Confirmed with Link: Kirill Tyutyayev coming to NA next season, signs with GR

[Killerjas]

....he hasn't even played a game in a league to earn a HockeyDB page.

No clue what a HockeyDB page is and I dont care since he has a Eliteprospects page

 

[TCNorthstars]

No clue what a HockeyDB page is and I dont care since he has a Eliteprospects page

Bit of a misnomer putting him on something called Eliteprospects, no?

 

[izlez]

No clue what a HockeyDB page is and I dont care since he has a Eliteprospects page

I thought my point would get across by just saying hockeydb page, but I guess not everyone uses the same websites as me...

You know how there was recently the debate on this board if the AHL or the SHL was the 3rd best league in the world? And how a player's production could be projected based on how good that league was (SHL being 3rd vs 4th vs 5th)? Tyutyayev hasn't played a single game in the 3rd or 4th or 5th or 6th or 7th or 8th best league in the world at this point, let alone excelled in any of those leagues.

Maybe we wait a bit before we pat ourselves in the back and saying we knew this guy would make it and this is a shining example of a player to pick in the later rounds?

 

[MBH]

Players like him are why people like me bitch about the Kieran Draper pick. You might as well take a Hail Mary on a pick. Look at how Gogolev, a guy I was screaming for in the 7th round, looks these days. A lot better than guys like Stange, that’s for sure.

Past the 4th round should almost always be players with unique attributes or potential boom/bust picks. Maybe this kid makes it, maybe he doesn’t, but he’s a lot better than most “character guy” picks ever will be.

Hope he has a good year

Or Rashevsky.
Draper over Rashevsky? f*** that.

 

[TheOtherOne]

lol you guys.

"See this is why I wanted to take this guy that will probably never do anything instead of that other guy who will also probably never do anything!"

 

[lilidk]

lol you guys.

"See this is why I wanted to take this guy that will probably never do anything instead of that other guy who will also probably never do anything!"

To bad we got Datsyuk, better get Holland relatives

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

lol you guys.

"See this is why I wanted to take this guy that will probably never do anything instead of that other guy who will also probably never do anything!"

Change that second probably to 99% never even make it to even the AHL and you'll be closer to the point.

Also, the player many of us wanted currently has a better PPG in the AHL (albeit small sample size) than Mantha, Zadina, and Veleno ever did. Pavel Gogolev Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com . If you put Gogolev in our system right now, he has a genuine argument to be our 5th best forward prospect (behind Niederbach). Will he amount to anything? The chances are small, but still immeasurably greater than guys like Draper (whose chance is literally non existent).


Tell me, what's greater, a 5-10% chance or a 0% chance? Now multiply that difference for a decade. Over enough years, you are likely to find a usable NHL player, there's 1-3 every year. And while that isn't the end all, there literally isn't any downside in terms of asset management. It is unrealistic to ever expect another Datsyuk, but players like Palat or even Ericsson come through nearly every year. Give me the Soderbloms, Kivenmakis, and Tuts of the world, even with their flaws, over some grinder who can’t even put up good numbers in juniors.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Change that second probably to 99% never even make it to even the AHL and you'll be closer to the point.

Also, the player many of us wanted currently has a better PPG in the AHL (albeit small sample size) than Mantha, Zadina, and Veleno ever did. Pavel Gogolev Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com . If you put Gogolev in our system right now, he has a genuine argument to be our 5th best forward prospect (behind Niederbach). Will he amount to anything? The chances are small, but still immeasurably greater than guys like Draper (whose chance is literally non existent).


Tell me, what's greater, a 5-10% chance or a 0% chance? Now multiply that difference for a decade. Over enough years, you are likely to find a usable NHL player, there's 1-3 every year. And while that isn't the end all, there literally isn't any downside in terms of asset management. It is unrealistic to ever expect another Datsyuk, but players like Palat or even Ericsson come through nearly every year. Give me the Soderbloms, Kivenmakis, and Tuts of the world, even with their flaws, over some grinder who can’t even put up good numbers in juniors.

Dude if any of these guys have a 5% chance on draft day they're going to be gone by round 3.

What you're actually talking about is you and the scouts disagreeing over which of two long shots has a 0.1% greater chance than the other.

 

[Bench]

It is unrealistic to ever expect another Datsyuk, but players like Palat or even Ericsson come through nearly every year.

But wasn't Ericsson one of those low skill guys that you're suggesting are the issue? I mean he was a forward that converted to D and his scouting report was entirely, "He's big." He's exactly the guy people would be complaining about drafting due to lack of skating prowess, offense, and he wasn't even known for physical play.

And Palat was an Yzerman draft pick.

 

[golffuul]

But wasn't Ericsson one of those low skill guys that you're suggesting are the issue? I mean he was a forward that converted to D and his scouting report was entirely, "He's big." He's exactly the guy people would be complaining about drafting due to lack of skating prowess, offense, and he wasn't even known for physical play.

And Palat was an Yzerman draft pick.

Same with Alex Killorn

 

[Gniwder]

But wasn't Ericsson one of those low skill guys that you're suggesting are the issue? I mean he was a forward that converted to D and his scouting report was entirely, "He's big." He's exactly the guy people would be complaining about drafting due to lack of skating prowess, offense, and he wasn't even known for physical play.

And Palat was an Yzerman draft pick.

Ericsson was a decent skater for his size before the hip issue, and could actually move the puck because he was a center. He wasn't drafted just because he was big, he played a game at D, and Hakan was there scouting someone else and liked what he saw. Big, mobile defenseman that can move the puck is certainly worth the last pick in the draft.

