Tribute Kyle Dubas discussion

[ACC1224]

Imagine still thinking the Willy contract is bad.

It wasn't the contract but the negotiating process.
I'm sure most agree he set a poor precedent with Nylander.

 

[Menzinger]

Nylander was scoring at a 70 point pace year 2 of the RFA deals.

You're not signing a 70ish point producing UFA to just 7 mil in comparison

 

[Dekes For Days]

He should have landed between Ehlers and Pasta.

He did. It was not an overpayment.

The first two years were not so great. He became a $7m player the last two years.

He was at a 71 point pace in year 2. He's outperformed his cap hit every year since year 2, and his contract overall.

I'm sure most agree he set a poor precedent with Nylander.

I'm sure most don't agree with that, since the only "precedent" he set with Nylander was sticking to his price, not wavering from a position that worked for the team, and forcing the player to cave.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Nylander was scoring at a 70 point pace year 2 of the RFA deals.

You're not signing a 70ish point producing UFA to just 7 mil in comparison

This guy got

An 8.5M x 8 year deal after his first 3 years

vs Nylander

 

[Jojalu]

He should have landed between Ehlers and Pasta. Whether it turned out good the last half, Kyle overpaid.


Never showed up year 1 and beginning of year 2. Picked it up the rest of year 2. 17 goals year #3. He became a $7m player the last two years.

Never called it a "bad" contract. I said Willie and Matty will bend Dubas over a barrel again and that was turned into "still thinking the Willy contract is bad".

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My only issue with this is that since that time who has he really overpaid?

For arguements sake let's say he did overpay the 3 of them. It was his first negotiating moves and he may have lost.

5 years have gone by. 6 even.

He has 100% grown as a GM in that time and has made some shrewd moves.

He did not cave to Sandin or Lily. He didn't overpay for Jack.

There is simply zero reason to say with certainty that he will overpay anyone. It might happen, but if that is the direction the Leafs want to go so be it.

 

[WTFMAN99]

My only issue with this is that since that time who has he really overpaid?

For arguements sake let's say he did overpay the 3 of them. It was his first negotiating moves and he may have lost.

5 years have gone by. 6 even.

He has 100% grown as a GM in that time and has made some shrewd moves.

He did not cave to Sandin or Lily. He didn't overpay for Jack.

There is simply zero reason to say with certainty that he will overpay anyone. It might happen, but if that is the direction the Leafs want to go so be it.

Since the Nylander contract?

Definitely Matthews, he is 100% worthy of the AAV, it should have been an 8 year term, not a 5.

Eichel and McDavid were his peers and got 10M x 8 and 12.5M x 8 respectively, Matthews at 11 or something cute like 11.34M for 8 years made sense, not the 5 years though.

Marner basically is the 2nd highest paid winger in the league and he got the deal as an RFA and they didn't get max term with him either. Panarin I believe is the only one to get more and he was UFA.

 

[Jojalu]

Since the Nylander contract?

Definitely Matthews, he is 100% worthy of the AAV, it should have been an 8 year term, not a 5.

Eichel and McDavid were his peers and got 10M x 8 and 12.5M x 8 respectively, Matthews at 11 or something cute like 11.34M for 8 years made sense, not the 5 years though.

Marner basically is the 2nd highest paid winger in the league and he got the deal as an RFA and they didn't get max term with him either. Panarin I believe is the only one to get more and he was UFA.

Since the 3 of them. Auston I am ok with the price, but I wish the term had been 8.

I hope Kyle has learned, and I hope Matthews and Marner have picked up how difficult it is to build a team around so many high paid guys.

I give all the credit in the world to Dubas who somehow kept the team relevant after signing the contracts and having the cap froze soon after.

Take away Covid and who knows what this already loader roster would look like.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Since the 3 of them. Auston I am ok with the price, but I wish the term had been 8.

I hope Kyle has learned, and I hope Matthews and Marner have picked up how difficult it is to build a team around so many high paid guys.

I give all the credit in the world to Dubas who somehow kept the team relevant after signing the contracts and having the cap froze soon after.

Take away Covid and who knows what this already loader roster would look like.

Yes but every team had to navigate covid. Dubas didn't pivot off his team building philosophy to the tune of 0 series wins. I hope we finally see a long playoff run this year.

I think his younger self is his current self's worst enemy, if he had cost certainty on Matthews and Marner for another 3 years, it would go a long way.

 

[sxvnert]

Imagine still thinking the Willy contract is bad.

The hold out really pissed people off while showing the rest of the players the lack of backbone this management team has.

 

[Jojalu]

Yes but every team had to navigate covid. Dubas didn't pivot off his team building philosophy to the tune of 0 series wins. I hope we finally see a long playoff run this year.

