Player Discussion Kirill Kaprizov

[GuerinUp]

I don't like that our "captain" is a snitch.

snitches get

 

[57special]

The top LW's in the game in point production order in 20-21, with their attendant cap hits;

Marchand..... 6.125M
Huberdeau....5.9M
Perron...........4M
Panarin..........11.6M
Guentzel........6M
Debrincat.......6.4M
Landeskog... ..5.5M

Kaprizov

Pacioretty.....7M
E. Kane.........7M
Connor..........7M
Gaudreau......6.75M
Ehlers...........6M

I know not all of these contracts are equal, some being signed years ago, or when the player was under team control, etc, but Kaprizov is under team control and we are in a flat cap world where teams have been losing money at an unprecedented rate. I love Kaprizov, but almost all of the players on this list performed at a high level for years, not 56 games. I don't see where we should be offering him, nor should he be expecting, 8.5M per year. MN got in a mess by giving Parise and Suter enormous contracts, then Spurgeon another, and we want to do it again? Good teams learn how to not overspend on contracts like. Bad teams set records and overspend on player contracts- BUF, TOR, EDM.

At the very least let's see the team win something before they start handing out money like candy.

 

[Bazeek]

The top LW's in the game in point production order in 20-21, with their attendant cap hits;

Marchand..... 6.125M
Huberdeau....5.9M
Perron...........4M
Panarin..........11.6M
Guentzel........6M
Debrincat.......6.4M
Landeskog... ..5.5M

Kaprizov

Pacioretty.....7M
E. Kane.........7M
Connor..........7M
Gaudreau......6.75M
Ehlers...........6M

I know not all of these contracts are equal, some being signed years ago, or when the player was under team control, etc, but Kaprizov is under team control and we are in a flat cap world where teams have been losing money at an unprecedented rate. I love Kaprizov, but almost all of the players on this list performed at a high level for years, not 56 games. I don't see where we should be offering him, nor should he be expecting, 8.5M per year. MN got in a mess by giving Parise and Suter enormous contracts, then Spurgeon another, and we want to do it again? Good teams learn how to not overspend on contracts like. Bad teams set records and overspend on player contracts- BUF, TOR, EDM.

At the very least let's see the team win something before they start handing out money like candy.

I think they already set the ceiling with the 8 years x $8m offer. At this point it probably ends up in the $7m range for 4-5 years, which makes him a UFA right as the cap is prophesied to start rising again.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

The top LW's in the game in point production order in 20-21, with their attendant cap hits;

Marchand..... 6.125M
Huberdeau....5.9M
Perron...........4M
Panarin..........11.6M
Guentzel........6M
Debrincat.......6.4M
Landeskog... ..5.5M

Kaprizov

Pacioretty.....7M
E. Kane.........7M
Connor..........7M
Gaudreau......6.75M
Ehlers...........6M

I know not all of these contracts are equal, some being signed years ago, or when the player was under team control, etc, but Kaprizov is under team control and we are in a flat cap world where teams have been losing money at an unprecedented rate. I love Kaprizov, but almost all of the players on this list performed at a high level for years, not 56 games. I don't see where we should be offering him, nor should he be expecting, 8.5M per year. MN got in a mess by giving Parise and Suter enormous contracts, then Spurgeon another, and we want to do it again? Good teams learn how to not overspend on contracts like. Bad teams set records and overspend on player contracts- BUF, TOR, EDM.

At the very least let's see the team win something before they start handing out money like candy.

It's a weird circumstance that isn't allowing us to see multiple years from him. I agree with not doing the whole 'blank check' thing, and we should definitely recognize the leverage that we do have in this situation, but it's a pretty unprecedented thing that we're having to get through here.

 

[AKL]

I think they already set the ceiling with the 8 years x $8m offer. At this point it probably ends up in the $7m range for 4-5 years, which makes him a UFA right as the cap is prophesied to start rising again.

I'm on board with 7Mx5

That also gives us some flexibility to move him if the rest of our core doesn't progress well between now and then

 

[Bazeek]

I'm on board with 7Mx5

I think it'll be the higher end of the 7 range, but maybe the term keeps it lower. Hard to say.

 

[HotDish]

I think Spurgeon will still be the highest paid player on the team once Kaprizov signs, however I think 5 years will be the length.

 

[AKL]

I think it'll be the higher end of the 7 range, but maybe the term keeps it lower. Hard to say.

I would say, 7.5 for 5 years, if you want more money, it'll be 6 years instead. 1 year per 500k.

 

[57special]

Russo said a weird thing on the radio about Kap and the contract negotiations. Something to the effect that Kap will want to recover all the cash he lost by playing in the KHL rather than the NHL. I am thinking, "How the hell is that MN's problem?". We would would have welcomed him with open arms years ago. He was the one who chose to sign longterm in Russia. Why do we have to pay for his decision?

Looking at the list above, and keeping in mind the general business climate in the NHL, I would hope we sign him 6 years at 7M. That is fair to both parties, and would see him higher paid than some of the very talented players listed above. 5 years would be less than desirable, but if that's what he wants then we do it for 6.5M. I think the 8x8M is extremely fair...I would even say an overpay. I have heard that the NHL might have a flat cap for the next 5 years- we have to start acting like it.

