Kronwalls hit on Kucherov MOD WARNING IN OP (Kronwall suspended for Game 7) - Part II

[ArGarBarGar]

Only in slow motion.

You are right, when the clip is at regular speed, his feet actually stay on the ice the entire time!

 

[hyduK]

I don't get why so many people love Kronwall's hits.

cause they're things of beauty. wonderfully timed, clean hits that make the crowd go crazy.

hopefully he gets some off against MTL.

 

[Bench]

You are right, when the clip is at regular speed, his feet actually stay on the ice the entire time!

If you reverse it, you can actually see Glendening's head viciously attacking an unsuspecting Palat.

The evidence speaks for itself.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

If you reverse it, you can actually see Glendening's head viciously attacking an unsuspecting Palat.

The evidence speaks for itself.

Why yes, yes it does,

And people with greater backgrounds in hockey than you or I, deemed that that hit didn't need to be looked at...

Guess the evidence really does speak for itself...

 

[Syckle78]

Why yes, yes it does,

And people with greater backgrounds in hockey than you or I, deemed that that hit didn't need to be looked at...

Guess the evidence really does speak for itself...

You're going to use the appeal to authority argument using the DoPS?


.....seriously?

 

[Bench]

Why yes, yes it does,

And people with greater backgrounds in hockey than you or I, deemed that that hit didn't need to be looked at...

Guess the evidence really does speak for itself...

It was a joke.

But since you're so serious about this, I'm not sure using the NHL as an "appeal to authority" argument is the best way to go. They change their mind constantly with discipline and that's been demonstrated countless times over the years.

You're going to use the appeal to authority argument using the DoPS?


.....seriously?

Jinx! Didn't even see your post before putting mine. Love we both picked up on that.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I agree, it's a total mess. It should be revised if they want to get serious about head hits.

I can't see that happening. I posted this a couple years ago, but it still rings true today:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1173399

When you've got THAT many people dealing with THAT many factors, there's no possible way to be consistent from one call to the next.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

You are right, when the clip is at regular speed, his feet actually stay on the ice the entire time!

No.


At regular speed Palat is already committed when Luke hits the brakes. Did Palat leave his feet ? Yes. Does he hit Luke's head first if Glendenning doesn't change direction at the last moment ? Impossible to know.

I already said it and I'll say it again, if Palat is guilty of anything more than a double minor, it's only by suspicion and it's not enough to suspend him.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You're going to use the appeal to authority argument using the DoPS?


.....seriously?

Do they not have more extensive hockey backgrounds than....anyone here?

Just because you don't like or understand the decisions they make, doesn't mean they don't have more experience and have seen or done...more etc.

 

[kihei]

He deserved a game. The surprising thing is he got one. I wonder if the vote was unanimous.

 

[Bench]

Do they not have more extensive hockey backgrounds than....anyone here?

Just because you don't like or understand the decisions they make, doesn't mean they don't have more experience and have seen or done...more etc.

By that token, every trade, draft pick, coaching decision ever in hockey was a justified decision based upon their superior experience.

Or, sometimes even really experienced humans make mistakes. Particularly when they are part of a bureaucracy and trying to save face on potential firestorm issue that is concussions.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It was a joke.

But since you're so serious about this, I'm not sure using the NHL as an "appeal to authority" argument is the best way to go. They change their mind constantly with discipline and that's been demonstrated countless times over the years.



Jinx! Didn't even see your post before putting mine. Love we both picked up on that.

Yes, yes they do, they changed it from the 70's where, this would have been a love tap, to the 80's where they would have fought, to the 90's where they would have tied up in a bow, to now where they know more about head shots...

Unless you are arguing that they shouldn't change their minds, have one stuck in cement rule be the end all be all of discipline?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

By that token, every trade, draft pick, coaching decision ever in hockey was a justified decision based upon their superior experience.

Or, sometimes even really experienced humans make mistakes. Particularly when they are part of a bureaucracy and trying to safe face on potential firestorm issue that is concussions.

Justified...or correct.....or right...which one were you going for there? Just because it was justified, doesn't make it correct...

But when it comes to things like this, and deciding if a play is suspendable or not, would you rather have people who have absolutely no idea how fast the game is out there, ie. you, me, and 90% of the board here, or guys who have played at that level, and know the intricacies of the game?

 

[Bench]

Unless you are arguing that they shouldn't change their minds, have one stuck in cement rule be the end all be all of discipline?

Yes, that's exactly right.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Palat was crouched over, he made himself about a foot shorter than he normally is. If he was upright that elbow hits his chest.

I assume you mean Kucherov was crouched over?

Kucherov wouldn't have been protecting himself by standing upright in the context of trying to play the puck off the boards on his backhand... no NHL player would straighten up in that situation. The act of controlling the puck and then sweeping it across your body, while making a cut to avoid running into the boards, requires a deep knee bend.

