Confirmed with Link: Kirill Tyutyayev coming to NA next season, signs with GR

[Bench]

Ericsson was a decent skater for his size before the hip issue, and could actually move the puck because he was a center. He wasn't drafted just because he was big, he played a game at D, and Hakan was there scouting someone else and liked what he saw. Big, mobile defenseman that can move the puck is certainly worth the last pick in the draft.

Read what you just typed. A big, mobile, puck moving defender was the last pick in the draft? Although he was actually a center at that point.

This is all major hindsight. Hakan saw a diamond, yes, he knew all that. But that's not what the scouting report on him was for the rest of the world. It's not what we'd be reading about during our conversations on the internet. You can't even find articles from 2002 talking about his draft profile at the time because I'm not sure they even exist.

Here's the earliest quote I can find and it's not even dated and Ericsson is already in NA at this point:

A large and strong defenceman. Good reach and strength, has a heavy shot. Gives a quick opening pass. Has improved physically during his time in North America. (Matias Strozyk)

Mostly about his size aside from quick opening pass. Nothing about skating.

That's the point. Guys like Ericsson aren't the tantalizing, Eastern Europeans with some slick stick handling that people are clamoring for taking a flier on.

Ericsson was brought up as an example of why the 7th round is still worth something and my argument is that people would be frustrated drafting a big, lower offensive skill guy like Ericsson rather than aiming for aforementioned Eastern European forward. For some reason it's always one of those guys people get hot for.

 

[Bench]

And to think, at one time the draft was 17 rounds long. Talk about a waste of time.

But that's where you find gems like Taro Tsujimoto.

 

[simonedvinsson]

You can't even find articles from 2002 talking about his draft profile at the time because I'm not sure they even exist.

Not to derail the thread, but you can if you know where to look. This is from redwingscentral.com (November 27, 2002):

HISTORY
Hockey talent runs in the Ericsson family, as Jonathan's father, Sven, was a skilled forward who tallied 337 points in 278 games during his career in Sweden's first division. Jonathan was born in Karlskrona, where Sven played from 1981 to 1984. His brother, Jimmie, also plays hockey in Sweden.

Ericsson spent the 2001-2002 season at the J-20 level with Hasten, a team that was not good enough to compete at the J-20 SuperElit level. After skating as a center for most of his life, Ericsson was put on the blue line during a January game against Linkoping. Detroit's chief European scout, Hakan Andersson, attended the game with the intention of evaluating a Linkoping prospect. However, Ericsson stole the show at his new position, catching the eye of Andersson and making a huge impression.

From that day forward, Ericsson was certain the Wings would select him in the 2002 draft, and stopped playing center altogether to adjust permanently to the defense position. Although he did not play on Sweden's Under-18 team, the roster was selected earlier in the season -- just before Ericsson hit a growth spurt.

Although Andersson was one of the only scouts to evaluate Ericsson's play -- and scouting services did not even know his name -- the Wings selected the young prospect with the last pick of the draft (291st overall).

STRENGTHS
Because Ericsson is a natural center, he has good finesse skills and terrific hands for a big man. For a young player who is still adjusting to his size after an impressive growth spurt, Ericsson has surprising mobility. The 6-foot-4, 189-pound defender has a huge frame, and he is still growing. Ericsson is a quick and willing learner, as his smooth transition from center to the blue line indicates. He is also a character individual who contributes to the community as a camp leader at local hockey schools.

WEAKNESSES
Ericsson is an extremely raw and unpolished prospect. He has never competed at a high level and never been heavily scouted, even by the Wings. Because he has only recently converted to the defensive position, he needs to continue learning the game. Despite his big frame, Ericsson remains a bit weak -- even for Sweden's senior leagues -- and he needs to continue working hard to bulk up.

