Post-Game Talk: Knock knock! Who's there? No one. Pens lose to Flyers.

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KIRK

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Yeah I heard that too. Thing is with McGuire, I'm sure RS must have alluded to something along those lines for him to have even mentioned that. Perhaps for the first time in a while, RS is seeing the same things we are.

Funny thing is, a few of us have been seeing this for years, but they've always managed to dominate regular seasons and create a giant smoke show that convinced many people, including management, that guys like Dupuis and his ilk were enough.

But as always happens, they'll rattle off a ton of wins soon, a bunch of guys will get a bunch of points, all we be well again, no significant changes will be made, and we'll be back *****ing and moaning come April or May.

I never said this once even during the dark years: I dislike this team. Not the logo, not the uniform, just this team.

RS also has been plenty pissed at times before. Blah, blah, blah. You think THIS is the time he'll finally see it, and he doesn't, because some regular season win streak blinds him.

You know, I posted this in another thread. Forget the bench management and tactics and whether he's a player friendly coach or a dictator. What SHOULD Bylsma's job #1 be?

IMO, it's to maximize (or do as much as one reasonably can expect from a coach to maximize) what you get from Sid and Geno?

Ultimately, Therrien was fired because you couldn't say he was doing it with either Sid OR Geno (Sid was 'lost' first, Geno about a month before the trigger was pulled).

Now, it's the reverse. You can't say Bylsma is getting the most out of either of them (couldn't say that about Geno for the longest time).

Bylsma's saving grace is that he's a good guy, not because he's the right coach to maximize the utility of Sid and Geno. That ship has sailed, with an assist to the work Ray Shero has done constructing this team.
 

Speaking Moistly

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I think Dupuis is at 13 games now without a goal. Not only is he not being productive, his Novocain Hands have returned. Yet he still remains on the top unit. Never gets demoted. Never misses a regular shift with Crosby.

Which means what most of us fear.... He isn't going anywhere. He honestly can't play any worse than he is now, so it can only get better for him from here on out, because eventually he will hit a streak since Crosby spoon feeds him.

Its crazy that we will look back at Crosby's career and after almost a decade in the league, this org never surrounded him with high end talent on his wings.

That's optimistic. I won't lie, I want a streak so awful that something has to be done, and then I want to watch Bylsma talk about it.

The crazy thing is that Bylsma won't put a talented winger with Crosby because Dupuis is there. Maybe Crosby will bounce something off of Dupuis and Bylsma will celebrate like they won the cup.

Dupuis hasn't scored since, 15/10/13; 12 games. Almost 15% of the season without a goal and 2 goals in over a fifth of a season.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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That's optimistic. I won't lie, I want a streak so awful that something has to be done, and then I want to watch Bylsma talk about it.

The crazy thing is that Bylsma won't put a talented winger with Crosby because Dupuis is there. Maybe Crosby will bounce something off of Dupuis and Bylsma will celebrate like they won the cup.

Dupuis hasn't scored since, 15/10/13; 12 games. Almost 15% of the season without a goal and 2 goals in over a fifth of a season.

A dozen games without a goal for Dupuis and the Pens have I think 3 goals in the last three games, yet again, he remains.

The thing is, most of us want change on that line, but DB will always find excuses to get them back together. It does feel kind of hopeless though, I admit that. Just have to keep hoping I guess. All we can do.
 

mpp9

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A dozen games without a goal for Dupuis and the Pens have I think 3 goals in the last three games, yet again, he remains.

The thing is, most of us want change on that line, but DB will always find excuses to get them back together. It does feel kind of hopeless though, I admit that. Just have to keep hoping I guess. All we can do.

I tweeted a couple questions to Yohe earlier. Granted he's not the best beat writer out there. But he's saying Sid is the one who wants to be out there against the tough matchups and Dupuis to flank him.

So basically, DB's too much of a ***** to change things and do what's best for the team.
 

