News Article: Kuzma reports on potential Miller trade

[RobertKron]

I am just reporting what Horvat and Pettersson said about being on a rebuilding team...not really interested in your ranting laundry list of management grievances...there's another thread for that.

here you go:
Canucks Management Thread: Year 8, still waiting and seeing...Patience

Maybe they'll turn it around in a hurry

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

I would try and trade him at the deadline if anything unless something right now is too good to pass on but I doubt it, having a bidding war for him at the deadline would make the most sense imo.

 

[xtra]

A rebuild on a rebuild, your looking at another 3-4 years..Does the ownership, and the fanbase have an appetite for that?

I thought you said rebuilds take 7-9 years

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I thought you said rebuilds take 7-9 years

Wasn't me.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

I am just reporting what Horvat and Pettersson said about being on a rebuilding team...not really interested in your ranting laundry list of management grievances...there's another thread for that.

here you go:
Canucks Management Thread: Year 8, still waiting and seeing...Patience

So nothing to say. Typical.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

Wasn't me.

Must of been Benning

 

[tantalum]

Maybe they'll turn it around in a hurry

I actually think they can with a good GM. The roster has a bad mix of players and it’s woefully out of balance, but they have some assets that can be used to bring a good chunk of that balance. It’s not an easy task, however, and you have to do it without moving picks. Indeed you need to actually get more picks in addition to the roster balancing.

Certainly you need something other than the FA/Benning/Weisbrod “brain trust” to pull it off.

 

[mathonwy]

I actually think they can with a good GM. The roster has a bad mix of players and it’s woefully out of balance, but they have some assets that can be used to bring a good chunk of that balance. It’s not an easy task, however, and you have to do it without moving picks. Indeed you need to actually get more picks in addition to the roster balancing.

Certainly you need something other than the FA/Benning/Weisbrod “brain trust” to pull it off.

I think so too.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

I'd target Hronek and Rasmussen out of Detroit. Both excellent 5v5 players and both play the penalty kill. Nico Sturm out of Minny would be another fantastic target for a 4c and PK role.

 

[RandV]

The absolute LAST player they should be trading: a guy who's actually giving a shit on the team, one of the only ones left.

This is a bit shortsighted. If there's only a couple of guys "giving a shit" then you need a top down management/coaching to bring the rest of the team up to speed. That attitude should be the norm, and it's how good organizations operate. Fix that and Miller loses his uniqueness here.

Now it would be great to keep Miller regardless, but you have to consider over the next two seasons Boeser, Miller, and Horvat are going to require long contracts with raises up to the $8M range, and thanks to Jimbo the team probably won't have the cap space for all of them.

 

[logan5]

I thought you said rebuilds take 7-9 years

I said that. And it's true, depending on your definition of a rebuild. Canucks are heading past that 7 to 9 year point it looks like. Though with the pieces we have, a new GM should be able to retool the team fairly easily and quickly.

Supposing a new GM takes over at the end of this season, here's what he has to work with, either in trades to other teams or keep.

J.T. Miller - age 28. one more year after this one on a fantastic contract. Becomes UFA after 22/23

Conor Garland- age 25. Signed to 5 year deal at less than 5 per through his prime, makes him very valuable as a trade asset.

Quinn Hughes - age 22. Franchise level offensive defenseman. 7.85 per makes him attractive to other team in trade, or keep him.

Bo Horvat - age 26. Good 2c on decent contract. UFA after 22/23 season.

Brock Boeser - age 24. Still only 24 and has scored on a 30+ goal pace (82 games) in 3 out of 4 full seasons. he is RFA at the end of current contract.

Nils Hoglander - age 21. Tied for 1st on team with 5 even strength goals. Non stop motor that makes things happen.

Elias Pettersson - age 23. Going through a tough stretch, but still imo a franchise player 1c.

Vasily Podkolzin - age 20. Showing every sign that he will live up to being the 10 overall. Power forward with a hard accurate shot. Strong as an ox with skating ability to beat guys wide.

Thatcher Demko - age 26. One of the best goalies in the league. There's no way you trade him.

Jack Rathbone - age 22. Showing signs of being at least a good 2 pairing offensive defenseman. Unreal skating ability, has a good hard shot, and is strong for his size.

1st round 2022 draft. Should be a high draft pick in a very strong draft class.

That's a lot of assets to work with. I would keep Hughes, Podkolzin, Demko, Pettersson (an elite 1c is hard to find), Hoglander, and Rathbone. They are all 23 and under (except Demko) and represent a lot of rebuilding work. Like 4 years worth. The other assets should add some good young players as well. Shouldn't take long at all for a new GM to put a good team together.