PROJECTION
The ultimate sleeper pick with the last selection of the draft, Ericsson is a late-blooming prospect who hit a growth spurt during his draft year and has not looked back since. A real dark horse, Ericsson remains an NHL long shot, and many challenges lie ahead. His first goal is to establish himself in Sweden's first division next season.

edit: forgot to mention Kirill Tyutyayev.​

 

[Bench]

Not to derail the thread, but you can if you know where to look. This is from redwingscenter.com (November 27, 2002):

Thank you, that's super interesting! I didn't think to search the archived sites, good call.

This was written by Matthew Wuest? How did he get this info about Ericsson at the time?

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

I'm not going to touch the Draper issue because that's been beaten to death and zombified then beaten to death all over again at this point. We're far from the only team who occasionally tosses away a late draft selection, look at the Taylor Makar pick in Colorado.

But I do think we should cut the draft back again. I think five rounds would be plenty, and I think you could go as low as three without much issue. Frankly I think we should eliminate the draft entirely, but that's sort of a different issue.

 

[Bench]

Frankly I think we should eliminate the draft entirely, but that's sort of a different issue.

When you really think about it, I mean really, it is kinda weird adults can't pick which employer they want to join until their mid-20s.

 

[simonedvinsson]

Thank you, that's super interesting! I didn't think to search the archived sites, good call.

This was written by Matthew Wuest? How did he get this info about Ericsson at the time?

Matthew Wuest had connections within the organization, posted regular write-ups on Red Wings prospects (often pulling quotes out of Jim Nill, Hakan Andersson, et al.), and was the go-to guy for news on our European players back in the day.

It's kind of fun to pull up some of those old profiles on guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg and soak up the nostalgia. I can't tell you how stoked I was as a kid waiting for those guys to come over while reading "Datsyuk possesses top line talent" and "[Zetterberg] is a potential top line player in the NHL".

edit: forgot to mention Kirill Tyutyayev.​

 

[Bench]

Matthew Wuest had connections within the organization, posted regular write-ups on Red Wings prospects (often pulling quotes out of Jim Nill, Hakan Andersson, et al.), and was the go-to guy for news on our European players back in the day.

It's kind of fun to pull up some of those old profiles on guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg and soak up the nostalgia. I can't tell you how stoked I was as a kid waiting for those guys to come over while reading "Datsyuk possesses top line talent" and "[Zetterberg] is a potential top line player in the NHL".

We were certainly blessed to have Wuest for the years we did. His absence is felt. I wasn't aware how deep his connections went, but it explains those scouting profiles that had information you'd only find from the Red Wings brass.

 

[Gniwder]

That's the point. Guys like Ericsson aren't the tantalizing, Eastern Europeans with some slick stick handling that people are clamoring for taking a flier on.

I don't think that's the point, I think people are clamoring for late round prospects with high potential (top 2 forward lines or top 2 d pair) instead of plugs that have the ceiling of 4th line PKer or bottom pair D. Prospects with high ceiling hat dropped in the draft because of a deficiency (which typically is size in many cases). While many of them are European, small wingers, I don't think any of those are hard criteria. Gogolev played in the OHL and he's almost average NHL size (same size as Flip).

For example, you don't see any complaints about the Cotton pick (2020 5th) whereas everyone regards the Aucoin pick (2020 6th) as a wasted pick.

 

[MBH]

Draper was drafted at #187 in Round 7.

At that point, every single available player in the world had already been passed over 186 times. By every NHL team.

Is it possible to still get a gem then? Sure. It's also possible to get an undrafted overager that turns into Brian Rafalski. It can happen but you're not planning for it. Throwing away that pick for a relationship, or for shits and giggles, or for whatever reason, is REALLY not a big deal. Chances are whatever guy you wanted then, we could just pick the next year after every team passes over him again.

I wanted Rashevsky, who I viewed as an early second round talent.
Nobody picked him.
Winnipeg picked him this year.
And now they have a fine Russian prospect.

