Confirmed with Link: Kravtsov to Vancouver

[mas0764]

You literally wanted the team to make a special line-up spot just for him when he hadn't earned jack-f***ing-shit.

Don't sit there and complain that I am being petulant when that point only deserves mocking.

Kravtsov was better than Blais, and on top of that, as a top 10 pick, the Rangers owed it to themselves to give him time to develop with play. That's not "making a special line up spot" just for him. That's reality, they invested in him and sometimes you need to let a guy learn on the job over someone with zero upside.

Obviously they were within their right to ask him to go to the minors, but that's besides the point.

 

[eco's bones]

Well we now know the Blais experiment was a complete disaster that was undertaken merely for purposes of being able to say the team is heavier, not better.

It would have been for literally all parties benefit to keep Kravtsov on the team and dressed at the time.

Yeah, it was nothing earth shattering. Should have just let it play out.



Well said. How about just scrolling past things we don't agree with? Not everything is trolling that needs to be stopped.

What I know about Blais is that PK Subban f***ed up his ACL big time.....and that's an injury that can f*** with a player for a year and a half out of surgery. By the time we moved him back to St. Louis he still didn't seem right.

Any case the Rangers did move him in a package for Tarasenko and Mikkola who may help take our team deep into the playoffs this year so saying the Blais 'experiment' was a disaster is a little premature.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Blais wasn’t even on the team in 2019-20 when Krav used his EAC

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Kravtsov was better than Blais, and on top of that, as a top 10 pick, the Rangers owed it to themselves to give him time to develop with play. That's not "making a special line up spot" just for him.

Obviously they were within their right to ask him to go to the minors, but that's besides the point.

So your solution was to play Kravtsov on the 4th line (all while he was waivers-exempt)? Blais had clearly earned that spot before he had his knee blown out.

What are you smoking?

This is laughable. You literally wanted to give the dope a special needs spot. One that wasn't earned. And for no other reason than his draft pedigree. Just pathetic.

Blais wasn’t even on the team in 2019-20 when Krav used his EAC

He's whining about Blais rightfully making the roster in 21-22 over Kravtsov. It's pure lunacy. I can see why you're confused since his point is so absurd.

 

[mas0764]

So your solution was to play Kravtsov on the 4th line (all while he was waivers-exempt)? Blais had clearly earned that spot before he had his knee blown out.

My recollection is that there were multiple players I probably would have kept Kravtsov over, including Dryden Hunt, or, alternatively, could have kept Kravtsov up and scratched him.

I don't really agree that Blais earned that spot and was better. The team felt that way for one specific reason, they wanted a player who profiled as a grinder and Blais was that and Kravtsov wasn't; not that the overall metrics said Blais or Hunt were actually better players (they don't and aren't). I would have constructed the roster differently and then Blais and Hunt wouldn't have "earned" the spot because they have no skill. The Rangers chose roster construction that favored no skill over skill for the last spots.

Once that decision was made, which is the wrong decision as they are now rectifying, the clear choice is to send Krav down.

He rejected that. That's on him. It's his fault.

But knowing the outcome looming, yes, the Rangers should have then reacted differently. That's their fault and it's on them. They'd be better off today and he probably would be too had they kept him and not let him go dashing back to Russia.

Just pathetic.

Grow up.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

My recollection is that there were multiple players I probably would have kept Kravtsov over, including Dryden Hunt, or, alternatively, could have kept Kravtsov up and scratched him.

I don't really agree that Blais earned that spot and was better. The team felt that way for one specific reason, they wanted a player who profiled as a grinder and Blais was that and Kravtsov wasn't; not that the overall metrics said Blais or Hunt were actually better players. I would have constructed the roster differently and then Blais and Hunt wouldn't have "earned" the spot because they have no skill. The Rangers chose roster construction that favored no skill over skill for the last spots.

Once that decision was made, which is the wrong decision as they are now rectifying, the clear choice is to send Krav down.

He rejected that. That's on him. It's his fault.

But knowing the outcome looming, yes, the Rangers should have then reacted differently. That's their fault and it's on them.