I think his younger self is his current self's worst enemy, if he had cost certainty on Matthews and Marner for another 3 years, it would go a long way.

That is true. It's really why so many teams are in such a horrible cap situation.

I don't fault him or any GM for the capcrunch teams have been forced to endure. It just was a tough time to GM.

All in all, if the Leafs can make something of this year then combined with what he has done in the regular season, I will be ok if they resign him.

If they lose, it would probably just be better for everyone involved if they went seperate ways.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This guy got

An 8.5M x 8 year deal after his first 3 years

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Except that's not true. Those weren't even his first 3 years. He signed the equivalent of a 9m x 8 year deal after:

Funny enough, Nylander actually had a higher P/GP on his ELC.

 

[The Masters]

kypreos on fan drive SPECULATING he got offered an extension and baulked at the $ cuz it was low

also heard through a friend Shanny and Dubas have had differences this season

 

[notbias]

It wasn't the contract but the negotiating process.
I'm sure most agree he set a poor precedent with Nylander.

By not caving?

 

[Antropovsky]

The hold out really pissed people off while showing the rest of the players the lack of backbone this management team has.

It wasn't the contract but the negotiating process.
I'm sure most agree he set a poor precedent with Nylander.

Marners negotiations were x2 worse than Nylanders. Swiss league confirming Marner reached out to practice with them, rumors of multiple contract offers by other team's. The lebron like "letter to the fans", as if he was some sort of generational superstar and then going to the media and saying he "called up Dubas to make a deal", similar to Nylanders story of how it went. Absolute circus.

 

[thewave]

Marners negotiations were x2 worse than Nylanders. Swiss league confirming Marner reached out to practice with them, rumors of multiple contract offers by other team's. The lebron like "letter to the fans", as if he was some sort of generational superstar and then going to the media and saying he "called up Dubas to make a deal", similar to Nylanders story of how it went. Absolute circus.

The organization is a circus. I just hope all the noise goes away right now, we win tonight. Beat FL or Bos and go get ourselves a cup this year. It's the best chance we have for a while. After we win, they can do whatever they want, keep who they want. I and most people will be happy.

 

[hullsy47]

It's because this core just isn't as good a Tampa s
Likely because Hedman is in their core
And without a stud goalie Tampa doesn't win 1 cup
Dubas will learn goalies and a world class defeneman in your core help win cups

 

[Antropovsky]

The organization is a circus. I just hope all the noise goes away right now, we win tonight. Beat FL or Bos and go get ourselves a cup this year. It's the best chance we have for a while. After we win, they can do whatever they want, keep who they want. I and most people will be happy.

The lights are certainly higher than any other place, which makes me appreciate Lou's cone of silence more. Could've let the team have their facial hair, but otherwise his rules seem to have their benefits.

 

[mikeyz]

I think we have a better chance of winning the cup and you still not being able to see Olivia Culpo anywhere near you.

Lets not get crazy. 1 step at a time. Lol.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

It's because this core just isn't as good a Tampa s
Likely because Hedman is in their core
And without a stud goalie Tampa doesn't win 1 cup
Dubas will learn goalies and a world class defeneman in your core help win cups

Those don't exactly grow on trees and aren't usually available.

You don't necessarily need an elite goalie to win the cup either. Sometimes just a goalie that gets hot at the right time.

Binnington
Niemi
Ward
Murray
Osgood

You just have to play well enough in close games and not give up a bad goal here and there. Something the likes of Campbell and Andersen kept managing to do. They would play well for most of the series and then give up a weak, back breaker.

 

[LeafSteel]

kypreos on fan drive SPECULATING he got offered an extension and baulked at the $ cuz it was low

also heard through a friend Shanny and Dubas have had differences this season

Kypper is a meathead.

Having said that, the moves that Dubas made at the TDL this season is unlike anything he's done in his time here. He brought in more experience and grit in the span of a couple of weeks than he has his entire tenure, which previously was picking up small skill instead.

Makes me wonder if we are seeing Dubas growing and evolving as a GM, or was it Shanahan asserting himself and what he and Spezza deemed weaknesses in our team as assembled at that time?

Interesting...

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Don't plan the extension yet. Yes we up 3-2 but it would be 4-0 sweep to the hands of boston or florida. This current game we playing won't work in round 2.

 

[Superstar]

If Dubas is still around, I hope he has learned from the pandemic that he can't borrow money from the future expecting the salary cap to go up to help him deal with his overpayments...let's hope Matthews and Marner get renewed for fair deals, and not take the organization to the cleaners.

 

[Menzinger]

Front office is pleased

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

He can now re-sign without having the baggage of zero playoff series wins.

 

[SImpelton]

Dubas is probably not going anywhere at this point.