Speaking Moistly

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A dozen games without a goal for Dupuis and the Pens have I think 3 goals in the last three games, yet again, he remains.

The thing is, most of us want change on that line, but DB will always find excuses to get them back together. It does feel kind of hopeless though, I admit that. Just have to keep hoping I guess. All we can do.

Yeah, 3 goals in the last 3 games, all PP goals ironically.

I don't think he even finds excuses, it's just the best line in hockey and they'll grind this slump down. Dupuis is also averaging more TOI than he ever has before.
 

Til the End of Time

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i love sid but he needs to go fist himself. and the coach needs to step in here and do whats best for the team, and not be afraid to offend his star.

sid is too biased to see this, but any move getting dupuis off his wing will increase his chances at an art ross.

maybe dupuis' knee will explode and all this talk will become moot.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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I tweeted a couple questions to Yohe earlier. Granted he's not the best beat writer out there. But he's saying Sid is the one who wants to be out there against the tough matchups and Dupuis to flank him.

So basically, DB's too much of a ***** to change things and do what's best for the team.

Like I said before, Crosby was best friends with Armstrong and didn't want him traded, but he got over it.

He's friends with Dupuis, I get that Crosby doesn't want to come out and say he wants Dupuis off his line. That would be... awkward. Crosby is so used to having coal miners to drag around, that he doesn't seem to know any better anymore.

Again, it's up to DB to put Crosby in the best position to succeed. You and I both agree this team will never win another cup as long as Dupuis is flanking Crosby.

And as we all know, Crosby likes to win.... Cups especially. So he will get over not having Dupuis if he gets a legit winger who can um... Pass... Shot... Stick handle.... Uh, beat guys 1-1... And other whacked-ill ****.
 

MrBurghundy

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Like I said before, Crosby was best friends with Armstrong and didn't want him traded, but he got over it.

He's friends with Dupuis, I get that Crosby doesn't want to come out and say he wants Dupuis off his line. That would be... awkward. Crosby is so used to having coal miners to drag around, that he doesn't seem to know any better anymore.

Again, it's up to DB to put Crosby in the best position to succeed. You and I both agree this team will never win another cup as long as Dupuis is flanking Crosby.

And as we all know, Crosby likes to win.... Cups especially. So he will get over not having Dupuis if he gets a legit winger who can um... Pass... Shot... Stick handle.... Uh, beat guys 1-1... And other whacked-ill ****.

Basically Crosby has Stockholm syndrome.

...along with some posters here.
 

mpp9

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Like I said before, Crosby was best friends with Armstrong and didn't want him traded, but he got over it.

He's friends with Dupuis, I get that Crosby doesn't want to come out and say he wants Dupuis off his line. That would be... awkward. Crosby is so used to having coal miners to drag around, that he doesn't seem to know any better anymore.

Again, it's up to DB to put Crosby in the best position to succeed. You and I both agree this team will never win another cup as long as Dupuis is flanking Crosby.

And as we all know, Crosby likes to win.... Cups especially. So he will get over not having Dupuis if he gets a legit winger who can um... Pass... Shot... Stick handle.... Uh, beat guys 1-1... And other whacked-ill ****.

I just worry about the communication between DB and Shero in terms of a trade acquisition. And then doing what's right and breaking Sid's line up. Iggy wasn't a gamebreaker anymore, but it's not like we're going to acquire someone who's that much better than him where it'd be a slam dunk DB would move Dupuis away from Sid. Judging from last season at least.
 

MtlPenFan

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I think Dupuis is at 13 games now without a goal. Not only is he not being productive, his Novocain Hands have returned. Yet he still remains on the top unit. Never gets demoted. Never misses a regular shift with Crosby.

Which means what most of us fear.... He isn't going anywhere. He honestly can't play any worse than he is now, so it can only get better for him from here on out, because eventually he will hit a streak since Crosby spoon feeds him.