Grow up.

On what planet would Kravtsov been a better 4th line fit than guys like Hunt or Blais?

Also, the comments on Blais are incredibly foolish and appear to be recency bias. Blais was making an impact before he had his ACL shredded.

Again, where was Kravtsov going to play on the team? And on what planet did he beat out Blais? I can see an argument made that he was showing more offense than Hunt, but Hunt was basically a 4th line plug. He also filled the Fast role, although not that well, at times.

This is so absurd. And your "grow up" shot at the end is some great projection. Take your own advice. Stop demanding roster spots for petulant children who didn't earn them.

 

[eco's bones]

Besides everything else a player who is not strong enough to handle NHL battles is not going to develop much at all just playing NHL games.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Besides everything else a player who is not strong enough to handle NHL battles is not going to develop much at all just playing NHL games.

That's another problem of his. I've seen no indication that he's shown any desire or ability to work on that aspect of his game. He did nothing about it in Russia. Seemingly just ignored the constructive criticism.

 

[eco's bones]

You know I like Matt Robertson. Let's just let him play on our roster until he figures things out whether he plays like shit or not.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Some more fun:

Sammy Blais scored at a higher clip on the Rangers in 21/22 than Kravtsov did on the Rangers in 20/21.

You know, if Kravtsov had put up a PPG in Russia when he whined his way back home, I may have put some credence into the idea that maybe he should've been on the team. He couldn't even hit .75 PPG on his squad.

I remember at the time saying that I was troubled by his output. Teemu Pulkkinen put up a higher PPG on the same team.

 

[mas0764]

On what planet would Kravtsov been a better 4th line fit than guys like Hunt or Blais?

I probably would have had Krav on the third, Blais on the fourth, and Hunt in the press box.

But then I'm also not dogmatically chained to some sort of hierarchy of slotting players on higher or lower lines based on seniority, etc, for example, when people were saying last year - and were incorrect - that Kreider can't play on the third line while Lafreniere plays on the first. It's what's good for the team that's most important and what's best for the team might be, in that situation, letting Lafreniere get minutes with more skilled players.

Same applies with Krav. Even if Blais was slightly better, which I think merely depends on what you are wanting the player to do (ie, if it's hitting, it's Blais, if it's skill, it's Kravtsov), the team is better overall with the configuration I named, not least because it helps develop a player into something more than he is.

And I think we are also perhaps mistaking what Blais earned. Reports were also at the time that they wanted Krav down for a conditioning assignment, not that he was incapable of playing a third line spot. The reports at the time were for him to go down and get up to speed and that a spot would be waiting for him in 2-4 weeks.

They could have had him work on his conditioning with the big club while scratched. They demanded he obey and that was a big mistake.

Also, the comments on Blais are incredibly foolish and appear to be recency bias. Blais was making an impact before he had his ACL shredded.

Again, where was Kravtsov going to play on the team? And on what planet did he beat out Blais? I can see an argument made that he was showing more offense than Hunt, but Hunt was basically a 4th line plug. He also filled the Fast role, although not that well, at times.

This is so absurd. And your "grow up" shot at the end is some great projection. Take your own advice. Stop demanding roster spots for petulant children who didn't earn them.

I'm not demanding anything; I'm explaining why the Rangers made a mistake and I've done so without acting like a child myself.

 

[mas0764]

That's another problem of his. I've seen no indication that he's shown any desire or ability to work on that aspect of his game. He did nothing about it in Russia. Seemingly just ignored the constructive criticism.

Yeah, this is true.

But then again no one is saying Krav isn't also at fault.

Well, except maybe Ed Jovo, but that's schtick.

 

[ArPanet]

Some more fun:

Sammy Blais scored at a higher clip on the Rangers in 21/22 than Kravtsov did on the Rangers in 20/21.

You know, if Kravtsov had put up a PPG in Russia when he whined his way back home, I may have put some credence into the idea that maybe he should've been on the team. He couldn't even hit .75 PPG on his squad.