We all can't get what we want. But I'd at least like to see them try.
And I'll be honest now. I'm skeptical of Draper-related picks.
Whether it's Draper, Mazur or some other friend of the family.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

When you really think about it, I mean really, it is kinda weird adults can't pick which employer they want to join until their mid-20s.

Exactly, the labor restriction is my biggest gripe with the entry draft. Folks are generally comfortable with it because of players' high earnings, but I still think it's archaic.

I think the draft initially made sense as a talent-balancing mechanism. But once the hard cap was implemented I think we should've binned the draft. I'd let all draft-eligible players enter the league as unrestricted free agents open to bargain with whichever team can give them the most favorable offer.

I also think that, despite any type of lottery system, an entry draft always provides some incentive for bad teams to lose. Cutting it would better incentivize bad organizations to improve.

 

[Bench]

I don't think that's the point, I think people are clamoring for late round prospects with high potential (top 2 forward lines or top 2 d pair) instead of plugs that have the ceiling of 4th line PKer or bottom pair D.

That's Ericsson. He was projected to be a bottom pairing guy - at best.

And yet he was the exemplar for why late round picks matter. That's the point I'm making. That the example listed is one of the picks people would write off quickly.

 

[evolutionbaby]

Tyutyayev not mentioned once in the 10 posts on page 5.

 

[Bench]

Tyutyayev not mentioned once in the 10 posts on page 5.

He's playing tonight so hopefully we'll have more positive things to say about him soon.

 

[MBH]

Not to derail the thread, but you can if you know where to look. This is from redwingscentral.com (November 27, 2002):

HISTORY
Hockey talent runs in the Ericsson family, as Jonathan's father, Sven, was a skilled forward who tallied 337 points in 278 games during his career in Sweden's first division. Jonathan was born in Karlskrona, where Sven played from 1981 to 1984. His brother, Jimmie, also plays hockey in Sweden.

Ericsson spent the 2001-2002 season at the J-20 level with Hasten, a team that was not good enough to compete at the J-20 SuperElit level. After skating as a center for most of his life, Ericsson was put on the blue line during a January game against Linkoping. Detroit's chief European scout, Hakan Andersson, attended the game with the intention of evaluating a Linkoping prospect. However, Ericsson stole the show at his new position, catching the eye of Andersson and making a huge impression.

From that day forward, Ericsson was certain the Wings would select him in the 2002 draft, and stopped playing center altogether to adjust permanently to the defense position. Although he did not play on Sweden's Under-18 team, the roster was selected earlier in the season -- just before Ericsson hit a growth spurt.

Although Andersson was one of the only scouts to evaluate Ericsson's play -- and scouting services did not even know his name -- the Wings selected the young prospect with the last pick of the draft (291st overall).

STRENGTHS
Because Ericsson is a natural center, he has good finesse skills and terrific hands for a big man. For a young player who is still adjusting to his size after an impressive growth spurt, Ericsson has surprising mobility. The 6-foot-4, 189-pound defender has a huge frame, and he is still growing. Ericsson is a quick and willing learner, as his smooth transition from center to the blue line indicates. He is also a character individual who contributes to the community as a camp leader at local hockey schools.

WEAKNESSES
Ericsson is an extremely raw and unpolished prospect. He has never competed at a high level and never been heavily scouted, even by the Wings. Because he has only recently converted to the defensive position, he needs to continue learning the game. Despite his big frame, Ericsson remains a bit weak -- even for Sweden's senior leagues -- and he needs to continue working hard to bulk up.

PROJECTION
The ultimate sleeper pick with the last selection of the draft, Ericsson is a late-blooming prospect who hit a growth spurt during his draft year and has not looked back since. A real dark horse, Ericsson remains an NHL long shot, and many challenges lie ahead. His first goal is to establish himself in Sweden's first division next season.

edit: forgot to mention Kirill Tyutyayev.​

I love reading old RWC profiles at archive.org.

 

[Zaronji]

Exactly, the labor restriction is my biggest gripe with the entry draft. Folks are generally comfortable with it because of players' high earnings, but I still think it's archaic.

