Dreger: Kreider most likely to be traded after contract talks. 1st Rounder on the table.

[TGWL]

I feel like if I was a GM, and I really valued Kreider, I'd just offer him $7.5-8 million x 6 years in the offseason, no need to give up prospects, etc.

The point is to get Kreider now for the playoff run. Nobody outside the playoffs, or contending threats are trading for Kreider. Waiting doesn't help those teams.

 

[inthe6ix]

But low?
As people love to mention he's been seen as the top UFA this whole time.

meant were looking to buy low - obviously that window has passed with 13pts in 10 since the break

 

[GAGLine]

There's a handful of fans wanting teams top prospects included in the deal, but most of us NYR fans agree that a 1st plus good prospect is what we're wanting back. The closer the prospect is to making an NHL roster, the better the deal is for us.

I want a roster player too. Last year, Hayes returned a 1st and a roster player (Lemieux). If Kreider goes to Boston, Heinen will probably have to come back anyway for cap purposes. If he goes to Colorado, maybe it's Jost or Kamenev.

I think Kreider ends up going for a 1st + young bottom 6 player + prospect.

 

[BB88]

meant were looking to buy low - obviously that window has passed with 13pts in 10 since the break

And I still ask who thought you could buy Kreider low?

 

[eco's bones]

I have a close friend who is a Rangers fan and she is thinking like this about the Rangers and as an unbiased observer, its so wrong. The Rangers may be close to a playoff spot, but they are not a good team. Kreider is likely not going to be a factor on the next great Rangers team which is probably 4-5 years away. They have some nice players but their young players/prospect pool is really where they will build something good in the future. If they try to sneak into the playoffs (and this is still a long shot) by not trading Kreider they will get absolutely leveled in the first round by Tampa or Boston and will have lost out on a chance at a 1st rounder and a good prospect. I really like Kreider. I'd be willing to pay the price to get him because I think he's a difference maker at 28 yo and my team is a cup contender. The Rangers have a chance at being there as well when guys like Lundkvist, Miller, Kratsov are core players but Kreider will be 32/33 years old before that core is ready to compete for a cup.

This line of thinking is a mistake and for Rangers fan's sakes, I hope Gorton isn't really conflicted about it.

I don't think I agree with you. First---the margins are such that if the Rangers did make the playoffs they would almost have to be going in on a hot streak which pretty much means things will have gelled in some way. Second---I think a team always has to strive to do the best that it can and whether the Rangers went very far in the the playoffs or not if they happened to make the playoffs--making it would be a reward for a group which is the youngest average age in the league and IMO making the playoffs cannot be taken for granted--getting off the carousel of lottery picking also rans (some of whom can't with any regularity get off that carousel) is not just something to be desired--it's something that needs to be done as soon as possible. The longer a team is on that carousel the more corrosive to the culture of a team. If not this year then we absolutely have to get there next year. Playoffs are their own learning experience too.

The other thing is I wouldn't put us 4/5 years from being a good team. I think it's sooner. Shesterkin is 24---he's not really a kid and IMO he's going to be a stud goalie. Georgiev if he sticks around will be an excellent backup. Both Panarin and Zibanejad are players that can carry an offensive line on their own. The Rangers overall record against the best teams in the league with the exception of the Bruins has been good. Their top 6 forwards with the exception of Buchnevich (who is even) are all + players as well as 4 of their regular 6 defensemen. As a team we're +11. About a dozen of our players have over 100 shots on goal at the 59 game mark. It's a young team and a gritty team with a ton of young players and prospects and it's progressing very nicely. Chytil, Kakko, Fox, Lindgren, Howden are all 21 years old or younger. I expect all of them will take another step forward next year. Fox looks like another stud and Chytil and Lindgren have had really good years. Kakko should become a big star.

 

[inthe6ix]

And I still ask who thought you could buy Kreider low?

any interested team before the break when he had 32 in 48
not the +ppg pace he is on now

 

[AirGut]

I don't think I agree with you. First---the margins are such that if the Rangers did make the playoffs they would almost have to be going in on a hot streak which pretty much means things will have gelled in some way. Second---I think a team always has to strive to do the best that it can and whether the Rangers went very far in the the playoffs or not if they happened to make the playoffs--making it would be a reward for a group which is the youngest average age in the league and IMO making the playoffs cannot be taken for granted--getting off the carousel of lottery picking also rans (some of whom can't with any regularity get off that carousel) is not just something to be desired--it's something that needs to be done as soon as possible. The longer a team is on that carousel the more corrosive to the culture of a team. If not this year then we absolutely have to get there next year. Playoffs are their own learning experience too.

