Proposal: Kreider for Simmonds + 1st

[Ori]

It`s an easy no for Jeff Gorton as well - it`s wrong pieces in my opinion in this divisional proposal.

 

[Machinehead]

Doing it 1 time does not make him a 30 goal guy. It makes it an outlier. Do it multiple times to prove it wasn't a fluke.

He might if he played 3, almost 4 more minutes per game like Simmonds has since the start of 2016.

I think the misconception here is that Kreider is benefiting from being on the Rangers, but the Rangers have been horrible for him.

 

[Starat327]

He might if he played 3, almost 4 more minutes per game like Simmonds has since the start of 2016.

I think the misconception here is that Kreider is benefiting from being on the Rangers, but the Rangers have been horrible for him.

I don't think anyone thinks Kreider is a bad player. But there no guarantee that he just instantly becomes better because he moves to the Flyers, when he's going to play with the same level of talent- and more than likely worse - here.

This move just doesn't fit what the Flyers management team is doing - whether we agree or disagree with it - as evidenced by the Schenn trade.

 

[Hockey down under]

Terrible for the flyers. Simmonds is the better player but it isn't a huge difference. Kreider is injured though and out indefinitely. Why would the Flyers trade Simmonds and a 1st for an injured player?

 

[Machinehead]

I don't think anyone thinks Kreider is a bad player. But there no guarantee that he just instantly becomes better because he moves to the Flyers, when he's going to play with the same level of talent- and more than likely worse - here.

This move just doesn't fit what the Flyers management team is doing - whether we agree or disagree with it - as evidenced by the Schenn trade.

He doesn't need to become better. He's already much better at everything 5v5.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Kreider is a better version of Simmonds.

Kreider is a player who specializes in deflections and board play, on a team that doesn't shoot and doesn't cycle.

He's a 35 goal scorer on the Flyers - or any team with a system.

Are you not familiar with simmonds' game which is pretty much the best parts of his game as well

 

[Starat327]

He doesn't need to become better. He's already much better at everything 5v5.

I wasn't referencing a comparison of the two. You insinuated that because his numbers are better and he plays with a garbage system, he's be better here, but we don't know that to be true. It's entirely possible he regresses here.

What we do know though, is that Simmonds does produce for us, and does it well, so there's really no reason to consider this.

 

[Machinehead]

Are you not familiar with simmonds' game which is pretty much the best parts of his game as well

Yeah, but Kreider is better at it.

 

[Machinehead]

I wasn't referencing a comparison of the two. You insinuated that because his numbers are better and he plays with a garbage system, he's be better here, but we don't know that to be true. It's entirely possible he regresses here.

What we do know though, is that Simmonds does produce for us, and does it well, so there's really no reason to consider this.

That's fair.

 

[Tripod]

He might if he played 3, almost 4 more minutes per game like Simmonds has since the start of 2016.

I think the misconception here is that Kreider is benefiting from being on the Rangers, but the Rangers have been horrible for him.

Huh?

Since the start if 2016:

Kreider 16:31 per game...16:30 at ES+PP
Simmonds 18:50 per games...but plays the PK for 1:27.....so 17:23 per game at ES+PP

NHL.com - Stats

Sorry if our guy also plays the PK to increase his minutes.

 

[tictactoe]

Last 3 years

p/60

Kreider - 1.93
Simmonds - 1.50

g/60

Kreider - 0.92
Simmonds - 0.75

CF%rel

Kreider - 6.51
Simmonds - 3.70

GF%rel

Kreider - 7.82
Simmonds 0.29

xGF%rel

Kreider - 4.89
Simmonds - 1.05

Tipped goals % (net-front presence)

Kreider - 28%
Simmonds - 20%

This is in "AINEC" territory.

Why only 3 years lets do 4 or better yet 5 years.

 

[Machinehead]

Why only 3 years lets do 4 or better yet 5.

Let's do 12 and compare them in high school!

 

[Tripod]

He doesn't need to become better. He's already much better at everything 5v5.

No, it says he is better in NY and their system than Simmonds is in the Flyers system. And we have said before, we know the Flyers have been bad at ES for awhile. Ironically, it happened when our defense turned to shit and our coaches went from Lavi to Berube/Hakstol.

 

[tictactoe]

Let's do 12 and compare them in high school!