 

[valkynax]

I said that. And it's true, depending on your definition of a rebuild. Canucks are heading past that 7 to 9 year point it looks like. Though with the pieces we have, a new GM should be able to retool the team fairly easily and quickly.

Supposing a new GM takes over at the end of this season, here's what he has to work with, either in trades to other teams or keep.

J.T. Miller - age 28. one more year after this one on a fantastic contract. Becomes UFA after 22/23

Conor Garland- age 25. Signed to 5 year deal at less than 5 per through his prime, makes him very valuable as a trade asset.

Quinn Hughes - age 22. Franchise level offensive defenseman. 7.85 per makes him attractive to other team in trade, or keep him.

Bo Horvat - age 26. Good 2c on decent contract. UFA after 22/23 season.

Brock Boeser - age 24. Still only 24 and has scored on a 30+ goal pace (82 games) in 3 out of 4 full seasons. he is RFA at the end of current contract.

Nils Hoglander - age 21. Tied for 1st on team with 5 even strength goals. Non stop motor that makes things happen.

Elias Pettersson - age 23. Going through a tough stretch, but still imo a franchise player 1c.

Vasily Podkolzin - age 20. Showing every sign that he will live up to being the 10 overall. Power forward with a hard accurate shot. Strong as an ox with skating ability to beat guys wide.

Thatcher Demko - age 26. One of the best goalies in the league. There's no way you trade him.

Jack Rathbone - age 22. Showing signs of being at least a good 2 pairing offensive defenseman. Unreal skating ability, has a good hard shot, and is strong for his size.

1st round 2022 draft. Should be a high draft pick in a very strong draft class.

That's a lot of assets to work with. I would keep Hughes, Podkolzin, Demko, Pettersson (an elite 1c is hard to find), Hoglander, and Rathbone. They are all 23 and under (except Demko) and represent a lot of rebuilding work. Like 4 years worth. The other assets should add some good young players as well. Shouldn't take long at all for a new GM to put a good team together.

How about look at his much longer list of trade failures, how he bled assets like a hemophiliac orphan tossed through a plate glass window, and how he bet on countless reclamation projects and failed in almost all of them? Or how he failed massively on the JV and OJ picks?

And of course, how's our cap situation?

 

[logan5]

How about look at his much longer list of trade failures, how he bled assets like a hemophiliac orphan tossed through a plate glass window, and how he bet on countless reclamation projects and failed in almost all of them? Or how he failed massively on the JV and OJ picks?

And of course, how's our cap situation?

What does that have to do with what I posted? It's a list of assets for a new GM to work with. Nothing to do with Benning.

 

[bbud]

Trading Miller better be for a haul personally i hope he stays hes a player you win with yes hes frustrated says so wants to win we need more players with his heart and skills

 

[Tob]

Love it. Schneider would be an absolute beast on the right side. Othmann looks to have serious skill.
These are exactly the types that should be targeted.

And the Rangers are great partners for a few reasons:
-They already have a very good, young, RHD core at the NHL level. They would be willing to give up an asset.
-They are competitive/contending now. A scoring winger that can also play centre could push them that much closer.
-They have the cap space.

Drury values Schneider probably the most out of Lundkvist, Zac Jones, Matthew Robertson and possibly even K'andre Miller who is on a different timeline development wise. Unlikely Schneider would be involved in a trade even for 2 years of J.T Miller. The Rangers won't have the cap room to keep Miller at $5.25M next year with raises to Zibanejad, Fox kicking in plus Kakko's new contract, Chytil's new contract, Lafreniere a year after that. They will be unable to keep Strome who is Panarin's best friend at the same $5M+ cap hit. The current need for the Rangers is to fill in the hole left by Blais in the top 9 after the season ending injury. I don't think the Rangers are top 6 hunting for a guy like Miller but more so middle 6 hunting for versatility and decent skill for medium price (2nd+2nd tier prospect) or a 1st, or Kravtsov.

Not to mention Glen Sather/Jeff Gorton booted Miller unceremoniously in 2018 and Drury was already a part of that front office then. Sather also has the ears of Dolan still. I wouldn't say Drury would be allergic to Miller but I have a hard time seeing a no nonsense unyielding person like Drury ignore the history.

Miller would be an improvement to Strome on paper but Panarin is practically in a common law relationship with Strome. If the Rangers had $5.25M in cap next year (or whatever JT Miller's cap is), they'd give it to Strome on a 4-5 year deal.

 

[Tob]

Just spitballing with you guys, I'm not a trade guru but I could see Lou want to add Miller to the Islanders team that has lacked top 6 talent for Lou's entire tenure on Long Island.