The other thing is I wouldn't put us 4/5 years from being a good team. I think it's sooner. Shesterkin is 24---he's not really a kid and IMO he's going to be a stud goalie. Georgiev if he sticks around will be an excellent backup. Both Panarin and Zibanejad are players that can carry an offensive line on their own. The Rangers overall record against the best teams in the league with the exception of the Bruins has been good. Their top 6 forwards with the exception of Buchnevich (who is even) are all + players as well as 4 of their regular 6 defensemen. As a team we're +11. About a dozen of our players have over 100 shots on goal at the 59 game mark. It's a young team and a gritty team with a ton of young players and prospects and it's progressing very nicely. Chytil, Kakko, Fox, Lindgren, Howden are all 21 years old or younger. I expect all of them will take another step forward next year. Fox looks like another stud and Chytil and Lindgren have had really good years. Kakko should become a big star.

Fox is unreal. You look at guys like Makar and Hughes this year and Fox is right there with em. He may not have the points going for him but f*** can he play like an elite defenseman. Even more unbelievable that he's a rookie playing like he's been in the league for years. Fox has easily been our best defenseman this year as a whole. Fox is without a doubt going to overtake Trouba eventually as the #1

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

He didn't say asking price, he said that's what Kreider will fetch. The asking price is likely even higher than what he said.

And I'm not sure one flimsy list of the top 100 prospects proves your point. I think his draft position not even a year ago is a lot more indicative of how the league values him.

How does he know what he’ll fetch that’s not how trade negotiations work, he literally only knows what the Rangers feel he’s worth. Even the most desperate team isn’t going to simply accept that without trying to talk it down.

Could it be what he nets them? Maybe, but the point is we don’t actually know what worth is until a trade happens, it’s literally the point of this forum.

 

[burstnbloom]

I don't think I agree with you. First---the margins are such that if the Rangers did make the playoffs they would almost have to be going in on a hot streak which pretty much means things will have gelled in some way. Second---I think a team always has to strive to do the best that it can and whether the Rangers went very far in the the playoffs or not if they happened to make the playoffs--making it would be a reward for a group which is the youngest average age in the league and IMO making the playoffs cannot be taken for granted--getting off the carousel of lottery picking also rans (some of whom can't with any regularity get off that carousel) is not just something to be desired--it's something that needs to be done as soon as possible. The longer a team is on that carousel the more corrosive to the culture of a team. If not this year then we absolutely have to get there next year. Playoffs are their own learning experience too.

The other thing is I wouldn't put us 4/5 years from being a good team. I think it's sooner. Shesterkin is 24---he's not really a kid and IMO he's going to be a stud goalie. Georgiev if he sticks around will be an excellent backup. Both Panarin and Zibanejad are players that can carry an offensive line on their own. The Rangers overall record against the best teams in the league with the exception of the Bruins has been good. Their top 6 forwards with the exception of Buchnevich (who is even) are all + players as well as 4 of their regular 6 defensemen. As a team we're +11. About a dozen of our players have over 100 shots on goal at the 59 game mark. It's a young team and a gritty team with a ton of young players and prospects and it's progressing very nicely. Chytil, Kakko, Fox, Lindgren, Howden are all 21 years old or younger. I expect all of them will take another step forward next year. Fox looks like another stud and Chytil and Lindgren have had really good years. Kakko should become a big star.

I hear you on some of this stuff, but the Rangers have actually been pretty fortunate based on their underlying numbers and they are being hugely carried by Panarin driving his line and the recent play of Kreider/Mika. Guys like Strome, Buch, and Deangelo are scoring but are being carried by ther linemates. They are one of the worst shot share teams in the league and are getting scoring because of an absolutely elite player dragging his line to success and another line with 2 pretty good players scoring. That's not nearly enough. Eve with a fair amount of good fortune they are still just exactly average in xGF. They get dominated in shot share, scoring chances against, high danger chances against etc etc. I think they have a really exciting young core of players that needs to get better. Fox, Chytil, Kakko, Lundqvist, Miller is the start of something good but they need time to mature. It will take years. If you want to pay a premium for a likely declining asset over the course of his contract in Kreider, I guess I understand but it feels like a pretty big mistake. Their best bet is to trade their aging assets for more captital and wait out some of the bad contracts. Skjei need to go. Staal needs to get off the books, same with Hank and Brendan Smith. If they use these two years to load up they will be ready to capitalize when the Caps and Pens are completely aged out of their core and have a great chance at owning the Metro.

 

[Favin]

He didn't say asking price, he said that's what Kreider will fetch. The asking price is likely even higher than what he said.