The thing is, Kronwall was in a perfect position to read that situation, recognize Kucherov's body position and choose his hit appropriately. He could very easily have bodied him up and eliminated him from the play, but he CHOSE to go for the high hit instead. That's what makes this play suspendable. He was by no means obligated to throw the hit the way he did, so he is accountable for the choice he made.

I'm not saying that excuses Kronwall's hit, I'm saying I dint buy your excuse for palat. He jumped and targeted glendenings head. Period.

I'm not excusing Palat -- like I said, he should have been penalized for charging since he traveled a fair distance and left his feet to make the hit. I could even understand if the ref looked at that and saw a major penalty.

But when it comes down to supplementary discipline, the Palat hit just doesn't rise to that level. The head contact was the result of Glendening's sudden stop, which lined his head up as the point of contact. If he keeps going, it's still an illegal charge but not a headshot. That element of difference isn't under Palat's control, and the league has made it fairly clear that they don't hold incidental factors against the offender when deciding whether to issue suspensions.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

No.


At regular speed Palat is already committed when Luke hits the brakes. Did Palat leave his feet ? Yes. Does he hit Luke's head first if Glendenning doesn't change direction at the last moment ? Impossible to know.

I already said it and I'll say it again, if Palat is guilty of anything more than a double minor, it's only by suspicion and it's not enough to suspend him.

Palat leaves his feet after Glendening slows down, and if he hits any part of his body he would most likely hit the head due to how high he is making the hit. Glendening actually makes it easier for Palat to make a shoulder to chest hit, yet somehow that doesn't happen.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Yes, that's exactly right.

So you are upset because they change their mind on discipline....yet...you don't want a hard fast rule for discipline...

Interesting concepts...

Maybe, just maybe they aren't changing their mind, but everything is a shade of grey...just saying...

 

[ArGarBarGar]

But when it comes down to supplementary discipline, the Palat hit just doesn't rise to that level. The head contact was the result of Glendening's sudden stop, which lined his head up as the point of contact. If he keeps going, it's still an illegal charge but not a headshot. That element of difference isn't under Palat's control, and the league has made it fairly clear that they don't hold incidental factors against the offender when deciding whether to issue suspensions.

This keeps getting said, but how does Palat hit the shoulder/body and not the head if Glendening doesn't stop? Glendening doesn't duck, and Palat's shoulder is above Glendenings head when he makes contact.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Palat leaves his feet after Glendening slows down, and if he hits any part of his body he would most likely hit the head due to how high he is making the hit. Glendening actually makes it easier for Palat to make a shoulder to chest hit, yet somehow that doesn't happen.

Now you are just clutching....

So you admit that Palat leaves his feet at pretty much the point of impact...and yet you think Glendening by stopping makes it easier to hit his shoulder...

Man, biased knows no boundaries does it...

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Do they not have more extensive hockey backgrounds than....anyone here?

Just because you don't like or understand the decisions they make, doesn't mean they don't have more experience and have seen or done...more etc.

That's such a tired and flawed line of reasoning. It can be used for every single discussion on this board. "They have more experience so they must be right."

It also calls into question the very existence of this forum. Why discuss anything on hfboards? Obviously the NHL and its players have more extensive hockey backgrounds than anyone here.

Nevermind that refs also have more experience than anyone here, yet they miss calls all the time. Because they're more experienced I guess they're always correct.

The Oilers management has more experience than anyone here, so they must be making all the right decisions too. Do you know how many Cups Lowe has won?

 

[SabresSharks]

The cynic in me says the DoPS was motivated, at least in part, by criticism that there have been no suspensions for other questionable plays during these playoffs.

I'll be cheering for the Lightning, but the timing of this suspension is simply awful for the Wings.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Palat leaves his feet after Glendening slows down, and if he hits any part of his body he would most likely hit the head due to how high he is making the hit. Glendening actually makes it easier for Palat to make a shoulder to chest hit, yet somehow that doesn't happen.

They don't have time to adjust so quickly, literally half a second before impact, it's too late to make such an adjustment.
Let's agree to disagree then, I'm done with this topic.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Now you are just clutching....

So you admit that Palat leaves his feet at pretty much the point of impact...and yet you think Glendening by stopping makes it easier to hit his shoulder...

Man, biased knows no boundaries does it...

No I'm not. Where in the world did you get that from my post?

They don't have time to adjust so quickly, literally half a second before impact, it's too late to make such an adjustment.
Let's agree to disagree then, I'm done with this topic.

Adjust to Glendening's head being in the same spot? Glendening didn't make Palat leave his feet. Glendening didn't make Palat hit him in the head. There was no adjustment to be made as Palat had a straight shot to him and would have made a clean hit if not for leaving the feet.

 

[Bench]

but everything is a shade of grey...just saying...

That's true. The NHL did tie up Kronwall and spank him with the paddle.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

i don't blame wing fans for being mad, palat should probably be out to, but if you think kronwall's hit is clean then you have no regard for player safety