So no 5 years comparison? Is that because Simmonds scored 135 while Krieder did not hit 100? Lets compare 5 years.

 

[Machinehead]

No, it says he is better in NY and their system than Simmonds is in the Flyers system. And we have said before, we know the Flyers have been bad at ES for awhile. Ironically, it happened when our defense turned to **** and our coaches went from Lavi to Berube/Hakstol.

lol the Rangers are the worst team in the league at even strength

So no 5 years comparison? Is that because Simmonds scored 135 while Krieder did not hit 100? Lets compare 5 years.

It's cherry picking a sample to favor the older player. Completely pointless.

 

[tictactoe]

lol the Rangers are the worst team in the league at even strength


It's cherry picking a sample to favor the older player. Completely pointless.

It's pretty clear who is doing cherry picking with lets go back only 3 years and check stats.

 

[Machinehead]

It's pretty clear who is doing cherry picking with lets go back only 3 years and check stats.

Fine, you want 5 years, you asked for it

p/60

Kreider - 1.82
Simmonds - 1.56

g/60

Kreider - 0.87
Simmonds - 0.74

CF%rel

Kreider - 3.06
Simmonds - 0.15

GF%rel

Kreider - 6.91
Simmonds - 1.15

xGF%Rel

Kreider - 3.05
Simmonds - 1.95

Wow, Kreider is still much better at god damn everything!

And this includes his rookie year. All aboard the f***ing roflcopter.

 

[Hogan86]

I think this proposal would benefit both teams.

Rangers:
Simmonds
2018 1st (St. Louis Pick)

Flyers
Kreider


Rationale:
Rangers trade the injured Kreider and get an immediate scoring winger that brings grit their team is missing. The Flyers get the streaky winger who sometime looks amazing and other teams seems lost and is having a bad season. Flyers also give Rangers St. Louis' 2018 1st rounder since Krieder is younger and signed two more years.

Thoughts?

Why is Philly paying a first rounder as well?SImmonds is thebetter play (even if he's older and signed for less time) I take Simmonds over Kreider 11 out of 10 times.

 

[tictactoe]

Why is Philly paying a first rounder as well?SImmonds is thebetter play (even if he's older and signed for less time) I take Simmonds over Kreider 11 out of 10 times.

Because Kreider is better at Shot Quality and Expected Goals or Corsi For percentag

 

[Tripod]

Fine, you want 5 years, you asked for it

p/60

Kreider - 1.82
Simmonds - 1.56

g/60

Kreider - 0.87
Simmonds - 0.74

CF%rel

Kreider - 3.06
Simmonds - 0.15

GF%rel

Kreider - 6.91
Simmonds - 1.15

xGF%Rel

Kreider - 3.05
Simmonds - 1.95

Wow, Kreider is still much better at god damn everything!

And this includes his rookie year. All aboard the ****ing roflcopter.

everythng but real points or goals.

Last 5 years:

Simmonds is 42nd in points
Kreider is 111 in points

Simmonds is 12th in goals
Kreider is 52nd in goals

 

[Machinehead]

everythng but real points or goals.

Last 5 years:

Simmonds is 42nd in points
Kreider is 111 in points

Simmonds is 12th in goals
Kreider is 52nd in goals

The player who plays more, scores more.

Riveting stuff.

 

[Starat327]

The player who plays more, scores more.

Riveting stuff.

...so maybe Kreider should make a case to his coach to play him more..?

(Though to be fair, AV is right up there with Hakstol when it comes to player selections)

 

[Tripod]

The player who plays more, scores more.

Riveting stuff.

1 more minute a game is what Simmonds has played over Kreider at ES and PP.

....on a worse scoring team.

 

[Machinehead]

...so maybe Kreider should make a case to his coach to play him more..?

(Though to be fair, AV is right up there with Hakstol when it comes to player selections)

You could make a case to AV that 2 + 2 is 4 and he wouldn't believe you.

He's made his case by being the best player on the Rangers not wearing pads over the duration of his career. It hasn't helped any.

 

[Machinehead]

1 more minute a game is what Simmonds has played over Kreider at ES and PP.

....on a worse scoring team.

And yet somehow, Kreider scores 2 points for every 1.5 points Simmonds scores at even strength.