The Islanders can easily part with a 1st+2nd line player+? I'm not a trade value expert. If Jet Black wants a hockey trade that he can sell to the Aqua and the fans as a "we see this guy as a top 6 player who can play in all situations..." there's not a ton of options. On a team with more offense like the Canucks compared to defense under Trotz, maybe there's more offensive upside with these NYI players, Jim may wishful think.

Beauvillier 24 years old , no protection, $4.15M 3 years left before UFA (1 more year than JTM), 0.6 p/g, listed as LW. That would be a clear upgrade for NYI that they'd be willing to add a 1st and maybe something else for, maybe? Again, not a trade value expert.

Josh Bailey, 32, 3 years left at $5M, 0.64 p/g, listed as LW/RW. No protection and from what I can gather from the disgruntled NYI fans, the fans wouldn't mind moving on from a 32 year old likely on the decline to get younger and better even if Bailey is a lifer and an "A".

J.G Pageau has NTC for 5 years at $5M and Lou and NYI love him so doubt it. They just signed a 30 year old Kyle Palmieri to a 4X$5M deal with NTC as well so I doubt it (though in a vacuum, that would be great for NYI to dump Palmieri's meh contract/meh production for a clear upgrade in Miller so let's hope that's not a landmine Jim accidentally sets off against all odds on his way to the buffet line). Everyone else is too old or not good enough or basically a lateral move to swap for Miller.

From what I can gather, Wahlstrom has been very good and is their top ELC already producing so I'd say he's off the table. Same with Dobson as the top ELC D. They need them to compete. I don't know their prospects well. Well, okay maybe Wahlstrom is not off off the table? I mean, if Lou wants to mortgage the future then that'd be a bold move but maybe too bold.

There's a ton of possibility and value with the Islanders if Jim is willing to take all futures. They have an assortment of prospects like Holmstrom, Bulduc, Bode Wilde, Raty but I don't know anything about them aside from where they were taken. They also have basically all of their own picks. If Jim is looking for a middle 6 player + 1st + something else then that's more trouble than not so maybe they're not a great trade partner after all. I unno, just spit balling because I see Lou making that call and inquiring aggressively given the bad start NYI has had and their historical need for a guy like JTM.

 

[I in the Eye]

It's not about value, or equal value... It's about getting the player that Benning wants. It's not a bug, it's a feature. It makes proposing trades difficult, because it means having to enter the realm of self delusion, and make a trade with Benning while you both are floating on a leaf.

 

[F A N]

Beauvillier 24 years old , no protection, $4.15M 3 years left before UFA (1 more year than JTM), 0.6 p/g, listed as LW. That would be a clear upgrade for NYI that they'd be willing to add a 1st and maybe something else for, maybe? Again, not a trade value expert.

I think this would definitely be a player that the Canucks under Benning would be interested. A direct replacement for Miller, younger, under team control for one more year, and fits into the age group of the Canucks core. His play style also fits. No way NYI offers Beauvillier and a 1st. I would do that deal for the Canucks. I also question whether NYI would trade Beauvillier for Miller. Like you said, the Islanders probably do want to upgrade the top 6 but while Miller is an upgrade, Beauvillier is a pretty good player who plays well in the playoffs.

Josh Bailey, 32, 3 years left at $5M, 0.64 p/g, listed as LW/RW. No protection and from what I can gather from the disgruntled NYI fans, the fans wouldn't mind moving on from a 32 year old likely on the decline to get younger and better even if Bailey is a lifer and an "A".

Hard no. Canucks aren't trading Miller for a less productive older player making similar money with more term.

J.G Pageau has NTC for 5 years at $5M and Lou and NYI love him so doubt it. They just signed a 30 year old Kyle Palmieri to a 4X$5M deal with NTC as well so I doubt it (though in a vacuum, that would be great for NYI to dump Palmieri's meh contract/meh production for a clear upgrade in Miller so let's hope that's not a landmine Jim accidentally sets off against all odds on his way to the buffet line). Everyone else is too old or not good enough or basically a lateral move to swap for Miller.

Ya I don't think Pageau will waive. I do worry about the term left on his contract and risk of decline. Otherwise, on paper he's exactly what the Canucks need - a right shot C who can play in all situations, especially the PK. It doesn't look like he's good at defensive draws on the PK but is otherwise good at faceoffs. The problem, just like when Danault was discussed here and the thought of moving Miller to C, the merits of having an elite level 3rd line C at ~$5M AAV is questionable and I don't think Pageau is elite at anything. He's a good player, but given Pageau's age and contract I would pass.

