value traded for 1st pick Rowe set the new bench mark because it was much different than what was traded for Lalonde, Rippon, Nizhnikov, Stratis?
Kitchener Rangers 2018-19 Season Thread
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value traded for 1st pick Rowe set the new bench mark because it was much different than what was traded for Lalonde, Rippon, Nizhnikov, Stratis?
EvenSteven
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I don't agree. The return for an OHL 1st rounder will depend on the particular player along with his age.
Just because Rowe and Tortora went for the same return (if conditions are met), doesn't mean a team can expect to get someone's first rounder for the same price if that player is of better quality.
On a sidenote, I would be wary of dealing for any first rounder that the London Knights are looking to move. Especially if said first rounder is unproven. They have traded unproven first rounders here and there over the years long before the end of their junior eligibility. Not too often they amounted to anything.
If a London first round is worth anything, the Hunters find a way not to trade them - even in a year where they are going all in. They find a way around dealing a first rounder unless he is a dud. Rowe may amount to something, but I'm betting the Hunters know by now the type of player he is and will become. There's a reason why they moved him.
Just because Rowe and Tortora went for the same return (if conditions are met), doesn't mean a team can expect to get someone's first rounder for the same price if that player is of better quality.
On a sidenote, I would be wary of dealing for any first rounder that the London Knights are looking to move. Especially if said first rounder is unproven. They have traded unproven first rounders here and there over the years long before the end of their junior eligibility. Not too often they amounted to anything.
If a London first round is worth anything, the Hunters find a way not to trade them - even in a year where they are going all in. They find a way around dealing a first rounder unless he is a dud. Rowe may amount to something, but I'm betting the Hunters know by now the type of player he is and will become. There's a reason why they moved him.
K2
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Rippon was a 2nd rounder (36th) and his initial 're-sale' was 2 x 2nds & a conditional 5th when Kitchener dealt him then his value came a bit more convoluted in a 3 for 1 player + picks trade to Ottawa where he was dealt for something between a 2nd, 3rd or simply a 'throw-in' that included his parents
Rippon was a 2nd rounder (36th) and his initial 're-sale' was 2 x 2nds & a conditional 5th when Kitchener dealt him then his value came a bit more convoluted in a 3 for 1 player + picks trade to Ottawa where he was dealt for something between a 2nd, 3rd or simply a 'throw-in' that included his parents
Seems home is a good place for Rippon
EvenSteven
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Since we're rebuilding (I know. Broken record player), we should be moving anyone that won't be back next year.
I'm beginning to feel that Yantsis will not play an OA season in this league. On pace to score 50+ goals, with no sign of slowing down, I'm betting there will be an NHL team who will use a late round pick to draft him and he plays in the AHL next year. Why do I feel this way?
Yantsis has come a long way from the wobbly, slow rookie that he was when he signed here a couple of years ago. Despite his size, his skating is above average. He gets around pretty good for a big man. He gets to where he needs to be just about every time. He has incredible hands around the net. He's great at tipping pucks and is virtually immovable in front of the net. And he throws his weight around pretty good too.
I don't think there's a chance in hell of him slipping through the next draft. He's a big guy who can skate and score. No, he doesn't have a mean streak, yet, but I'm wondering, even though hockey is moving away from big physical players, if there isn't room for a big man who can score at the next level.
Watching Hockey Central last week, Nick Kypreos was going on about Tom Wilson and the impact of his debut with the Caps from suspension. He said there are 30 GM's around the league telling their scouting staffs to "get out there and find me the next Tom Wilson."
Can a late blooming Jonathan Yantsis be developed into a Tom Wilson type player? Maybe.
With all this in mind. I'm thinking MM had better be entertaining offers for Yantsis nearing the deadline. I wonder what a 19 year old big body scorer, on pace for 50+ goals, would bring in trade at the deadline?
I'm beginning to feel that Yantsis will not play an OA season in this league. On pace to score 50+ goals, with no sign of slowing down, I'm betting there will be an NHL team who will use a late round pick to draft him and he plays in the AHL next year. Why do I feel this way?
Yantsis has come a long way from the wobbly, slow rookie that he was when he signed here a couple of years ago. Despite his size, his skating is above average. He gets around pretty good for a big man. He gets to where he needs to be just about every time. He has incredible hands around the net. He's great at tipping pucks and is virtually immovable in front of the net. And he throws his weight around pretty good too.
I don't think there's a chance in hell of him slipping through the next draft. He's a big guy who can skate and score. No, he doesn't have a mean streak, yet, but I'm wondering, even though hockey is moving away from big physical players, if there isn't room for a big man who can score at the next level.
Watching Hockey Central last week, Nick Kypreos was going on about Tom Wilson and the impact of his debut with the Caps from suspension. He said there are 30 GM's around the league telling their scouting staffs to "get out there and find me the next Tom Wilson."
Can a late blooming Jonathan Yantsis be developed into a Tom Wilson type player? Maybe.
With all this in mind. I'm thinking MM had better be entertaining offers for Yantsis nearing the deadline. I wonder what a 19 year old big body scorer, on pace for 50+ goals, would bring in trade at the deadline?
Another great trade by MM. Tortora would not help us this year.
We get our 2021 and 2022 2nd rounders back. We get conditional 2nd rounders on 2023 and 2024 and a conditional 3rd in 2020
We now have a solid collection of 2nd and 3rd round picks right through to 2025.