I remember at the time saying that I was troubled by his output. Teemu Pulkkinen put up a higher PPG on the same team.

didnt Kravtsov get sent down in Russia after he returned the first time?

 

[Hunter Gathers]

They could have had him work on his conditioning with the big club while scratched. They demanded he obey and that was a big mistake.


I'm not demanding anything; I'm explaining why the Rangers made a mistake and I've done so without acting like a child myself.

So, the Rangers were going to keep him up, scratch him, and have him just work out.

Yeah. That's what a professional NHL team does. Waste a roster spot on a guy who won't play just so he can work out in NY instead of in CT.

That isn't abnormal at all. Nope.

Do you not understand how absurd your takes are?

 

[mas0764]

So, the Rangers were going to keep him up, scratch him, and have him just work out.

Yeah. That's what a professional NHL team does. Waste a roster spot on a guy who won't play just so he can work out in NY instead of in CT.

That isn't abnormal at all. Nope.

Do you not understand how absurd your takes are?

I didn't say it was normal, I said all parties would have been better off if that's what they had done.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I didn't say it was normal, I said all parties would have been better off if that's what they had done.

Because PROFESSIONAL sports teams do things like that.

Wild that the gym equipment in NY is apparently that much better that we should just waste a f***ing roster spot on a guy that you want to just work out.

How the goalposts have shifted since this conversation started. My goodness.

 

[mas0764]

Because PROFESSIONAL sports teams do things like that.

Develop their players? Of course they do.

Pro sports teams keep players with upside over marginally better low upside guys literally all the time.

Wild that the gym equipment in NY is apparently that much better that we should just waste a f***ing roster spot on a guy that you want to just work out.

It's obviously not about the gym equipment in NY being better. I don't agree with the Rangers roster construction choices but when they made the choices they did it is not unreasonable for the Rangers to demote him to Hartford. Perhaps you mistakenly think that's what I'm arguing.

What I'm saying is unreasonable is that when Kravtsov acted unreasonably the Rangers had a choice how to react to that and they made the wrong choice.

How the goalposts have shifted since this conversation started. My goodness.

I haven't changed my position on this in like two years.

And the Rangers are just as wrong as when they made the decision.

Oh well, water under the bridge, the chances are, especially at this point, that Kravtsov doesn't end up amounting to much. But they need to learn some lessons too.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Develop their players? Of course they do.

Pro sports teams keep players with upside over marginally better low upside guys literally all the time.



It's obviously not about the gym equipment in NY being better. I don't agree with the Rangers roster construction choices but when they made the choices they did it is not unreasonable for the Rangers to demote him to Hartford. Perhaps you mistakenly think that's what I'm arguing.

What I'm saying is unreasonable is that when Kravtsov acted unreasonably the Rangers had a choice how to react to that and they made the wrong choice.



I haven't changed my position on this in like two years.

And the Rangers are just as wrong as when they made the decision.

Oh well, water under the bridge. But they need to learn some lessons too.

My brother in Christ, please give your head a shake.

You have been advocating for giving a player a special roster spot just to work out in NY. You are somehow fine with him being scratched (you've admitted this) just so he can work out in NY. As if there is some benefit to working out in NY while being scratched over working out in CT while playing.

What you're saying is absurd. If you cannot understand this, I am at a loss for how to help you.

 

[mas0764]

My brother in Christ, please give your head a shake.

You have been advocating for giving a player a special roster spot just to work out in NY. You are somehow fine with him being scratched (you've admitted this) just so he can work out in NY. As if there is some benefit to working out in NY while being scratched over working out in CT while playing.

There is no benefit to working out in NY over CT. I think I'm being pretty clear about that.

The Rangers should have acted differently because they had an asset worth developing and worth accommodating. Standing on principle was the wrong decision for them.

On top of that, it's not as if this player is completely incapable of playing in the NHL, ie, hence the fact that the accommodation would have been relatively minor.

This is a player who played well in the preseason and if he was "gifted," a spot (though I wouldn't call it that based on what I saw of his play), it would have been at the expense of complete JAG Dryden Hunt and a loss of about 2 minutes a night of ice time for Sammy Blais, a player who literally never scored a goal for us (while VK did).

