Player Discussion: Kyle Connor

[Duke749]

There are lots of good offensive players in the league that aren't great defensively, i'd way rather pay money to watch a guy like Connor than say Copp . You need both types of players though and we have a good mix .

The guy has just been feeding off his line mates and the PP for the majority of the year. Don’t get me wrong, you need that kind of finishing ability and offensive fire power. But he is doing jack all defensively and that is hurting him and his team.

 

[Adam da bomb]

The team should just trade him then because he is still considered great by most ppl out of the organization. Let’s just move Copp and all his scoring prowess back into the top 6 or ask no-shoot wheeler and stastny to make up the goals. I also forgot all pld’s goals.
Maybe we can trade him for a top 4 like demelo or trade him for laine who has much better scoring and much better d he just wants to leave right away and also thinks he’s worth 9.5 mil.

 

[Duke749]

The team should just trade him then because he is still considered great by most ppl out of the organization. Let’s just move Copp and all his scoring prowess back into the top 6 or ask no-shoot wheeler and stastny to make up the goals. I also forgot all pld’s goals.
Maybe we can trade him for a top 4 like demelo or trade him for laine who has much better scoring and much better d he just wants to leave right away and also thinks he’s worth 9.5 mil.

Boy did you ever miss the point....

 

[jetsforever]

I would have preferred trading KC than Laine but there's no question he's elite offensively
Defence is lacking so hopefully that improves, although Maurice's blind spot for him means we'll probably need to wait for a new coach

 

[Jet]

wheeler has been crap but playing a majoirty of this season with KC really does shit on his numbers further.



pld is not some stalwart defensively. idk why people think this?

fact is he is garbage defensively and has been for years, and this deserves to get commented on. just like it was for other plays (laine, scheifele, wheeler etc.).

For years!! LOL.

He's 22 and has played only 3 full seasons. Might want to slow the role on he is garbage and has been for years - kind of disingenuous. He's already miles ahead of guys like Laine and Connor.

 

[DRW204]

For years!! LOL.

He's 22 and has played only 3 full seasons. Might want to slow the role on he is garbage and has been for years - kind of disingenuous. He's already miles ahead of guys like Laine and Connor.

im talking about Connor

 

[Jet]

Yeowza. Sizzling hot take.

I mean everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if it's completely wrong.

Absolutely insane take. Apparently Laine is already in the doghouse in Columbus. We weren't keeping him. Hell, Columbus isn't keeping him. PL will need to find a team that puts him on a pedestal, feeds him 25 minutes a night PP1 PP2 with elite center and never tries to make him work the defensive side of the puck.

Connor gives effot every night. He has way better hands than Laine, is more agile, and is currently producing more. He's the better player and the gap is widening. It's a shame, really, Laine could have been a megastar in the same convo as McDavid and Matthews but he's miles away at this point and not heading in the right direction.

 

[Jet]

im talking about Connor

Haha! Your post is extremely confusing then

EDIT: It's actually my bad, I should have read through better. This is after all a thread on Connor. My apologies

 

[Jet]

The issue with Connor defensively is particularly related to his ineffectiveness in zone exits. He is a turnover machine in his own end, and then doesn't have the DNA to cover opponents. I think a lot of it is his attitude, rather than effort. He manages the puck in his own zone the same way he does in the offensive zone, looking for high risk/reward plays with the puck. The problem is that the risk/reward balance is much difference in the defensive zone.

Yup, its a problem that a few of our high skilled forwards have - you need to play situationally. You can't treat the puck the same way in your own zone that you do in the offensive zone. If Connor figures that out he will markedly improve.

 

[Weezeric]

I’m very skeptical about these models that try to isolate one players impact. Connor is undeniably weak defensively, but who on this team is strong defensively?

Connor is 42 CF% with Beaulieu and 50 CF% without him. He’s weak xG% but so is the whole team. If you replace Beaulieu and Poolman with two defensively sound defencemen I’m sure you’d see everyone’s defence suddenly “improve”.

 

[HHel]

Start of conversation was Connor's weak defensive game and people has some kind of urgency to bring Laine along to every conversation. You must to wake up. This is not about Laine. This is all KC. If people even watched last game you could see he was closely watching every 5 vs 5 goals against, like was PLD. He has been horrendous 5 vs 5 this season and it's not Laine's fault. He should get his s**t together and start playing like he is TOP 4 player in this team. And no, 25 points in 26 games is not good if opponent scores three times more against you, when you are on ice.