His mobility went to shit with the hip injury, and he resorted to pitchforking the puck out of the zone but what he became post injury is irrelevant to the draft pick decision since there's no way to predict injury aside from previous injury history and BigE was healthy through his junior days.

 

[Gniwder]

I thought my point would get across by just saying hockeydb page, but I guess not everyone uses the same websites as me...

You know how there was recently the debate on this board if the AHL or the SHL was the 3rd best league in the world? And how a player's production could be projected based on how good that league was (SHL being 3rd vs 4th vs 5th)? Tyutyayev hasn't played a single game in the 3rd or 4th or 5th or 6th or 7th or 8th best league in the world at this point, let alone excelled in any of those leagues.

Maybe we wait a bit before we pat ourselves in the back and saying we knew this guy would make it and this is a shining example of a player to pick in the later rounds?

People are making judgements based on what they've seen in the prospect tournament and camp. He certainly projects to be at least an AHL player.

Some people here watch games, not just stats.

 

[izlez]

People are making judgements based on what they've seen in the prospect tournament and camp. He certainly projects to be at least an AHL player.

Some people here watch games*, not just stats.

*Scrimmages and practices.

 

[Gniwder]

*Scrimmages and practices.

Sort of.... prospect tournament and scrimmage game.

Did not mean actual NHL games obviously, but the games in question were broadcast on YouTube. We'll get to see them preseason though.

 

[jaster]

The K. Draper pick was indefensible. It was a relatively minor thing, everyone can agree on that, but this is the NHL. The highest level. There should be no leeway given to wasting resources, even small ones. That's not to say any real consequences should be applied to Draper over it, but the criticism he gets is warranted.

Every time I see someone defend that pick, it's cringey. The only two defenses are.... "Draper was the best player available at that pick," which, lol. Or "that pick doesn't matter because no one makes it to the NHL from that deep in the draft," which is A) false, and B) a weird thing to say when the same people follow the draft to the end, read about 7th round picks, and post about 7th round picks. If you truly believe a player from there is irrelevant, then why are you paying attention to them? Further, why have I not seen anyone advocate for shortening the draft? I mean, if 7th round picks don't matter, obviously there is a lot of time and resources being wasted by the league in spending their time on it. And to think, at one time the draft was 17 rounds long. Talk about a waste of time.

 

[Hen Kolland]

*Scrimmages and practices.

You’re right, you can only make an assessment on a player’s NHL readiness by watching them play in the NHL. Therefore nobody will ever be NHL ready, and we will never see someone in the NHL without confirmation that he is NHL ready. Welcome to a continuous loop where nobody knows whether a player can be advanced because they haven’t demonstrated their readiness at the advanced level.

Insert any pro league in place of NHL

 

[simonedvinsson]

People are making judgements based on what they've seen in the prospect tournament and camp. He certainly projects to be at least an AHL player.

Some people here watch games, not just stats.

I watched a few of his league games last season and have been really high on him ever since. Prospect tournament and camp certainly helped, but some of us take the time to watch guys overseas as well.

 

[lilidk]

It's not just I draft this guy because he's my son or I know him , because he is my neighbor and some other kids been friends with.
I was always thinkIng scouts should go around the world and evaluate prospects, but now in Detroit it's who knows who .

 

[izlez]

You’re right, you can only make an assessment on a player’s NHL readiness by watching them play in the NHL. Therefore nobody will ever be NHL ready, and we will never see someone in the NHL without confirmation that he is NHL ready. Welcome to a continuous loop where nobody knows whether a player can be advanced because they haven’t demonstrated their readiness at the advanced level.

Insert any pro league in place of NHL

Maybe there's some middle ground between this and throwing the guy a parade because he had 4 halfway decent scrimmages?

 

[MBH]

Maybe there's some middle ground between this and throwing the guy a parade because he had 4 halfway decent scrimmages?

I don't think anyone is saying he's a stud.
But that he's got a shot, based on what we've seen.

 

[MBH]

It's not just I draft this guy because he's my son or I know him , because he is my neighbor and some other kids been friends with.
I was always thinkIng scouts should go around the world and evaluate prospects, but now in Detroit it's who knows who .

Dude, in every industry, there's an old boys network. Or old girls network. Whatever.
People go with what they know.

 

[Gniwder]

It's not just I draft this guy because he's my son or I know him , because he is my neighbor and some other kids been friends with.
I was always thinkIng scouts should go around the world and evaluate prospects, but now in Detroit it's who knows who .

There's always been an element of that in hockey since I've been following it, and I'm sure long before that. The Wings are not the only team doing it either. The Caps drafted Bengt Gustaffson's (9 yr NHL career all with the Caps) kid in the first round.

Back in the old days, scouting wasn't quite as easy without the internet and there were more rounds. I'd imagine quite a few players were drafted just on name recognition, or if you're the Sabres you just make up a name, lol.

 

[Gniwder]

Maybe there's some middle ground between this and throwing the guy a parade because he had 4 halfway decent scrimmages?

You're exaggerating everyone's take so you can walk back on what you said.

That's a cheesy way to argue.

 

[lilidk]

Dude, in every industry, there's an old boys network. Or old girls network. Whatever.
People go with what they know.

But it is not how you get very good prospect, Red Wings run like family business

 

[TheOtherOne]

Draper was drafted at #187 in Round 7.

At that point, every single available player in the world had already been passed over 186 times. By every NHL team.

Is it possible to still get a gem then? Sure. It's also possible to get an undrafted overager that turns into Brian Rafalski. It can happen but you're not planning for it. Throwing away that pick for a relationship, or for shits and giggles, or for whatever reason, is REALLY not a big deal. Chances are whatever guy you wanted then, we could just pick the next year after every team passes over him again.