Its crazy that we will look back at Crosby's career and after almost a decade in the league, this org never surrounded him with high end talent on his wings.


My problem with Duper was never his production. That's why I've stopped having these discussions with people about him, and players like him, because they go nowhere. To his credit, he's a tireless worker and he's an excellent skater, and that's why he scores his goals. He was scoring goals while Crosby was out periodically these past few years, so it's not ALL on Sid.

My problem with him was I'd see 20 or 25 goals, and think to myself that if we had a prope 1st line winger playing with Sid, it would be 35 goals, or even 40. I'd also think to myself how many more goals Sid would be getting if he had a competent playmaker with him. And it also goes without saying how much better our transition through the neutral zone would be if we didn't have a guy who constantly flubs passes, and how much more effective our in zone time would be (even when not scoring goals) if we had at least ONE more guy who can look off a defender with a subtle move along the boards and make a nice little 5 foot pass through his feet.

I posted a highlight of a Blake Wheeler flip pass on a 3 on 2 the other night that resulted in a goal. It was a nice, lateral pass right on the blade for a wide open net, where Dupuis would have dished it off to Sid and then went "CENTER DRIVE!!!", as if that's some lost art.

Then I asked myself, and I'll ask all of you: When was the last time Sidney Crosby scored on a pass from Dupuis where we all said "What a great setup by Duper!!!"

Never.

The scariest thing about your bolded statement is the organization may actually think they have, patting themselves on the back for getting "home town discounts".



RS also has been plenty pissed at times before. Blah, blah, blah. You think THIS is the time he'll finally see it, and he doesn't, because some regular season win streak blinds him.

You know, I posted this in another thread. Forget the bench management and tactics and whether he's a player friendly coach or a dictator. What SHOULD Bylsma's job #1 be?

IMO, it's to maximize (or do as much as one reasonably can expect from a coach to maximize) what you get from Sid and Geno?

Ultimately, Therrien was fired because you couldn't say he was doing it with either Sid OR Geno (Sid was 'lost' first, Geno about a month before the trigger was pulled).

Now, it's the reverse. You can't say Bylsma is getting the most out of either of them (couldn't say that about Geno for the longest time).

Bylsma's saving grace is that he's a good guy, not because he's the right coach to maximize the utility of Sid and Geno. That ship has sailed, with an assist to the work Ray Shero has done constructing this team.

The difference this time is that it's happening near the start of a season and by the looks of it, will only continue. I'm also sure he's not liking the fact that Malkin's salary is about to go UP, and he hasn't scored a goal in 10 games. I'm also sure even Shero realizes how embarrassingly bad the bottom 6 is.



Sure would be nice if we could deal a D-man to Anaheim again. So many forwards there that would help us. DSP has looked legit in the last few games i've watched. Obviously KP with his speed and shot. Winnik as well.

Orpik would be my candidate to move to shake the team up and bring back a solid return.

I try to watch all the west coast games because I love me some hockey and try to get my fix wherever I can. I called DSP back in September when people were spitballing trade proposals. That kid's a wrecking ball with some pretty good skill to boot.
 

Speaking Moistly

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Basically Crosby has Stockholm syndrome.

...along with some posters here.

Bylsma is a great coach, Fleury just had bad luck in the playoffs, Dupuis is a top 6 winger, best line in hockey, useless youth, Gladams i---- what? :skeptic:

I just worry about the communication between DB and Shero in terms of a trade acquisition.

Shero has to have learned from last season...
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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My problem with Duper was never his production. That's why I've stopped having these discussions with people about him, and players like him, because they go nowhere. To his credit, he's a tireless worker and he's an excellent skater, and that's why he scores his goals. He was scoring goals while Crosby was out periodically these past few years, so it's not ALL on Sid.

