Post-Game Talk: Knock knock! Who's there? No one. Pens lose to Flyers.

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't think Glass has been very good. I don't remember who said it, either Ogre or Shady, but they were spot on last night:

Glass gets a lot of hits and blocks a lot of shots because he never has the puck. That's a commonality with any line he's on: they never have the puck. Glass is not good with the puck. He is not good at getting the puck. I would rather have a player who is good at getting and keeping the puck but can't block a shot than Glass.

Just my two cents. And no, I don't think you can just say "Glass and Adams aren't a big part of the team's problems."

I think they are.

Yes. But I think they are mostly a problem because the guy supposedly calling the shots can't separate his undying love from his job. Having both on the same team is obviously overkill... but they'd be far, far, far lower profile on just about any other team in the league.

They are two players that just can't seem to get out of their own way. And they are being given far too many opportunities every game to ham-fistedly bungle things up. Which they will... because they are fourth line/scratch players.

Not that I really have to tell you any of this. Preaching to the choir.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Okay. Flip the question. I want you to analyze shift by shift exactly where, why and how he made mistakes. I'll be waiting.

Instead of smug remarks, perhaps you would be willing to engage in your own test. Or perhaps you would like to give a more realistic question.

Hell, lets not stop there. I want the same from you for Crosby. And Letang as well.
We can then pretend that because you can't do this, or won't take the time to do this that your opinion then on the subject means little and feel self righteous and swell because you posed a completely ludicrous request that someone doesn't have the time to do.

In fact, by your own standards, nobody's opinion in this thread matters because guess what? They didn't analyze the game shift by shift, player by player like you are asking of me. That includes your own opinion homeboy.

I never asked for a shift-by-shift analysis, so I'm not sure where you arrived at that. I'm just looking for details (AND ANSWERS) as to how Glass is playing "great". Answers beyond the typical "he adds sandpaper", "knows how to get to his game", "hits anything that moves", etc. What does he do to help the Penguins win and how exactly do those things contribute to the Pens actually winning? That's the question.

I'll do you one better by reverse double flipping the question in pike position (3.0 degree of difficulty). Here is a short list of things Glass has done well this season:

1. Completed a pass (albeit into the skates of Malkin) to led to a goal in the first game;
2. Benefited from blown coverage to score off a faceoff in the 3rd game;
3. Has drawn a few penalties;
4. High number of hits of questionable quality;
5. The end.

Mostly, he frontloaded a couple of isolated plays to shake off the full-body snakebite that he subjected everyone to last season. Beyond those plays, he is still terrible. His relative corsi is almost the exact same as it was last year and is dreadful. He's quietly one of our consistently worst penalty killers which shows up on his GAA/60 at 4 on 5. He's slow, with terrible acceleration and an ice cracking stride that perpetually keeps him removed him from the puck (offensively and defensively). His foot work and lower body strength are so poor that he almost never wins a battle along the boards unless he has a significant head start. His passes tend to go into empty space or to opponents. Ditto on his shots. Most of all, nothing that he does is irreplaceable or helps the Pens actually win games. The next time the Pens win because of a Tanner Glass hit, penalty kill or lost fight will be the first time.

 

[cygnus47]

Yes. But I think they are mostly a problem because the guy supposedly calling the shots can't separate his undying love from his job. Having both on the same team is obviously overkill... but they'd be far, far, far lower profile on just about any other team in the league.

They are two players that just can't seem to get out of their own way. And they are being given far too many opportunities every game to ham-fistedly bungle things up. Which they will... because they are fourth line/scratch players.

Not that I really have to tell you any of this. Preaching to the choir.

At least they've both had flashes of OK this season. Glass was horrific last season. As much as it pains me to say this, they're the most gritty players in our bottom 6. We don't have anyone in the AHL that is both better and more gritty than them (or Vitale) at the moment. We.... I can't believe I'm saying this..... we kinda need them right now.

Our problems are getting the top 9 going, getting to the net (instead of just cycling along the boards until we turn it over) and smartening up the D work. Its the usual support, support, crash the net, more support thing that has been an issue on and off each season.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't completely disagree. I mean... I think you could dump both tomorrow, call up a couple of young guys from the AHL and not really notice a huge difference. But I also think, like many players on this team, that they'd be much more useful under a different regime. The fact that they are being massively overplayed isn't exactly doing them or the team any favors.

To sum up... neither should be nearly this visible night after night. Even with the injuries.