If Kaprizov is resolved to be paid like Panarin, then we just have to shake our heads, sign him for as long as we can at as small a number as we can, and make our piece with the fact that he won't re-sign. Kaprizov is good, but we have seen how teams that sign players for extreme salaries such as Marner, Eichel, Mathews, Kane, Panarin, Doughty, EK tend to do, and with all due respect to Kap, he isn't anywhere near the players those guys are, or were.

 

[Bazeek]

Russo said a weird thing on the radio about Kap and the contract negotiations. Something to the effect that Kap will want to recover all the cash he lost by playing in the KHL rather than the NHL. I am thinking, "How the hell is that MN's problem?". We would would have welcomed him with open arms years ago. He was the one who chose to sign longterm in Russia. Why do we have to pay for his decision?

Looking at the list above, and keeping in mind the general business climate in the NHL, I would hope we sign him 6 years at 7M. That is fair to both parties, and would see him higher paid than some of the very talented players listed above. 5 years would be less than desirable, but if that's what he wants then we do it for 6.5M. I think the 8x8M is extremely fair...I would even say an overpay. I have heard that the NHL might have a flat cap for the next 5 years- we have to start acting like it.

If Kaprizov is resolved to be paid like Panarin, then we just have to shake our heads, sign him for as long as we can at as small a number as we can, and make our piece with the fact that he won't re-sign. Kaprizov is good, but we have seen how teams that sign players for extreme salaries such as Marner, Eichel, Mathews, Kane, Panarin, Doughty, EK tend to do, and with all due respect to Kap, he isn't anywhere near the players those guys are, or were.

I think his point was more that this isn't the typical first RFA contract where you're dealing with a 21 year old that's just entering their prime. Kaprizov's well into his and is going to have a different outlook in terms of commitment and money.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It's not like he has missed out on $20 million or anything. It's not a massive number. But I can see why he'd want his next contract to kick in on the front side of 30. He should have to give a little to get that though.

5 x $7.6M sounds good to me. Ceremoniously makes him the highest paid on the team, and should be for a while. Probably not enough savings to make much of a dent in whatever the center position would've ended up otherwise though.

 

[MuckOG]

Kaprizov, Nedeljkovic, and Robertson are the Calder finalists

 

[ThatGuy22]

Russo said a weird thing on the radio about Kap and the contract negotiations. Something to the effect that Kap will want to recover all the cash he lost by playing in the KHL rather than the NHL. I am thinking, "How the hell is that MN's problem?". We would would have welcomed him with open arms years ago. He was the one who chose to sign longterm in Russia. Why do we have to pay for his decision?

Looking at the list above, and keeping in mind the general business climate in the NHL, I would hope we sign him 6 years at 7M. That is fair to both parties, and would see him higher paid than some of the very talented players listed above. 5 years would be less than desirable, but if that's what he wants then we do it for 6.5M. I think the 8x8M is extremely fair...I would even say an overpay. I have heard that the NHL might have a flat cap for the next 5 years- we have to start acting like it.

If Kaprizov is resolved to be paid like Panarin, then we just have to shake our heads, sign him for as long as we can at as small a number as we can, and make our piece with the fact that he won't re-sign. Kaprizov is good, but we have seen how teams that sign players for extreme salaries such as Marner, Eichel, Mathews, Kane, Panarin, Doughty, EK tend to do, and with all due respect to Kap, he isn't anywhere near the players those guys are, or were.

Kaprizov probably lost practically nothing by staying in the KHL.

If I remember correctly, at the time he signed the three year extension with CSKA it also reworked the salary of the final year of his previous deal from like 70k to around 1 million. Money he wouldn't have got if he didn't extend and just finished his initial deal.

When you factor in Russia's income tax is 13% (with no local income taxes allowed), and Kaprizov would have been paying roughly 45% Federal/State income tax here under his ELC, he probably didn't make out much worse. (not to mention escrow)

He still would have been playing under an ELC this year if he came over at the end of 2018 like we all initially hoped, and negotiating his first RFA contract.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Kaprizov probably lost practically nothing by staying in the KHL.

If I remember correctly, at the time he signed the three year extension with CSKA it also reworked the salary of the final year of his previous deal from like 70k to around 1 million. Money he wouldn't have got if he didn't extend and just finished his initial deal.

When you factor in Russia's income tax is 13% (with no local income taxes allowed), and Kaprizov would have been paying roughly 45% Federal/State income tax here under his ELC, he probably didn't make out much worse.

He still would have been playing under an ELC this year if he came over at the end of 2018 like we all initially hoped, and negotiating his first RFA contract.

He still would've been a 3 year ELC and not a 2 year?

 

[ThatGuy22]

He still would've been a 3 year ELC and not a 2 year?

He just turned 24, so this is his 23 year old season. Means 18/19 which would have been his first NHL season would have started when he was 21.

21 year olds sign 3 year ELCs.

