result, we've been horrible. It's amazing how much people's love towards a shitty GM cloud their view of reality. If you want to "trust the process" that this dipshit will somehow turn this team into a contender, don't be surprised if we go another 5 seasons without making the playoffs.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

. The rotation being one of the worst in the league has been the issue for Trout's entire tenure here, and yet we still had some seasons where we were an above .500 team. Dipoto brought in Skaggs, Heaney, and Santiago, all pitchers with good upside, to try to rectify that. Eppler has refused to make any upgrades, and as a result, we've been horrible. It's amazing how much people's love towards a ****ty GM cloud their view of reality. If you want to "trust the process" that this dip**** will somehow turn this team into a contender, don't be surprised if we go another 5 seasons without making the playoffs.

Lol it's funny how you're so close to getting it but just quite can't. You're almost there, just keep going.

It's also very cute how you're accusing others of personal views clouding their judgement in the same post you call him a dipshit and a shitty GM.

 

[MMC]

Lol it's funny how you're so close to getting it but just quite can't. You're almost there, just keep going.

It's also very cute how you're accusing others of personal views clouding their judgement in the same post you call him a dip**** and a ****ty GM.

Sorry for not having any respect for someone who took our team that was on the verge of becoming a contender and turned them into being mediocre and needing a rebuild by refusing to fill the holes that prevented us from being a perennial playoff team?

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Sorry for not having any respect for someone who took our team that was on the verge of becoming a contender and turned them into being mediocre and needing a rebuild by refusing to fill the holes that prevented us from being a perennial playoff team?

Well the first part isn't right at all, and the second part is somehow less correct. Go take a look at that 2014 roster, no part of it outside Trout tells you they'd be a perennial contender, all the important parts were aging players that predated both GMs. That's not an emerging contender that's a team at its peak and headed off a cliff.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

After the season is over those 1 year deals are done, off the books, they can look to spend on better FA pitchers then if they want to.
I think they went into this season with the mindset that 'maybe' Harvey & Cahill will be decent & they make the playoffs or they suck & they are only on the hook for 1 year with their contracts.
The team is still years away from Adell/Canning reaching their ceiling in the majors, when they are closer to that i believe they will start spending big.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Well the first part isn't right at all, and the second part is somehow less correct. Go take a look at that 2014 roster, no part of it outside Trout tells you they'd be a perennial contender, all the important parts were aging players that predated both GMs. That's not an emerging contender that's a team at its peak and headed off a cliff.

and look at how many players the Texas Rangers lost to injurys in 2014, on paper before the season the Rangers were a 98 win team that after injuries turned into a 95 loss team.
The Angels were able to use Texas as a punching bag.

 

[MMC]

and look at how many players the Texas Rangers lost to injurys in 2014, on paper before the season the Rangers were a 98 win team that after injuries turned into a 95 loss team.
The Angels were able to use Texas as a punching bag.

This is absolutely hilarious reasoning as to why the team finished with the best record in baseball. There's no point in even trying to discuss this with you if you honestly believe this is why they were as good as they were.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

and look at how many players the Texas Rangers lost to injurys in 2014, on paper before the season the Rangers were a 98 win team that after injuries turned into a 95 loss team.
The Angels were able to use Texas as a punching bag.

Nah they were a good team that year but so many guys began their decline after that. There was also some bad luck with injuries but there was really nowhere to go but down for that team.

 

[MMC]

Well the first part isn't right at all, and the second part is somehow less correct. Go take a look at that 2014 roster, no part of it outside Trout tells you they'd be a perennial contender, all the important parts were aging players that predated both GMs. That's not an emerging contender that's a team at its peak and headed off a cliff.

Those 2 years were the years we had pitching that wasn't below league average. Our 3 best pitchers in 2014 were Garrett Richards (26), Matt Shoemaker (26/27), and Tyler Skaggs (22/23). It's almost as if it's been proven that if we have pitchers that aren't dogshit, we can be a playoff team.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Those 2 years were the years we had pitching that wasn't below league average. Our 3 best pitchers in 2014 were Garrett Richards (26), Matt Shoemaker (26/27), and Tyler Skaggs (22/23). It's almost as if it's been proven that if we have pitchers that aren't dog****, we can be a playoff team.

Yeah, and again, the right way to build a rotation isn't by signing old free agents or trading for old pitchers, it's by doing it yourself. I get it, you want instant gratification just like many other clueless fans, it's very common. And typically goes poorly.

 

[MMC]

Yeah, and again, the right way to build a rotation isn't by signing old free agents or trading for old pitchers, it's by doing it yourself. I get it, you want instant gratification just like many other clueless fans, it's very common. And typically goes poorly.

Did I say anything trading for or signing old pitchers? No, I said he hasn’t brought in any improvements. Skaggs, Heaney, and Santiago were not “old” when Dipoto acquired them.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Did I say anything trading for or signing old pitchers? No, I said he hasn’t brought in any improvements. Skaggs, Heaney, and Santiago were not “old” when Dipoto acquired them.

They weren't/aren't old and two of them are still on the team lol. Considering all your screeching about the pitching staff it's a bit odd you want more of that. That goes to show that even when you can make great moves to bring in arms with upside it doesn't always go so well.

But let's be real, older big names is exactly what you want. You're mad that Harvey and Cahill weren't Corbin and Keuchel.

 

[MMC]

They weren't/aren't old and two of them are still on the team lol. Considering all your screeching about the pitching staff it's a bit odd you want more of that. That goes to show that even when you can make great moves to bring in arms with upside it doesn't always go so well.

But let's be real, older big names is exactly what you want. You're mad that Harvey and Cahill weren't Corbin and Keuchel.

No, I want good pitchers, I don't care who or how old they are. You're the one that seems to think the only type of pitchers a GM can bring in to help a team are old, and that they will immediately fall off and be not worth their contracts/whatever we gave up to acquire them in a trade. Those pitchers that I named were good for us during the Dipoto era, and when they started to decline a bit after Eppler took over, he should've took the initiative, like Dipoto did, and went out and got arms to help the team. He chose not to, and this is why we are where we are. If you're too dense to be able to accept the fact that Eppler refusal to bring in good pitchers is why this team can't eclipse 500, and instead want to ignore reality and get excited about his "rebuild" and blame Dipoto for everything that's wrong with with the team, there's no use trying to get anything through to you.