 

[cygnus47]

I don't completely disagree. I mean... I think you could dump both tomorrow, call up a couple of young guys from the AHL and not really notice a huge difference. But I also think, like many players on this team, that they'd be much more useful under a different regime. The fact that they are being massively overplayed isn't exactly doing them or the team any favors.

To sum up... neither should be nearly this visible night after night. Even with the injuries.

I agree and I don't. When they're playing well, they're at least an attribute to the PK. When the PK is playing crap though (not their fault atm, just lazy D), there doesn't seem to be much purpose in their position in the lineup.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Well, like I stated above... I don't at all subscribe to this notion that players should be indispensable to the roster for their PK "prowess." Like... every time someone brings up the fact that Adams should have been let go to make way for younger (and likely more overall effective) legs, the usual opposition response is "but he's so crucial to the PK!"

No... he really isn't. Just about anyone can penalty kill adequately. Honest. I don't even think Adams (certainly not Glass) are anything close to "great" or even "good" penalty killers. They are just... there. And willing.

I assume that's where our viewpoints differ.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I might be alone on this... but I'm not much inclined to get all misty-eyed over a player for their ability to step in front of a puck. It used to be a somewhat-unique aspect to certain players' games and, hence, valuable. These days... everyone blocks shots. To the point where it turns many games into an absolute farce and there has even been discussion over truly zany ways to curtail it.

I feel the same way about penalty killing.

Some teams don't even want their players blocking shots. I think Detroit is one. And I believe there are a few people who believe players should be penalized for dropping down to block a shot. I know Bob Gainey proposed it when he was GM.

While that seems extreme to me, I am not a big fan of shot-blocking. Put Sid and Geno on the PK (together), watch the D-men play on their toes and play keep away with the puck for a while. That's what I would do.

I still think it's an absolute joke that our two best players don't kill penalties. This isn't a situation where the $4 million offensive guys sit and the $2 million checkers kill penalties on this team. We have two guys making $18 million sitting, while bargain-bin guys like Glass and Adams take center stage. It makes ZERO sense.


Onto another topic, listening to Pierre McGuire on the radio here in Montreal earlier...he said something to the effect of, "the Penguins need to wake up here, or else their General Manager is going to get to work in a hurry."

McGuire and Shero are buds, but in this case I highly doubt he's right about this one. I'd love it to be true, but I think this is simply Shero's way of getting someone to throw a little warning out there to the players, but I don't think we should expect much player movement. Shero capped us out, because he felt THIS was the team to take us to the promised land. I don't think we'll see much movement.

Oh and McGuire again stressed on the air how badly "Berube out-coached Bylsma last night." Not that we didn't already know this.

 

[Jacob]

Well, like I stated above... I don't at all subscribe to this notion that players should be indispensable to the roster for their PK "prowess." Like... every time someone brings up the fact that Adams should have been let go to make way for younger (and likely more overall effective) legs, the usual opposition response is "but he's so crucial to the PK!"

No... he really isn't. Just about anyone can penalty kill adequately. Honest. I don't even think Adams (certainly not Glass) are anything close to "great" or even "good" penalty killers. They are just... there. And willing.

I assume that's where our viewpoints differ.

I agree. The only "great" penalty killing forward is the one that can score short-handed consistently.

I mean, if you want to know how easy it is for a forward to kill penalties, look at Zac Rinaldo's PK minutes last night. That guy is basically a pile of human turds in the crude shape of a human being and even he's killing penalties.

I would never keep a forward around just for their penalty killing and I would always favor young legs over old.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I agree. The only "great" penalty killing forward is the one that can score short-handed consistently.

I mean, if you want to know how easy it is for a forward to kill penalties, look at Zac Rinaldo's PK minutes last night.

Yup. I was shocked to see him on the PK last night, and he did a good job at it too. Made a couple of nice plays to clear the zone.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Some teams don't even want their players blocking shots. I think Detroit is one. And I believe there are a few people who believe players should be penalized for dropping down to block a shot. I know Bob Gainey proposed it when he was GM.

While that seems extreme to me, I am not a big fan of shot-blocking. Put Sid and Geno on the PK (together), watch the D-men play on their toes and play keep away with the puck for a while. That's what I would do.

I still think it's an absolute joke that our two best players don't kill penalties. This isn't a situation where the $4 million offensive guys sit and the $2 million checkers kill penalties on this team. We have two guys making $18 million sitting, while bargain-bin guys like Glass and Adams take center stage. It makes ZERO sense.