My problem with him was I'd see 20 or 25 goals, and think to myself that if we had a prope 1st line winger playing with Sid, it would be 35 goals, or even 40. I'd also think to myself how many more goals Sid would be getting if he had a competent playmaker with him. And it also goes without saying how much better our transition through the neutral zone would be if we didn't have a guy who constantly flubs passes, and how much more effective our in zone time would be (even when not scoring goals) if we had at least ONE more guy who can look off a defender with a subtle move along the boards and make a nice little 5 foot pass through his feet.

I posted a highlight of a Blake Wheeler flip pass on a 3 on 2 the other night that resulted in a goal. It was a nice, lateral pass right on the blade for a wide open net, where Dupuis would have dished it off to Sid and then went "CENTER DRIVE!!!", as if that's some lost art.

Then I asked myself, and I'll ask all of you: When was the last time Sidney Crosby scored on a pass from Dupuis where we all said "What a great setup by Duper!!!"

Never.

The scariest thing about your bolded statement is the organization may actually think they have, patting themselves on the back for getting "home town discounts".

I've said over and over production isn't a reason for keeping Dupuis with Crosby as well, because he simply lacks the hockey sense, creativity and elite anticipation necessary to make Crosby better.

But where do you draw the line? How badly does he have to play before he loses his spot next to Crosby? I can't believe we have been talking about getting Crosby legit wingers since his rookie year and it's still a problem. It's mind numbing.

Ya I know... Stats... Points... Best regular season line in hockey...

Dupuis will catch on fire soon and the nightmare will continue. It's bound to happen, because Crosby is too good to let his anchor drag him down all season.

The biggest crime in this aside from Crosby never having legit support on his wings, is Duper could be one of the best third liners in the league... If he was, you know... On the third line.
 

Sidney the Kidney

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Yeah I heard that too. Thing is with McGuire, I'm sure RS must have alluded to something along those lines for him to have even mentioned that. Perhaps for the first time in a while, RS is seeing the same things we are.

Funny thing is, a few of us have been seeing this for years, but they've always managed to dominate regular seasons and create a giant smoke show that convinced many people, including management, that guys like Dupuis and his ilk were enough.

But as always happens, they'll rattle off a ton of wins soon, a bunch of guys will get a bunch of points, all we be well again, no significant changes will be made, and we'll be back *****ing and moaning come April or May.

I never said this once even during the dark years: I dislike this team. Not the logo, not the uniform, just this team.

This is *exactly* what will happen. Particularly, Sid and Geno are just too talented to stay in a scoring slump all the time. So it wouldn't surprise me in the least if in the coming handful of games, Sid and/or Geno go on a tear, their linemates benefit just by proxy, and the team rattles off a 4 or 5 game winning streak, just so everything can go back to "Pens are a great roster, see?" in Penguins land.

And therein lies the problem. All this team needs to reaffirm its belief it's an elite roster is for Sid or Geno to play like elite players for a 10-game stretch to wipe away the stink of the rest of the roster.
 

WayneSid9987

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If Sid likes to play with Dupuis so much, as a coach, i'd stick him on real PK duty beside Dupes. Go ahead and score all the SH'ed goals you want, but you ain't playing with him 5on5. Not in my lineup.
 

Jag68Sid87

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When Ray Shero realized Ryan Whitney was not going to be worth his newly-signed contract, he acted fairly quickly and dealt him away. THAT Ray Shero needs to return now. Wait for Dupuis to score some points the next time Sid gets red-hot, and then shop him. This is what a good GM would do in this situation: admit error and correct it.

I don't think I'm buying this whole notion that Sid ONLY wants to play with Dupuis and be the shutdown line, etc. EVEN if that were true, when Shero acquired Iginla we could have easily moved Dupuis to LW and placed Iginla on the top line, which would have reunited Kunitz-Malkin-Neal and still kept the top unit as a shutdown line, per se. Granted, Iggy looked lost with us, pretty much from the get-go. Still, I wonder if he started out with Sid and is just left there if things wouldn't have been different.