From what I can gather, Wahlstrom has been very good and is their top ELC already producing so I'd say he's off the table. Same with Dobson as the top ELC D. They need them to compete. I don't know their prospects well. Well, okay maybe Wahlstrom is not off off the table? I mean, if Lou wants to mortgage the future then that'd be a bold move but maybe too bold.

Wahlstrom is a player Canucks fans liked at the time of the draft. He had a rough draft+1 season but it looks like his career is back on track. If he's available for Miller you do that deal and look to move Boeser for defensive help. Going back to the Beauvillier point though, if the Islanders are looking to add a top 6 forward why would you trade Wahlstrom for Miller? Wahlstrom's goal scoring potential is immense.

At least with Dobson, the Islanders have a top pairing locked up long term and could be willing to move Dobson for more immediate help up front. But the Islanders' top pairing Ds need to get healthy first.

 

[arttk]

I actually think they can with a good GM. The roster has a bad mix of players and it’s woefully out of balance, but they have some assets that can be used to bring a good chunk of that balance. It’s not an easy task, however, and you have to do it without moving picks. Indeed you need to actually get more picks in addition to the roster balancing.

Certainly you need something other than the FA/Benning/Weisbrod “brain trust” to pull it off.

I guess if you get real creative by getting picks from guys like Horvat, Miller, Boeser and then flip those picks to teams thinking of tanking and get youngish players back that are a better fit. Difficult and risky.

 

[tantalum]

I guess if you get real creative by getting picks from guys like Horvat, Miller, Boeser and then flip those picks to teams thinking of tanking and get youngish players back that are a better fit. Difficult and risky.

Oh you'll have to pray on the other lesser GMs in the league, pump up player value, retain as needed etc for sure. Why you need someone who knows what they are doing.

Still, I do think you can definitely improve the team even moving some of those bodies out. It shouldn't be hard for any GM pursuing any type of strategy (rebuild, retool, whatever) to build a better blueline for instance.

 

[arttk]

Oh you'll have to pray on the other lesser GMs in the league, pump up player value, retain as needed etc for sure. Why you need someone who knows what they are doing.

Still, I do think you can definitely improve the team even moving some of those bodies out. It shouldn't be hard for any GM pursuing any type of strategy (rebuild, retool, whatever) to build a better blueline for instance.

The hard part is going to be how do you get out of Myers and Poolman’s dumbass contracts. I suppose you can take salary back to get rid of Myers and maybe a little bit back on Poolmn’s contract. OEL’s contract is really the killer. With him, we will need to force Hughes to learn to PK because we simply cannot only have 2 LD that can PK. It’s hard to see how to balance the D unit when we bave OEL, Ratbone and Hughes.

 

[F A N]

The hard part is going to be how do you get out of Myers and Poolman’s dumbass contracts. I suppose you can take salary back to get rid of Myers and maybe a little bit back on Poolmn’s contract. OEL’s contract is really the killer. With him, we will need to force Hughes to learn to PK because we simply cannot only have 2 LD that can PK. It’s hard to see how to balance the D unit when we bave OEL, Ratbone and Hughes.

I actually think Hughes can be disruptive on the PK with his skating, hockey IQ, and skill level. Sure he lacks size, isn't very good at defending down low, and I don't want him blocking slap shots but that's only part of what makes a good PKer.

 

[krutovsdonut]

So nothing to say. Typical.

if ever there was a case of pot yelling at the kettle this is it.

 

[Fatass]

It’s really foolish to make any trades now. Hire a President who cleans up the mess first.

 

[valkynax]

What does that have to do with what I posted? It's a list of assets for a new GM to work with. Nothing to do with Benning.

I'm telling you about the shit our new GM will have to deal with because of Benning. What, are we playing a game where only Benning's good is allowed to be pointed out but not the bad?

You say the team will be in a great position, and I'm telling you how hilariously wrong you are - just like your bullshit prediction of somehow this team being a playoff team this year, or your list of teams that missed playoffs while conveniently ignoring how many of those teams actively traded assets and picks away while being in cap hell AND served under one GM. But you can't acknowledge any of the fine and important details, because the moment you do, all your false narratives fall apart like a pack of cards.

The list of players you made basically inflated EVERYONE to their absolute best position, nothing can go wrong with any of their development or performance. That's the exact line of thinking that's causing that dumb ass James Elmer Benning so puzzled about his monument of fails - why would this not work? I don't get it! All it takes for ma master plan to work is for NOTHING to go wrong, but a lot of things did go wrong, how is that possible????

Also, something something vitriol, feelings hurt, 7/8/9/10/11/12/13/14/15/16/17/18/19/20 year rebuild...etc.