He said:

“Right now, the Rangers expect to get a first-round pick, a good prospect as well as a third piece, which could be a player, a lesser pick or a lesser prospect, and possibly a conditional pick if the team that acquires Kreider ends up signing him to a long-term deal."

Sounds like that's the ask from Rangers. Not bid price from other teams.

I think the consensus view is he will get a late 1st round pick and a pretty decent prospect (and perhaps role player as third piece). I am guessing ballpark range of.....Colorado (Kaut/Kemenev/1st), Boston (Frederic/Heinen/1st), Islanders (Bellows or Koivula/1st/3rd), St. Louis (Kyrou/Toropchenko/1st). And throw-in conditional 2021 pick for resigning him.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

How does he know what he’ll fetch that’s not how trade negotiations work, he literally only knows what the Rangers feel he’s worth. Even the most desperate team isn’t going to simply accept that without trying to talk it down.

Could it be what he nets them? Maybe, but the point is we don’t actually know what worth is until a trade happens, it’s literally the point of this forum.

I don’t think everything these insiders report is only based on what a team is asking for. I think they get a sense of what an eventual trade will cost, given the different considerations. I think people who’ve seen enough of these trades usually are able to decipher the eventual price.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He said:

“Right now, the Rangers expect to get a first-round pick, a good prospect as well as a third piece, which could be a player, a lesser pick or a lesser prospect, and possibly a conditional pick if the team that acquires Kreider ends up signing him to a long-term deal."

Sounds like that's the ask from Rangers. Not bid price from other teams.

I think the consensus view is he will get a late 1st round pick and a pretty decent prospect (and perhaps role player as third piece). I am guessing ballpark range of.....Colorado (Kaut/Kemenev/1st), Boston (Frederic/Heinen/1st), Islanders (Bellows or Koivula/1st/3rd), St. Louis (Kyrou/Toropchenko/1st). And throw-in conditional 2021 pick for resigning him.

Was that the pre-game or first intermission interview?

 

[JoemAvs]

He said:

“Right now, the Rangers expect to get a first-round pick, a good prospect as well as a third piece, which could be a player, a lesser pick or a lesser prospect, and possibly a conditional pick if the team that acquires Kreider ends up signing him to a long-term deal."

Sounds like that's the ask from Rangers. Not bid price from other teams.

I think the consensus view is he will get a late 1st round pick and a pretty decent prospect (and perhaps role player as third piece). I am guessing ballpark range of.....Colorado (Kaut/Kemenev/1st), Boston (Frederic/Heinen/1st), Islanders (Bellows or Koivula/1st/3rd), St. Louis (Kyrou/Toropchenko/1st). And throw-in conditional 2021 pick for resigning him.

I think these deals are still too rich. Want no part of that as an Avs fan for example. Sure could see the Bruins pay up and make that deal but really doubt the Avs would entertain it unless some sort of extension for Kreider is part of the deal. Thats your 2018 1st and 2020 1st walking out of the door on July 1st in all likelyhood. Thats a metric ton of value for a few months of a (very good) complementary winger.

Also everyone that has been listening to Sakics interviews lately should have noticed that he seemed way more interested in trading for longer term pieces than for only rentals. I think they are interested in Kreider the player. They have been for quite some time. I doubt that they are as interested as these media types seem to think unless Kreider atleast gives them some assurances that he would re-sign with them at a decent price.
Which seems very unlikely considering the Rangers haven't even made a decision yet on Kreider and that he probably would not have much interest in helping this get done.

 

[Michoulicious]

With Boston out, Washington or Colorado?

 

[Trxjw]

With Boston out, Washington or Colorado?

Islanders in the mix as well, supposedly.

Then of course there's the 4th team nobody talks about: The NY Rangers. They'd like to keep him if the price is right.

 

[RangersFan1994]

With Boston out, Washington or Colorado?

why would Boston be out? they can still acquire Kreider if they wanted too.

 

[S3rkie]

why would Boston be out? they can still acquire Kreider if they wanted too.

Rags want a 2020 1st rounder as part of the deal no?

 

[Michoulicious]

why would Boston be out? they can still acquire Kreider if they wanted too.

They don't have a 2020 1st.

 

[Merrrlin]

If the Rangers win tonight, they are 5 points out with 2 games in hand on the top wildcard spot....this Kreider situation might be the most interesting we've had in a while.

I'd like to see him go to Washington or NYI personally. Colorado can probably move the best pieces though.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I dont think Boston is out. I think they swing for the fences. Were close last year and with Kreider I see them going back and getting it done this time. Maybe even so with just Kase.