Anyways, in terms of albatross contracts, I don't think we're there yet with regards to Kris Letang or Chris Kunitz. They'll still be productive, even if their game continues to slip. And Fleury, as much as I despise him and can never trust him again, has at least done well to keep his value fairly high.

But that Pascal Dupuis contract is dangerous. If we play it out, we'll be stuck with a pretty bad one.
 

Coastal Kev

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When Ray Shero realized Ryan Whitney was not going to be worth his newly-signed contract, he acted fairly quickly and dealt him away. THAT Ray Shero needs to return now. Wait for Dupuis to score some points the next time Sid gets red-hot, and then shop him. This is what a good GM would do in this situation: admit error and correct it.

I don't think I'm buying this whole notion that Sid ONLY wants to play with Dupuis and be the shutdown line, etc. EVEN if that were true, when Shero acquired Iginla we could have easily moved Dupuis to LW and placed Iginla on the top line, which would have reunited Kunitz-Malkin-Neal and still kept the top unit as a shutdown line, per se. Granted, Iggy looked lost with us, pretty much from the get-go. Still, I wonder if he started out with Sid and is just left there if things wouldn't have been different.

Anyways, in terms of albatross contracts, I don't think we're there yet with regards to Kris Letang or Chris Kunitz. They'll still be productive, even if their game continues to slip. And Fleury, as much as I despise him and can never trust him again, has at least done well to keep his value fairly high.

But that Pascal Dupuis contract is dangerous. If we play it out, we'll be stuck with a pretty bad one.

Nice theory except for the fact that Ryan Whitney hadn't even reached his prime when he was dealt. How easy it to trade an overpaid, late 30's player with multiple years left on his contract? As I stated when Shero signed Dupuis, last year was as good as it gets with Duper and it's all down hill from here. Shero is paying Dupuis more as his hockey ability will be declining. What does this mean for the Pens moving forward?? Just take a look across town at the Steelers who put themselves in the same position with overpaid underperforming veterens. Signing Scuds, Kunitz, Adams and Dupuis has not only hamstrung this team this year, but also for the foreseeable future. And unlike football, all of the contracts are guaranteed.
 

Jag68Sid87

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Nice theory except for the fact that Ryan Whitney hadn't even reached his prime when he was dealt. How easy it to trade an overpaid, late 30's player with multiple years left on his contract? As I stated when Shero signed Dupuis, last year was as good as it gets with Duper and it's all down hill from here. Shero is paying Dupuis more as his hockey ability will be declining. What does this mean for the Pens moving forward?? Just take a look across town at the Steelers who put themselves in the same position with overpaid underperforming veterens. Signing Scuds, Kunitz, Adams and Dupuis has not only hamstrung this team this year, but also for the foreseeable future. And unlike football, all of the contracts are guaranteed.

You're right, but when Dupuis starts scoring again (he's anchored next to Crosby, it's an inevitability), he can be moved. But we need to move fast on him before he really hits rock-bottom. Then it'll be too late.

Also, the Scuderi signing didn't hurt us at all. He was/is badly needed to bring much-needed stability and structure to this team. The other three, I agree wholeheartedly.
 

The Tang

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Signing Scuds, Kunitz, Adams and Dupuis has not only hamstrung this team this year, but also for the foreseeable future.

I disagree with Adams because he is cheap but fully agree on Scuderi, Kunitz and Dupuis. All signed until they're 38, and at 34 they're all going to be going into decline. About $11mm cap tied in fading talent is not good. I still can't fathom why Scuderi was signed; highly overrated and his signing has caused Despres (who other than defensive play easily outclasses Scuderi) to rot in the minors. It also means Orpik is gone and while that may not be a huge loss, he's still better than Scuderi. This team needed to have it's bottom lines revamped, instead money was spent on retaining and re-signing members of the 2009 cup team because the GM is desperately clinging to that victory.
 
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