 

[JetsUK]

Absolutely insane take. Apparently Laine is already in the doghouse in Columbus. We weren't keeping him. Hell, Columbus isn't keeping him. PL will need to find a team that puts him on a pedestal, feeds him 25 minutes a night PP1 PP2 with elite center and never tries to make him work the defensive side of the puck.

Connor gives effot every night. He has way better hands than Laine, is more agile, and is currently producing more. He's the better player and the gap is widening. It's a shame, really, Laine could have been a megastar in the same convo as McDavid and Matthews but he's miles away at this point and not heading in the right direction.

I'm not sure about the bolded at this point -- few of our forwards do as many flybys as KC, and for a guy with his skillset, from speed to hands to supposed hockey sense, and who had a rep in college as being a guy whose brain and skills made him a formidable 2-way prospect, I just don't see much development and perhaps even some regression over the past few seasons.

If he's giving maximum effort, why does his defensive game look and measure as poorly as it does? And if it's something that can be adjusted, or coached back into him, why isn't that happening?

FYI, I don't think KC is a lousy player or lost cause, I'm genuinely interested in where people think he can up his 2-way game in order to become the player he can be (and that PM seems to think he is).

 

[Teemusalami204]

I think you are overstating some things. Both Scheifele and PLD have defensive gaps in their games but both are better than Connor. Even Wheeler is better than Connor. Ehlers also has gaps but he is quite good defensively. The same goes for Stastny. Appleton is quite good defensively.

Out of our entire top 12 forwards (and maybe a couple more) Connor is the weakest defensively. So yes he can be singled out. Coach him to be better and when he improves to the point he is no longer the worst, concentrate on the new worst.

I personally think sheif is worse than Connor. But both are brutal.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I personally think sheif is worse than Connor. But both are brutal.

Scheif plays the more defensively demanding position and plays more against the oppositions best. He is also frequently saddled with KC. A few years ago Scheif seemed poised to become a very good 2 way C. Since then he seems to have let D slide for O. That leads disappointed people to be hyper-critical of his D flaws. Not saying they don't exist, but I think they are being exaggerated. He does still try to play somewhat defensively. I think he has been better this year too. Bottom line, I don't think Scheif is nearly as bad as KC. Scheif is weak. Connor is brutal.

 

[LowLefty]

The issue with Connor defensively is particularly related to his ineffectiveness in zone exits. He is a turnover machine in his own end, and then doesn't have the DNA to cover opponents. I think a lot of it is his attitude, rather than effort. He manages the puck in his own zone the same way he does in the offensive zone, looking for high risk/reward plays with the puck. The problem is that the risk/reward balance is much difference in the defensive zone.

KC is not good in situations in his own end if the game plan is to push play up the walls one foot at a time.
He isn't effective from a stand still - he needs to be moving. But we don't exit that way - we throw it up the walls, into traffic and hope the winger can make a play from a standstill while fighting of an apposing winger and Dman who are well aware of our exit strategy - they just load up and over whelm the winger.

This dialogue will continue (or get worse) if the game plan is to expect guys like KC to make things happen in situations like this.
Thankfully he's an entertaining player that can score some magical goals - until the game plan changes in how we exit our end, I'll continue to watch the part of his game where he can be fun to watch.
Not a lot of mention of that in this thread where our D zone play is part of the problem (a big part) and might be part of the issue with forwards like Connor.

I do want to see him improve defensively but more importantly, I want to see change in personnel and strategy in our end that will allow him to have a fighting chance of succeeding.

 

[Teemusalami204]

Scheif plays the more defensively demanding position and plays more against the oppositions best. He is also frequently saddled with KC. A few years ago Scheif seemed poised to become a very good 2 way C. Since then he seems to have let D slide for O. That leads disappointed people to be hyper-critical of his D flaws. Not saying they don't exist, but I think they are being exaggerated. He does still try to play somewhat defensively. I think he has been better this year too. Bottom line, I don't think Scheif is nearly as bad as KC. Scheif is weak. Connor is brutal.