So yes.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

He just turned 24, so this is his 23 year old season. Means 18/19 which would have been his first NHL season would have started when he was 21.

21 year olds sign 3 year ELCs.

So yes.

Possibility that the 1st year is burned though, no?

 

[Mickey the mouse]

Possibility that the 1st year is burned though, no?

I definitely think so no matter who was GM

 

[ThatGuy22]

Possibility that the 1st year is burned though, no?

CSKA lost in the final round that year, finishing on April 22nd.

Wild lost to the Jets in the first round, final game on April 20th.

So no.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Some quick napkin math on the alternet universe where Kaprizov doesn't extend.

Assumptions I made are that the extension salary is 1m (rumored at the time, never seen confirmed), I had his NHL ELC's hit bonuses like Barzal. Getting roughly half(people under-estimate how hard to hit some of the bonuses are). Table is after tax rate of 13 Percent for KHL salaries, 45 for NHL.

I did not attempt to include escrow/pandemic, which would lower both I assume.

	Alternet Universe	Actual
17/18	60900	870000
18/19	700000	870000
19/20	700000	870000
20/21	700000	966000
Total	2,160,900	3,576,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

He gained 1.5 million by signing his extension in the KHL.

 

[Mickey the mouse]

CSKA lost in the final round that year, finishing on April 22nd.

Wild lost to the Jets in the first round, final game on April 20th.

So no.

I stand corrected !

 

[AKL]

Some quick napkin math on the alternet universe where Kaprizov doesn't extend.

Assumptions I made are that the extension salary is 1m (rumored at the time, never seen confirmed), I had his NHL ELC's hit bonuses like Barzal. Getting roughly half(people under-estimate how hard to hit some of the bonuses are). Table is after tax rate of 13 Percent for KHL salaries, 45 for NHL.

I did not attempt to include escrow/pandemic, which would lower both I assume.

	Alternet Universe	Actual
17/18	60900	870000
18/19	700000	870000
19/20	700000	870000
20/21	700000	966000
Total	2,160,900	3,576,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

He gained 1.5 million by signing his extension in the KHL.

I wonder if his case isn't that he lost real money by playing in the KHL, but that he lost potential money. Maybe he and his camp think he could be making 9-10 at this point forward if he had more seasons under his belt to prove himself, and they're trying to make a case for that? Probably pretty difficult to prove, but they could be right.

 

[BagHead]

I wonder if his case isn't that he lost real money by playing in the KHL, but that he lost potential money. Maybe he and his camp think he could be making 9-10 at this point forward if he had more seasons under his belt to prove himself, and they're trying to make a case for that? Probably pretty difficult to prove, but they could be right.

I think his agent is smart enough to know the Wild won't go into double digit millions on a guy with a little over half a year under his belt (you don't get "proven" money when you haven't proven it), so it makes sense to do a mid-term deal, 4-5 years, and then cash in big once it's done. So yeah, there's your making-up-for-potential-money-lost plan. Honestly, I think that is in Kaprizov's best interest, and I think it makes sense for the team, too. Structure this contract so that he gets paid on his next one as Suter and Parise come off the books.

 

[AKL]

I think his agent is smart enough to know the Wild won't go into double digit millions on a guy with a little over half a year under his belt (you don't get "proven" money when you haven't proven it), so it makes sense to do a mid-term deal, 4-5 years, and then cash in big once it's done. So yeah, there's your making-up-for-potential-money-lost plan. Honestly, I think that is in Kaprizov's best interest, and I think it makes sense for the team, too. Structure this contract so that he gets paid on his next one as Suter and Parise come off the books.

I think Kaprizov's agent is probably looking at it more like, give me another 1-2 year deal, and you'll either get me a center to play with that'll make my numbers go up and I'll be worth 9-11 then, or I'll walk to another team who will give me that. I don't think they're trying for a 4-6 year deal.

And their tactic when Guerin says he won't do 1-3 is to say, okay then on a 4-6 year deal we want that 8M that you want to offer on a 7-8 year deal, because in theory, Kap can still cash in another another 6-7 year deal after that worth north of 10M.

 

[ThatGuy22]

I wonder if his case isn't that he lost real money by playing in the KHL, but that he lost potential money. Maybe he and his camp think he could be making 9-10 at this point forward if he had more seasons under his belt to prove himself, and they're trying to make a case for that? Probably pretty difficult to prove, but they could be right.

I would hope BG can politely point out that actions have consequences, and it was his decision to not come to the NHL a few years earlier.

 

[BagHead]

I think Kaprizov's agent is probably looking at it more like, give me another 1-2 year deal, and you'll either get me a center to play with that'll make my numbers go up and I'll be worth 9-11 then, or I'll walk to another team who will give me that. I don't think they're trying for a 4-6 year deal.

And their tactic when Guerin says he won't do 1-3 is to say, okay then on a 4-6 year deal we want that 8M that you want to offer on a 7-8 year deal, because in theory, Kap can still cash in another another 6-7 year deal after that worth north of 10M.

Could be. If that is the case, then the Wild better figure out how to shed some cap before the next contract is up.