I think the draft initially made sense as a talent-balancing mechanism. But once the hard cap was implemented I think we should've binned the draft. I'd let all draft-eligible players enter the league as unrestricted free agents open to bargain with whichever team can give them the most favorable offer.

I also think that, despite any type of lottery system, an entry draft always provides some incentive for bad teams to lose. Cutting it would better incentivize bad organizations to improve.

I disagree; removing the draft will probably cause teams to be unable to secure high-end talent.

When you really think about it, I mean really, it is kinda weird adults can't pick which employer they want to join until their mid-20s.

I compare things like this to a company like Microsoft. Employees are assigned to a particular team to work on projects after they are employed. In this case, I view the NHL, not the individual team, as the employer (even though the team pays them) with the individual team being similar to the Microsoft team. Once players are in their mid-20s, they gain the ability to move around the company and pick which team they work with.

 

[Gniwder]

That's Ericsson. He was projected to be a bottom pairing guy - at best.

And yet he was the exemplar for why late round picks matter. That's the point I'm making. That the example listed is one of the picks people would write off quickly.

I disagree with that. He was supposed to be at least middle pair, that's how he got that big contract. If it wasn't for his hip injury, he probably would have been. He was given the contract based on his potential, plus he added some grit at the time. The contract was middle pair pay.

I think you're basing judgement on what he turned out to be instead of what he was projected to be when he was playing in GR or early in his Wings career. The hip injury really screwed him, plus he quit fighting which really sucked.

 

[lilidk]

I wanted Rashevsky, who I viewed as an early second round talent.
Nobody picked him.
Winnipeg picked him this year.
And now they have a fine Russian prospect.

We all can't get what we want. But I'd at least like to see them try.
And I'll be honest now. I'm skeptical of Draper-related picks.
Whether it's Draper, Mazur or some other friend of the family.

Didn't Scouche liked him in first round?

 

[MBH]

Didn't Scouche liked him in first round?

Not sure - but they liked him. So did hockeyprospect.

 

[Bench]

I disagree with that. He was supposed to be at least middle pair, that's how he got that big contract. If it wasn't for his hip injury, he probably would have been. He was given the contract based on his potential, plus he added some grit at the time. The contract was middle pair pay.

OK, but I'm talking about in 2002. I feel like we're having a fundamental communication issue here because you're talking about his hip injury and his contract... and that's 10 years after where I'm at in the timeline.

 

[Gniwder]

OK, but I'm talking about in 2002. I feel like we're having a fundamental communication issue here because you're talking about his hip injury and his contract... and that's 10 years after where I'm at in the timeline.

Back in 2002, I don't think anyone knew who he was. Can't judge a prospect with virtually no information, we just trusted Hakan....

Same with this kid, until now.

 

[Bench]

Back in 2002, I don't think anyone knew who he was. Can't judge a prospect with virtually no information, we just trusted Hakan....

Yes, exactly. I'm saying people would be critical of an Ericsson-esque pick today and point to a Russian forward they would have preferred to gamble on. This is relevant because Ericsson was used as an example of why the late picks matter.

To bring this to an Aesopian conclusion, the moral is to exercise patience.

 

[MBH]

Back in 2002, I don't think anyone knew who he was. Can't judge a prospect with virtually no information, we just trusted Hakan....

Same with this kid, until now.

I don't know about you, but I liked the Ericsson pick the first time I read anything on him from Wuest. Granted, I think Wuest had me believing Todd Jackson or Ryan Oulahen would be future PK guys, etc etc.

 

[Gniwder]

I don't know about you, but I liked the Ericsson pick the first time I read anything on him from Wuest. Granted, I think Wuest had me believing Todd Jackson or Ryan Oulahen would be future PK guys, etc etc.

LOL, so true.

 

[MBH]

I like Tyut's game today.
Not out of place at all.