I actually agree. Good post

 

[LowLefty]

The guy has just been feeding off his line mates and the PP for the majority of the year. Don’t get me wrong, you need that kind of finishing ability and offensive fire power. But he is doing jack all defensively and that is hurting him and his team.

Can't agree with that statement -
He works very well with his linemates - he's setting up some nice goals and his mates are setting him up for the same.
If you want to call out his game in his own end, feel free to pile on - but I don't get making statements like this.
He's a team player and a good linemate.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm not sure about the bolded at this point -- few of our forwards do as many flybys as KC, and for a guy with his skillset, from speed to hands to supposed hockey sense, and who had a rep in college as being a guy whose brain and skills made him a formidable 2-way prospect, I just don't see much development and perhaps even some regression over the past few seasons.

If he's giving maximum effort, why does his defensive game look and measure as poorly as it does? And if it's something that can be adjusted, or coached back into him, why isn't that happening?

FYI, I don't think KC is a lousy player or lost cause, I'm genuinely interested in where people think he can up his 2-way game in order to become the player he can be (and that PM seems to think he is).

All he has to do to make a big first step in playing better D is to skate hard on the backcheck. Huge improvement right there with his speed.

 

[LowLefty]

Scheif plays the more defensively demanding position and plays more against the oppositions best. He is also frequently saddled with KC. A few years ago Scheif seemed poised to become a very good 2 way C. Since then he seems to have let D slide for O. That leads disappointed people to be hyper-critical of his D flaws. Not saying they don't exist, but I think they are being exaggerated. He does still try to play somewhat defensively. I think he has been better this year too. Bottom line, I don't think Scheif is nearly as bad as KC. Scheif is weak. Connor is brutal.

I agree - The center is usually the most defensively demanding role in your own end -
But not necessarily when you consider how we manage things in our end.
The wingers are under more pressure because everything is coming around to them via wrap around the walls.
The centers don't appear to be a target for our D on exit - that's a problem and it takes a lot of the heat of the C when they are not involved in the exit nearly as much as they should be.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I agree - The center is usually the most defensively demanding role in your own end -
But not necessarily when you consider how we manage things in our end.
The wingers are under more pressure because everything is coming around to them via wrap around the walls.
The centers don't appear to be a target for our D on exit - that's a problem and it takes a lot of the heat of the C when they are not involved in the exit nearly as much as they should be.

A lot of emphasis on the exits/breakouts here. Which is fine. But what about backchecking/recovering the puck in the first place? You don't need to worry about exits if you don't have the puck.

 

[LowLefty]

A lot of emphasis on the exits/breakouts here. Which is fine. But what about backchecking/recovering the puck in the first place? You don't need to worry about exits if you don't have the puck.

KC is usually the first and many times, only guy in on the forecheck - which usually means he is last out on the back check.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

KC is usually the first and many times, only guy in on the forecheck - which usually means he is last out on the back check.

Fair enough. But he still needs to at least make an effort. Waiving his stick at a player going by him to score a goal does not count as an effort.

 

[LowLefty]

Fair enough. But he still needs to at least make an effort. Waiving his stick at a player going by him to score a goal does not count as an effort.

I saw that play too - and didn't like it (assuming I know what you are referring to).
He can do more - there is not doubt and I won't argue it - but there are other underlying issues that impact a wingers ability to defend in their end. That's where my comments were directed.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I saw that play too - and didn't like it (assuming I know what you are referring to).
He can do more - there is not doubt and I won't argue it - but there are other underlying issues that impact a wingers ability to defend in their end. That's where my comments were directed.

Yeah, you know the one.

I can't argue with your points about systems. But I think there is enough similarity between KC and Ehlers skill sets that there should be more similarity between their zone exits. KC has speed and puck carrying ability. He could make better use of it.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Imo Connor is Ehlers 3 seasons ago or so defensively. What KC needs to do is talk to Nikolaj and pretty much do exactly what Nik did. Watch the video of himself but maybe concentrate exclusively on improving the D play.

However Nik seems to be more built than KC. Off the ice Nik looks thicker than KC. KC is a skeleton.. lol. Dude needs to bulk up if he can a bit. Maybe put some more gym time in the off season on the list of things to do. I don't think he needs to be huge but.. atleast look like you are a pro athlete.