 

[JennyHockey]

wouldn't be surprised if he goes to NYI or Dallas.

 

[eco's bones]

I hear you on some of this stuff, but the Rangers have actually been pretty fortunate based on their underlying numbers and they are being hugely carried by Panarin driving his line and the recent play of Kreider/Mika. Guys like Strome, Buch, and Deangelo are scoring but are being carried by ther linemates. They are one of the worst shot share teams in the league and are getting scoring because of an absolutely elite player dragging his line to success and another line with 2 pretty good players scoring. That's not nearly enough. Eve with a fair amount of good fortune they are still just exactly average in xGF. They get dominated in shot share, scoring chances against, high danger chances against etc etc. I think they have a really exciting young core of players that needs to get better. Fox, Chytil, Kakko, Lundqvist, Miller is the start of something good but they need time to mature. It will take years. If you want to pay a premium for a likely declining asset over the course of his contract in Kreider, I guess I understand but it feels like a pretty big mistake. Their best bet is to trade their aging assets for more captital and wait out some of the bad contracts. Skjei need to go. Staal needs to get off the books, same with Hank and Brendan Smith. If they use these two years to load up they will be ready to capitalize when the Caps and Pens are completely aged out of their core and have a great chance at owning the Metro.

It's somewhat a matter of waiting and seeing. We have a real cap issue next year but after 20-21 Smith, Staal, Lundqvist depart and we'll have mostly ELC and second contract guys and the cap should be easy to manage at that point. To me next year is the real hurdle to get through and as far as Kreider goes if it weren't for the problems next year I wouldn't have a real issue giving him the contract he wants. As for dealing him at the deadline--drafts are tiered and quite often by the time you get to the end of the 1st round you've done 4 or 5 tiers already and you're kind of getting into a guessing game and you're kind of talking about 2nd maybe their liners or anywhere from what might turn into a Number 2D to all the way to a 5D depending somewhat on how deep the draft is and somewhat on your scouting staff and somewhat on luck that your guy is going to develop. A 1st is a good prospect but it's still a gamble with some potential to bust. At the same time the Rangers have a load of prospects still to sort through and adding more will be more to sort through--though there's also a chance that you combine assets and move up in the draft or target a particular player in a trade.

There are a lot of variables anyway---we don't know what Kreider's asking for to sign a new contract--we have a fairly good idea (from McKenzie) what the Rangers are asking for in a trade and which teams might be interested. We can conjecture what each of those teams might trade to get Kreider but until it actually happens that's all guesswork. He had chemistry with Zibanejad--and he's always in fantastic shape and is a great skater. I could see him still being very good 5/6 years from now so I'm not that concerned if we do resign him. If we do move him we want to max out as much as possible the return. He's a unique player for the Rangers and often does not get points for goals he plays a big part in--his screens in front of the net for instance.

 

[BB88]

any interested team before the break when he had 32 in 48
not the +ppg pace he is on now

He was always getting a 1st+ prospect, highly doubt this suddenly means best prospect+ 1st.

Also if it’s true Palmieri is Bostons top target that wouldn’t help the Rangers at all

 

[eco's bones]

Fox is unreal. You look at guys like Makar and Hughes this year and Fox is right there with em. He may not have the points going for him but f*ck can he play like an elite defenseman. Even more unbelievable that he's a rookie playing like he's been in the league for years. Fox has easily been our best defenseman this year as a whole. Fox is without a doubt going to overtake Trouba eventually as the #1

The big difference is Makar and Hughes are better skaters but apart from that they're all about the same. Fox might well be the Rangers best defenseman in the next year or two. DeAngelo right now is getting the lion's share of the power play and is a smoother skater but Fox is younger, smarter and better defensively. The right side of our D has put up 100 points in 59 games (DeAngelo 45, Fox 31, Trouba 24---that's pretty astounding production.

I like Trouba in that he takes the harder assignments. I don't know if he's having his best year though. We need some D with size who can manage the front of the net and can take the lion's share of penalty kill time. DeAngelo fights well for his size but he's not really a physical player. Trouba allows Fox and DeAngelo to play more to their strengths. Fox is going to get better and better though.

 

[Avaholic29]

I want a roster player too. Last year, Hayes returned a 1st and a roster player (Lemieux). If Kreider goes to Boston, Heinen will probably have to come back anyway for cap purposes. If he goes to Colorado, maybe it's Jost or Kamenev.

I think Kreider ends up going for a 1st + young bottom 6 player + prospect.

Not sure if avs fans agree or if sakic agrees but I'd gladly do 1st + Kaut + Jost