People will cite injuries... but I agree. Both guys (especially Malkin) need to be involved in the game more in all aspects. Everyone and their mother knows Geno thrives when you feed him icetime and responsibility. He's a confidence/flow player. And he was an ace penalty killer in the KHL. I can't see how he wouldn't at least be decent, here. If nothing else... it would make opposing players nervous.

Despite what the team (and many of the fans and media) seem to say -- I know that effectively playing the penalty kill isn't some sort of mystical secret of the universe than only a select few gurus on the team are capable of channeling on any given night. Dustin friggin' Jeffrey is an excellent penalty killer, for heaven's sake.

And I would be careful what you wish for in regards to wanting Shero to start trading players. I'm assuming that's what you meant.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean, if you want to know how easy it is for a forward to kill penalties, look at Zac Rinaldo's PK minutes last night. That guy is basically a pile of human turds in the crude shape of a human being and even he's killing penalties.

Oh my goodness this is gold.

And highly accurate.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

And I would be careful what you wish for in regards to wanting Shero to start trading players. I'm assuming that's what you meant.

Au contraire, mon ami. After what has transpired since last trading deadline, I cringe at Shero's next moves.

In theory, YES I want changes in personnel. But I want somebody new making those moves.

 

[Darth Vitale]

I'll reiterate what I said after the STL game (although this one was far more annoying a loss IMO): we're not as good as most people here think we are. You're expecting too much for who this team actually is. Until expectations are tempered, every narrow loss is going to feel like the End Times around here. Above all else, the TEAM and coaches, believe they are better than they are. And even Shero might, unfortunately.

It's going to be a long winter most likely (and the politics of the Winter Olympics will have a lot to do with it). Chances of another year passing in Crosby and Malkin's prime with no Cup -- about 80% IMO.

 

[TheBeardofJustice]

Au contraire, mon ami. After what has transpired since last trading deadline, I cringe at Shero's next moves.

In theory, YES I want changes in personnel. But I want somebody new making those moves.

What is the point? Shero could get us Gretzky for a bag of puck and DB would place him on the 3rd line and then down to WBS because he won"t grind hard enough. This team is a joke with organizational matters.

 

[lastcupever75]

This team needs way more size, skill and speed throughout the forward line up. Just nobody who is tough to play against outside of Kunitz in the top 9.

One of Dupuis, Jokinen or Sutter has to go IMO.

$$

That's why this team isn't going anywhere come playoff time. Every goal. Every pass has to be picturesque.
No concept of garbage goals

 

[Jag68Sid87]

What is the point? Shero could get us Gretzky for a bag of puck and DB would place him on the 3rd line and then down to WBS because he won"t grind hard enough. This team is a joke with organizational matters.

Umm, yeah that's why Shero has to go first. Because he won't fire Bylsma.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Some teams don't even want their players blocking shots. I think Detroit is one. And I believe there are a few people who believe players should be penalized for dropping down to block a shot. I know Bob Gainey proposed it when he was GM.

While that seems extreme to me, I am not a big fan of shot-blocking. Put Sid and Geno on the PK (together), watch the D-men play on their toes and play keep away with the puck for a while. That's what I would do.

I still think it's an absolute joke that our two best players don't kill penalties. This isn't a situation where the $4 million offensive guys sit and the $2 million checkers kill penalties on this team. We have two guys making $18 million sitting, while bargain-bin guys like Glass and Adams take center stage. It makes ZERO sense.


Onto another topic, listening to Pierre McGuire on the radio here in Montreal earlier...he said something to the effect of, "the Penguins need to wake up here, or else their General Manager is going to get to work in a hurry."

McGuire and Shero are buds, but in this case I highly doubt he's right about this one. I'd love it to be true, but I think this is simply Shero's way of getting someone to throw a little warning out there to the players, but I don't think we should expect much player movement. Shero capped us out, because he felt THIS was the team to take us to the promised land. I don't think we'll see much movement.

Oh and McGuire again stressed on the air how badly "Berube out-coached Bylsma last night." Not that we didn't already know this.

Yeah I heard that too. Thing is with McGuire, I'm sure RS must have alluded to something along those lines for him to have even mentioned that. Perhaps for the first time in a while, RS is seeing the same things we are.

