Tribute Kyle Dubas discussion

[SprDaVE]

Continue your discussions about Kyle Dubas here.

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[ACC1224]

Continue your discussions about Kyle Dubas here.

Can you add a simple poll as an evaluation?

a) Happy so far
b) Concerned.

 

[SprDaVE]

Can you add a simple poll as an evaluation?

a) Happy so far
b) Concerned.

Done

 

[deletethis]

No he couldn't and no he won't. Boy I wonder what he was thinking...

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Adequate. Nowhere near as great as he is made out to be. But he's been fine.

 

[ACC1224]

Done

Thanks.

Is the feature where you can see who voted what no longer available?

 

[zeke]

So, so good.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Adequate. Nowhere near as great as he is made out to be. But he's been fine.

I don't think too many people are making him out to be great (Zeke perhaps?) as almost everyone agrees that he overpaid our stars and our backup situation is another thing that many want to hang him for. Other than that though, I like pretty much everything he's done so for an overall grade I suppose you could say that ... he's been OK, just OK.

I sure hope he's a fast learner as I had high hopes for him and this franchises has been cursed with doofuses running things going back for longer than I care to remember.

 

[SprDaVE]

Thanks.

Is the feature where you can see who voted what no longer available?

I disabled it for this poll.

 

[Gary Nylund]

So, so good.

So you're completely fine with Marner's contract?

 

[ACC1224]

I disabled it for this poll.

Ok.
Perhaps the anonymity will allow people to vote honestly.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Good moves
-Muzzin
-AJ & KK contracts
-Zaitsev for Ceci
-John Tavares

Lukewarm
-Marleau trade
-Nylander's contract is good, but the process was a mess
-Lindholm for Petan
-Kadri for Barrie

Could've been better
-McBackup
-Matthews and Marner should've signed 8 year deals

Edit - Missed Tavares lol

 

[Advanced stats]

Very happy with Dubas to this point. Slight over pay on marner and the back up goalie situation are his only significant miss-steps.
He's learning very fast.

 

[zeke]

So you're completely fine with Marner's contract?

Nah, a mil or two more than I wanted. But that's the part of the roster to overpay, if you do.

Tbh my least favorite contract on the team is the Tavares one. But even then, i don't hate it.

 

[ToneDog]

Been hearing NHL is a results league lately. By that Dubas has failed unless his cast steps up for him the rest of the season and makes the playoffs.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nah, a mil or two more than I wanted. But that's the part of the roster to overpay, if you do.

Tbh my least favorite contract on the team is the Tavares one. But even then, i don't hate it.

I'm not sure it matters much myself, wasted cap space is wasted cap space no matter who you waste it on.

 

[Duffman955]

Steadily declining performance since his tenure started

I'm thrilled

 

[zeke]

I'm not sure it matters much myself, wasted cap space is wasted cap space no matter who you waste it on.

not really.

by most any opportunity-cost value model, elite players are actually underpaid relative to their actual value, while the lesser players are overpaid.

the worst thing is having valueless dead money clogging the bottom of the roster. guys you literally don't want on your team. contracts you have to pay to give away. Marner will never, ever be that.

 

[Gary Nylund]

not really.

by most any opportunity-cost value model, elite players are actually underpaid relative to their actual value, while the lesser players are overpaid.

the worst thing is having valueless dead money clogging the bottom of the roster. guys you literally don't want on your team. contracts you have to pay to give away. Marner will never, ever be that.

Nice theory I guess but that doesn't help us one bit as Marner sure as hell isn't underpaid relative to his actual value.

If you have say 4 million in over-payments on your roster, I don't see how it matters one bit whether you're overpaying stars or bums as the end result is the same. The only thing that matters is the term - how long are we stuck with these over-payments and by that measure our situation isn't great.

 

[zeke]

Nice theory I guess but that doesn't help us one bit as Marner sure as hell isn't underpaid relative to his actual value.

actually, he probably is. it's just that all the stars are underpaid relative to their actual value.

If you have say 4 million in over-payments on your roster, I don't see how it matters one bit whether you're overpaying stars or bums as the end result is the same.

well no, it's not the same, as in one situation you have a bunch of bums on the roster.

 

[LeafGrief]

I'm very happy with Johnsson and Kappy's contracts. I think Dubas has also done very well at the draft table so far with Sandin and Robertson as impressive picks. He gets credit for landing Tavares and under market rate as well. Pretty happy with the Muzzin trade. I like that we signed 800 depth forwards as well.