What you're saying is absurd. If you cannot understand this, I am at a loss for how to help you.

I'm sorry you disagree, but it is not absurd, and in fact, the Rangers were wrong in how they handled the situation.

Even if the ultimate result is that the player flat busts, the prudent move at that time is to preserve the good will with the high-end prospect and to sacrifice Dryden Hunt and 2 minutes of Blais' ice time if necessary. The Rangers were wronged by Kravtsov first with his refusals, perhaps, but out of a responsibility to us fans if no one else they have the obligation to best preserve him as an asset.

What the Rangers chose was adherence to a grit-first lineup, which is a foolish decision to make in the first place since skill wins over can't-play players like Hunt and to a lesser extent even healthy Blais (a decision they are now rectifying by paying through the nose to import more skill), and then when faced with a wrongful player revolt, they chose to stick to principal instead of pragmatism, that being, it costs them basically nothing to let him have his way a tiny bit and try to keep his development on course in North America.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

There is no benefit to working out in NY over CT. I think I'm being pretty clear about that.

The Rangers should have acted differently because they had an asset worth developing and worth accommodating. Standing on principle was the wrong decision for them.

On top of that, it's not as if this player is completely incapable of playing in the NHL, ie, hence the fact that the accommodation would have been relatively minor.

This is a player who played well in the preseason and if he was "gifted," a spot (though I wouldn't call it that based on what I saw of his play), it would have been at the expense of complete JAG Dryden Hunt and a loss of about 2 minutes a night of ice time for Sammy Blais, a player who literally never scored a goal for us (while VK did).



I'm sorry you disagree, but it is not absurd, and in fact, the Rangers were wrong in how they handled the situation.

Even if the ultimate result is that the player flat busts, the prudent move at that time is to preserve the good will with the high-end prospect and to sacrifice Dryden Hunt and 2 minutes of Blais' ice time if necessary. The Rangers were wronged by Kravtsov first with his refusals, perhaps, but out of a responsibility to us fans if no one else they have the obligation to best preserve him as an asset.

 

[mas0764]

I'm fine agreeing to disagree on this subject and hopefully the amount of times the subject has to come up is winding down now that he's a Canuck (though assuredly it's not the final end, as we've seen how the Buch trade requires constant re-litigation), but I'm not gonna sit here and be silent when people say it's "bullshit," and "absurd," that the Rangers couldn't get over their Dryden Hunt and Sammy Blais infatuation to carve out an accomodation for a recent 10th overall pick. They owe it to themselves and to us, forget Krav himself.

 

[McRanger92]

I'm fine agreeing to disagree on this subject and hopefully the amount of times the subject has to come up is winding down now that he's a Canuck (though assuredly it's not the final end, as we've seen how the Buch trade requires constant re-litigation), but I'm not gonna sit here and be silent when people say it's "bullshit," and "absurd," that the Rangers couldn't get over their Dryden Hunt and Sammy Blais infatuation to carve out an accomodation for a recent 10th overall pick. They owe it to themselves and to us, forget Krav himself.

Kravtsov: 10 points in 48 games as a Ranger

Blais 9 points in 54 games as a Ranger

We've spent way to much time discussing these nobodies.

 

[mas0764]

Kravtsov: 10 points in 48 games as a Ranger

Blais 9 points in 54 games as a Ranger

We've spent way to much time discussing these nobodies.

Perhaps.

I think my issue really revolves around the Rangers themselves, though.

I have a big problem with how they handle their youth and development systems. That's why I'm not really willing to let this issue go.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Perhaps.

I think my issue really revolves around the Rangers themselves, though.

I have a big problem with how they handle their youth and development systems. That's why I'm not really willing to let this issue go.

Using Kravtsov as your example ain't it.

 

[mas0764]

Also, it's not as if the opinion that both sides are to blame is particularly outside the mainstream. The Blueshirt Breakaway boys, for example, would say the exact same thing.

I think some on a message board don't always like hearing that their team done goofed.