Funny thing is, a few of us have been seeing this for years, but they've always managed to dominate regular seasons and create a giant smoke show that convinced many people, including management, that guys like Dupuis and his ilk were enough.

But as always happens, they'll rattle off a ton of wins soon, a bunch of guys will get a bunch of points, all we be well again, no significant changes will be made, and we'll be back *****ing and moaning come April or May.

I never said this once even during the dark years: I dislike this team. Not the logo, not the uniform, just this team.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Umm, yeah that's why Shero has to go first. Because he won't fire Bylsma.

I think Shero would fire Bylsma to save himself. Bylsma and Shero bring out the worst in each other, something needs to give. Even with all of his warts, Shero is a better GM than Bylsma is a coach.

 

[Sivek]

This keeps up I'm gonna have to shop a paper bag over the dino's head.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Bylsma isn't going anywhere...just yet.

Shero will make a trade or two first and if the team still doesn't respond (including the coaching staff)...then Bylsma could get canned.

 

[mpp9]

Yeah I heard that too. Thing is with McGuire, I'm sure RS must have alluded to something along those lines for him to have even mentioned that. Perhaps for the first time in a while, RS is seeing the same things we are.

Funny thing is, a few of us have been seeing this for years, but they've always managed to dominate regular seasons and create a giant smoke show that convinced many people, including management, that guys like Dupuis and his ilk were enough.

But as always happens, they'll rattle off a ton of wins soon, a bunch of guys will get a bunch of points, all we be well again, no significant changes will be made, and we'll be back *****ing and moaning come April or May.

I never said this once even during the dark years: I dislike this team. Not the logo, not the uniform, just this team.

Sure would be nice if we could deal a D-man to Anaheim again. So many forwards there that would help us. DSP has looked legit in the last few games i've watched. Obviously KP with his speed and shot. Winnik as well.

Orpik would be my candidate to move to shake the team up and bring back a solid return.

 

[mpp9]

Bylsma isn't going anywhere...just yet.

Shero will make a trade or two first and if the team still doesn't respond (including the coaching staff)...then Bylsma could get canned.

I got no problem with that. With the right personnel and a shakeup, I think we could still make some noise this season.

The roster and DB share equal blame IMO.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah I heard that too. Thing is with McGuire, I'm sure RS must have alluded to something along those lines for him to have even mentioned that. Perhaps for the first time in a while, RS is seeing the same things we are.

Funny thing is, a few of us have been seeing this for years, but they've always managed to dominate regular seasons and create a giant smoke show that convinced many people, including management, that guys like Dupuis and his ilk were enough.

But as always happens, they'll rattle off a ton of wins soon, a bunch of guys will get a bunch of points, all we be well again, no significant changes will be made, and we'll be back *****ing and moaning come April or May.

I never said this once even during the dark years: I dislike this team. Not the logo, not the uniform, just this team.

I think Dupuis is at 13 games now without a goal. Not only is he not being productive, his Novocain Hands have returned. Yet he still remains on the top unit. Never gets demoted. Never misses a regular shift with Crosby.

Which means what most of us fear.... He isn't going anywhere. He honestly can't play any worse than he is now, so it can only get better for him from here on out, because eventually he will hit a streak since Crosby spoon feeds him.

Its crazy that we will look back at Crosby's career and after almost a decade in the league, this org never surrounded him with high end talent on his wings.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I think Dupuis is at 13 games now without a goal. Not only is he not being productive, his Novocain Hands have returned. Yet he still remains on the top unit. Never gets demoted. Never misses a regular shift with Crosby.

Which means what most of us fear.... He isn't going anywhere. He honestly can't play any worse than he is now, so it can only get better for him from here on out, because eventually he will hit a streak since Crosby spoon feeds him.

Its crazy that we will look back at Crosby's career and after almost a decade in the league, this org never surrounded him with high end talent on his wings.

Crosby had an opportunity to have Iginla on his wing last year and Bylsma killed that. A solid post season of Crosby and Iginla together, who knows maybe Shero tries to find a way to keep them together.

Bennett could be playing with Crosby also.

When you have a coach that flat out refuses to change that first line no matter what, including taking Kunitz off of what was the #1 line in the NHL so that he could make KCD, this is more of a coaching issue than anything.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Oh my goodness this is gold.

And highly accurate.

I remember the Pens not being all that bad without Staal as well when he was hurt for a stretch.

Players can be taught to be fairly competent at penalty killing.