Kucherov now vs Peak Kane

[bathdog]

It does make Kane's 2015-16 look better but it's really not that good of an argument. Say Crosby gets 100 points as well that season. Is Kane then somehow a worse player than he would be if Crosby didn't have a good season as well?

Crosby scoring 15 points or so more has little impact on the overall environment. Kane's year is statistically greater than anything McDavid has ever done (not necessarily equivalent to being a better player), and Kucherov hasn't done anything greater than McDavid so far. I agree that Kucherov's absolute top end competition is greater atm though.

 

[tony d]

I went with peak Kane.

 

[Brucelenok]

Peak Kane benefited playing with Panarin. Kucherov? With all due respect to Stamkos he is not the same player as he used to be. Plus Kucherov is on pace to trump Peak Kane in points as well. So current Kucherov, better defensively as well.

 

[Section88]

Peak Kane benefited playing with Panarin. Kucherov? With all due respect to Stamkos he is not the same player as he used to be. Plus Kucherov is on pace to trump Peak Kane in points as well. So current Kucherov, better defensively as well.

Scoring is also alot higher this year.

 

[authentic]

I feel like even though Kane dominated his competition more at this point, Kucherov has better competition and is clearly better defensively and better at the same age from 23-25. I voted too close to call but if forced to choose I would lean towards Kucherov.

 

[Brucelenok]

Scoring is also alot higher this year.

Thats true too. Cannot argue with that. We have to see at least when Kuch plays at least 20 more or so games to make a fair judgement. But through out their 46 games, it is clear Kuch now vs Kane 3 years ago. Plus again Kuch is better defensively too. Both were on stacked teams as well.

 

[authentic]

Thats true too. Cannot argue with that. We have to see at least when Kuch plays at least 20 more or so games to make a fair judgement. But through out their 46 games, it is clear Kuch now vs Kane 3 years ago. Plus again Kuch is better defensively too. Both were on stacked teams as well.

I lean towards Kucherov but look at the gap Kane had at this point in the season in 2015-16.

NHL.com - Stats

10 points over Benn, 12 over his linemate Seguin and 18 over Karlsson.

Actually come to think of it, besides Benn and Seguin every other top scorer was hovering right around or below a point per game. Scoring truly was much lower and I think competition has very little to do with it.

Players in the 4-10 range were scoring similar to the 30-40th place scorers today.

 

[Chef de Cuisine]

Kane for sure

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Kane. I'd wager Kane is just as good even now. He's putting up major points with average teammates. Kucherov is a monster but he plays with elite players.

 

[TheMule93]

Peak Kane was so far ahead of the competition that season, pretty ridiculous peak honestly.

Kucherov has a narrow lead

 

[COHawk]

I lean towards Kucherov but look at the gap Kane had at this point in the season in 2015-16.

NHL.com - Stats

10 points over Benn, 12 over his linemate Seguin and 18 over Karlsson.

Actually come to think of it, besides Benn and Seguin every other top scorer was hovering right around or below a point per game. Scoring truly was much lower and I think competition has very little to do with it.

Players in the 4-10 range were scoring similar to the 30-40th place scorers today.

So true. Based on those stats you posted, 50 points puts you at 3rd place in 2015/16, wheres 50 points right now ties you for 23rd...

 

[MartinS82]

It's probably just recency bias on my part, but man Kucherov looks SOOO good right now. Every game he seems like he's getting 3 points, and when I watch him (admittedly only 7 or 8 times this year) he seems like he is making defenses look stupid.

 

[Regal]

Why is the quality of a team's 2nd - 4th lines relevant in comparing players on the first line? Does anyone think that, since Kucherov only factors in on (idontknow, 35%) of Tampa's goals, teams decide "**** it, let's make sure we shut down that Anthony Cirelli line". They are the focus of the team's shutdown efforts and they produce. The fact that players also produce behind one of them and not the other is irrelevant.

One of the ways depth helps though is through score effects. Opponents have to open up their games more when they're behind, and Tampa has the lead a lot. As well, if the game is a clear blowout early, it tends to be easier to put up a few more goals since opponents usually aren't putting in a 100% effort in a game they know they've already lost.

Of course this can also impact players on really bad teams as well, where they might score late in a game they've already clearly lost and the winning team is just going through the motions.

 

[The Macho King]

One of the ways depth helps though is through score effects. Opponents have to open up their games more when they're behind, and Tampa has the lead a lot. As well, if the game is a clear blowout early, it tends to be easier to put up a few more goals since opponents usually aren't putting in a 100% effort in a game they know they've already lost.

Conversely, teams press less to score when they have a lead than when they're behind, and focus more on defense. The logic goes round and round.

 

[COHawk]

It's probably just recency bias on my part, but man Kucherov looks SOOO good right now. Every game he seems like he's getting 3 points, and when I watch him (admittedly only 7 or 8 times this year) he seems like he is making defenses look stupid.

For what it's worth - I know this thread is about peak Kane - but Kane has 5 multipoint games in a row right now, and 7 in his last 9 games good for 20 points. He has 18 multipoint games in 47 GP this season (the same number he had thru 47 games in 2015/16 actually). Kucherov currently sits at 23 this season.

 

[MartinS82]

For what it's worth - I know this thread is about peak Kane - but Kane has 5 multipoint games in a row right now, and 7 in his last 9 games good for 20 points. He has 18 multipoint games in 47 GP this season (the same number he had thru 47 games in 2015/16 actually). Kucherov currently sits at 23 this season.

I haven't watched the Hawks much this year, even though NBCSN keeps trying to make me.

I will say that Patrick Kane is one of the few players in the league worth watching even if the team isn't.

 

[Jauffre]

Kucherov

 

[Jauffre]

Kane

 

[SillyRabbit]

Not enough people use the “too close to call” option. For me, it’s the perfect choice.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Kane.

Kuch has had a couple good seasons but can't put it all together

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Not to mention while he has been good in the playoffs he hasnt been Great

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's tough for me to vote anything but Kane after watching his mere presence terrify playoff teams for a long team.

Meanwhile, my memory is tainted by Robyn Regehr plastering Kucherov once and watching him avoid the wall for the rest of the game.

Too close to call in general, but Kane has exhibited a little bit more when it matters so far. Playoff MVP is pretty hard to ignore.

Peak Kane could not be rattled. Peak Kucherov may yet be the better player, but he has something yet to show.

 

[JoVel]

Not to mention while he has been good in the playoffs he hasnt been Great

I assume you mean Kuch hasn't been great in the playoffs and I must ask, what are you smoking?

 

[Section88]

I assume you mean Kuch hasn't been great in the playoffs and I must ask, what are you smoking?

Dont mind him

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Kane had a bigger lead over his competition in pts and he was 2nd in goals compared to Kucherov being outside the top 20.