We get our 2021 and 2022 2nd rounders back. We get conditional 2nd rounders on 2023 and 2024 and a conditional 3rd in 2020
We now have a solid collection of 2nd and 3rd round picks right through to 2025.
Tim Wallach
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I'm with you on the point of acquiring assets while we can. I really don't see a Tom Wilson in Yantsis at all though. Aside from size, they are quite different players. There is very little edge to Yantsis's game. He is almost the exact opposite end of the spectrum in terms of personality and approach to physicality. And that is nearly impossible to change. Also, Yantsis has come a long way in skating but Wilson is still a MUCH better skater. Several tiers ahead of JY.
Having said that, even if he keeps up a good pace this year and realistically hits 35 goals, at his size, there are pro teams that will give him a look as a long term project next year, so best to capitalize on that.
My OAs would be Meireles. McHugh and if not Yantsis, then maybe seek a D. I'd be moving Joey G this year and would not bring back Richie as an OA.
Rangers True Blue
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And on reviewing that breakaway goal by Yantsis, his skating might just be coming along too. And not just a late bloomer. He's finally getting an opportunity to play more and he's making the most of it. Let's get our rookies up there now so they have more development time before next season.
Fantastic Deal "Winner, Winner, give that man a Chicken Dinner." Now that's called managing assets!
Rangers True Blue
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Agreed on the OAs. It all depend on who approaches MM and what they offer...although as per Brown's article this morning, MM does step back and look at the future rather than the here and now.
Tim Wallach
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Essentially he got a 2nd a 3rd and possibly another 2nd for nothing. More GMs should try that... "Hey, we'll hold your player's rights for a couple years and then sell them back to you at an inflated price." How does that work?
Coaches Coroner
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The initial Tortora trade was actually a Murray Hiebert deal, so I guess partial credit to him...although I'd say that never in a million years would he (or anyone) have anticipated it playing out like this lol.
Agreed it was one of those “fell into our lap” type deals but with all the accolades Mark Hunter gets I’m not sure he even pulls this one off! LOL..... you all need a break or two and this was a good one.
EvenSteven
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Truth be told, there was much griping on here that Hiebert doing the deal he did was a mistake.
As far as Mark Hunter goes, I doubt he ties up the multiple 2nd rounders for the length of time Hiebert did in his Tortora deal. Mark is too busy doing real deals for defective players like Domi and Mete.
Gimme one of those deals over the Tortora deal thank you very much.
As far as Mark Hunter goes, I doubt he ties up the multiple 2nd rounders for the length of time Hiebert did in his Tortora deal. Mark is too busy doing real deals for defective players like Domi and Mete.
Gimme one of those deals over the Tortora deal thank you very much.
rangersblues
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Personally I think something stinks in Denmark with this deal. How does Barrie get a compensatory 1st rounder for trading a defective 1st round pick then get to trade back for him later? Not saying it was prearranged (I certainly hope it wasn't) but I don't think it's what that rule was made for. Too many teams finding loopholes only ruins the credibility of the league. The net effect is Kitchener and Barrie split the difference on a 1st round pick that should not have been given out. If London did this we'd be crying murder.
Ward Cornell
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One forgetten deal that MM made with Barrie and equally savy is the Anthony Dumont-Bouchard deal.
There's dozens of players that scored at major-junior that didn't score at the next level, let alone the NHL, lolololo. Credit to Yantsis I am sure he worked hard, but the game is all about speed not size at the NHL level and I really don't see that happening. John McFarland scored a lot, HO-Sang scored a lot, Mescarian, scored a lot, but their not NHL players.
I agree if we are going for it next year though I have the feeling that we're not. Trading Little Joe this year would give us the best return value. And if we can pump up Richie's numbers by having him play HALF the games, we could get a fair return for him. I would be quite confident in moving on with Pfiel at this point.
K2
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We should have tried this as a 'wait and see' with Meireles
This doesn't seem like a stinker to me given JT did go on to USDP/HL, Boston College, etc and only now reporting to Barrie 3 yrs later at notable cost & only having achieved a (apparent) lackluster level of development. Barrie's compensatory pick, Jack McBain, also never reported to Barrie and went uncompensated (...if memory serves) but instead played OJHL, then at Boston College and still ends up a NHL 3rd rounder (MIN). Maybe Tortora proves to be an OHL stud and McBain drops out of BC and reports to Barrie tomorrow too but so far Barrie's benefit in the whole 'scheme' seems pretty negligible to have been at all unfairly advantageous IMO.
Still, I think the compensatory pick 'benefit' should be diminished (at least) to #21+ or eliminated outright.
rangersblues
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Richardson 's value is what it is - a mid round pick at best. To me it's much more important to see if Pfiel can play at this point than marginally increasing Richardson 's value.
With the amount they just got for 2 players we have to consider trading anyone OA and 19 yr old for as much as we can. I don’t think we have the guns next year to make a serious push so imo you should trade the 19 yr to maximum your return.
EvenSteven
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No disrespect, we don't have anybody on our roster who is graduating that comes close to the package that Kingston sent to Niagara in that deal.
EvenSteven
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If you have speed AND size, and can score, you can play in the NHL. Whether or not Yantsis is able to make the grade at the highest level remains to be seen.
The issue with McFarland and Ho-Sang was between the ears. As far as Mascherin goes (if that's who you mean), he's barely out of junior hockey. Way too early to close the book on him yet.
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