I'm okay with the Kadri trade so far but not enamoured. Nylander has a good contract that will serve us well in the long run, but the process was brutal and that set the table for the rest of the players. The Marleau and Zaitsev trades were meh, not bad not great. Firing Babcock goes in the adequate tier for now, it might have been too late or it might have been just in time. Judgement mostly withheld until the season is over, but it will have a big impact on my overall feelings.

The backup situation is a rather embarrassing clusterf***. The Matthews and Marner deals are bad and worse, with Matthews having too little term and Marner's contracting being an overpayment and under-termed.

Overall, I voted adequate. If the Leafs were doing well this year I probably would have voted happy. I'd say the good outweighs the bad thusfar, but actual results mean a whole lot more than whether I like some moves or not. We need to make the playoffs and start having some real success before Dubas is praise-worthy IMO. Individual moves are worthy of evaluation, but I'm still undecided on him overall.

 

[GoonieFace]

not really.

by most any opportunity-cost value model, elite players are actually underpaid relative to their actual value, while the lesser players are overpaid.

the worst thing is having valueless dead money clogging the bottom of the roster. guys you literally don't want on your team. contracts you have to pay to give away. Marner will never, ever be that.

Unless your "stars" are not capable of winning when it matters most. Than overpaying them, even slightly, hinders the rest of the roster.

 

[Gary Nylund]

actually, he probably is. it's just that all the stars are underpaid relative to their actual value.

well no, it's not the same, as in one situation you have a bunch of bums on the roster.

Is that better than having empty spots on the roster?

Is that better than not having the cap space to pay a NHL calibre backup?

I'm very happy with Johnsson and Kappy's contracts. I think Dubas has also done very well at the draft table so far with Sandin and Robertson as impressive picks. He gets credit for landing Tavares and under market rate as well. Pretty happy with the Muzzin trade. I like that we signed 800 depth forwards as well.

I'm okay with the Kadri trade so far but not enamoured. Nylander has a good contract that will serve us well in the long run, but the process was brutal and that set the table for the rest of the players. The Marleau and Zaitsev trades were meh, not bad not great. Firing Babcock goes in the adequate tier for now, it might have been too late or it might have been just in time. Judgement mostly withheld until the season is over, but it will have a big impact on my overall feelings.

The backup situation is a rather embarrassing cluster****. The Matthews and Marner deals are bad and worse, with Matthews having too little term and Marner's contracting being an overpayment and under-termed.

Overall, I voted adequate. If the Leafs were doing well this year I probably would have voted happy. I'd say the good outweighs the bad thusfar, but actual results mean a whole lot more than whether I like some moves or not. We need to make the playoffs and start having some real success before Dubas is praise-worthy IMO. Individual moves are worthy of evaluation, but I'm still undecided on him overall.

Not sure if you missed anything or not here, seems bang on to me. I'm also undecided, but cautiously optimistic and hopeful. Nice summary!

 

[SprDaVE]

I'm very happy with Johnsson and Kappy's contracts. I think Dubas has also done very well at the draft table so far with Sandin and Robertson as impressive picks. He gets credit for landing Tavares and under market rate as well. Pretty happy with the Muzzin trade. I like that we signed 800 depth forwards as well.

I'm okay with the Kadri trade so far but not enamoured. Nylander has a good contract that will serve us well in the long run, but the process was brutal and that set the table for the rest of the players. The Marleau and Zaitsev trades were meh, not bad not great. Firing Babcock goes in the adequate tier for now, it might have been too late or it might have been just in time. Judgement mostly withheld until the season is over, but it will have a big impact on my overall feelings.

The backup situation is a rather embarrassing cluster****. The Matthews and Marner deals are bad and worse, with Matthews having too little term and Marner's contracting being an overpayment and under-termed.

Overall, I voted adequate. If the Leafs were doing well this year I probably would have voted happy. I'd say the good outweighs the bad thusfar, but actual results mean a whole lot more than whether I like some moves or not. We need to make the playoffs and start having some real success before Dubas is praise-worthy IMO. Individual moves are worthy of evaluation, but I'm still undecided on him overall.

Fair and level headed.

 

[hotpaws]

happy - if the team performed better than the one he took over

adequate - if the team performed similar to the one he took over

concerned - if the team has performed worse than the one he took over

the team has performed worse since he took over so i voted concerned which is a very nice way to word my view of Dubas