Player Discussion Kirill Kaprizov (Part 2)

[Zine]

Imagine if you were a fan of Neftekhimik Nizhnekamsk and your team never got any top talent because everyone just wants to play in Moscow or St. Petersburg?

Kaprizov would have had plenty of rights at this point had he not waited six years to come over. His problem, not ours.

Yea it sucks but at some point workers have rights. My entire point is there are no 'plenty of rights' NHL contracts; regardless of when you sign. What?...age 27 UFA? Gimme a break. The league is restrictive as shit. Even if NHLPA agrees to this nonsense. Out clauses? No. Gentleman agreements? No.

Seriously, Kaprizov has his future to worry about. Who knows what's in store in the coming years.

 

[AKL]

Yea it sucks but at some point workers have rights. My entire point is there are no 'plenty of rights' NHL contracts; regardless of when you sign. What?...age 27 UFA? Gimme a break. The league is restrictive as shit. Even if NHLPA agrees to this nonsense. Out clauses? No. Gentleman agreements? No.

Seriously, Kaprizov has his future to worry about. Who knows what's in store in the coming years.

"Workers have rights"? We're talking about a guy who's going to be paid millions to play a game regardless of where he ends up. Having to spend a few years in Minnesota as opposed to going straight to Vegas or Los Angeles or New York is not infringing on his "rights"

 

[Zine]

"Workers have rights"? We're talking about a guy who's going to be paid millions to play a game regardless of where he ends up. Having to spend a few years in Minnesota as opposed to going straight to Vegas or Los Angeles or New York is not infringing on his "rights"

Of course it is. Let's say you get a lawyers degree, but at the pinnacle level you're only given the option to practice in, say, Missouri with no other recourse. Nowhere else. Is that not infringing on your rights? Gimme a break.

In what other line of work are you thoroughly restricted to 1 city or organization? It's lunacy, regardless of how much money you're paid.

I don't blame Kaprizov one bit for any hesitancy to sign a long-term contract. Doing as such is nuts.

 

[2Pair]

Of course it is. Let's say you get a lawyers degree, but at the pinnacle level you're only given the option to practice in, say, Missouri with no other recourse. Nowhere else. Is that not infringing on your rights? Gimme a break.

In what other line of work are you thoroughly restricted to 1 city or organization? It's lunacy, regardless of how much money you're paid.

I don't blame Kaprizov one bit for any hesitancy to sign a long-term contract. Doing as such is nuts.

Kaprizov is free to go play hockey wherever the f*** he wants. If he wants it to be in the NHL then they have rules in place to insure that the league runs as well as it can for all 32 teams.

 

[AKL]

In what other line of work are you thoroughly restricted to 1 city or organization? It's lunacy, regardless of how much money you're paid.

He's not thoroughly restricted to the Wild for his entire career, he's thoroughly restricted to them for the exact same amount of time every other player in the league is thoroughly restricted to their team in his situation.

And as far as other lines of work that tell you where to go, medicine and flight (at least specifically air traffic control) both tell you where you have to go when you start your career, before you can choose later on. There are probably some others as well.

 

[MNNumbers]

Of course it is. Let's say you get a lawyers degree, but at the pinnacle level you're only given the option to practice in, say, Missouri with no other recourse. Nowhere else. Is that not infringing on your rights? Gimme a break.

In what other line of work are you thoroughly restricted to 1 city or organization? It's lunacy, regardless of how much money you're paid.

I don't blame Kaprizov one bit for any hesitancy to sign a long-term contract. Doing as such is nuts.

This is a very European perspective, and in fact, is law, in Europe. This is the reason that NHL is not going to expand to Europe. There is no way to transfer the CBA of North America into the European legal system.

 

[Zine]

Kaprizov is free to go play hockey wherever the f*** he wants. If he wants it to be in the NHL then they have rules in place to insure that the league runs as well as it can for all 32 teams.

I said restrictive at the pinnacle level; which the NHL is.

Like someone pointed out, this shit doesn't fly in other parts of the world primarily because it's so restrictive.
Like I've noticed in America, people despise big corporate rule unless, well, it's their favorite sports teams --- then it's by all means necessary, whereby the employee is the selfish bad guy.

 

[Bazeek]

I said restrictive at the pinnacle level; which the NHL is.

Like someone pointed out, this shit doesn't fly in other parts of the world primarily because it's so restrictive.
Like I've noticed in America, people despise big corporate rule unless, well, it's their favorite sports teams --- then it's by all means necessary, whereby the employee is the selfish bad guy.

It's seen as symbiotic. To have a large, healthy league you have to have competitive teams. To have competitive teams you need to distribute the talent, and to do that you need things like the draft, RFA rules and the rest of it. I won't say they've struck the perfect balance or worked out the perfect system, but if they just removed those rules you'd see multiple teams fold, the league contract, and opportunities dry up for many players. It's a trade-off.

 

[2Pair]

It's seen as symbiotic. To have a large, healthy league you have to have competitive teams. To have competitive teams you need to distribute the talent, and to do that you need things like the draft, RFA rules and the rest of it. I won't say they've struck the perfect balance or worked out the perfect system, but if they just removed those rules you'd see multiple teams fold, the league contract, and opportunities dry up for many players. It's a trade-off.

Like the KHL

 

[Bazeek]

Like the KHL

Not to put too fine a point on it.

 

[Zine]

It's seen as symbiotic. To have a large, healthy league you have to have competitive teams. To have competitive teams you need to distribute the talent, and to do that you need things like the draft, RFA rules and the rest of it. I won't say they've struck the perfect balance or worked out the perfect system, but if they just removed those rules you'd see multiple teams fold, the league contract, and opportunities dry up for many players. It's a trade-off.

Well sure. You illustrated the reasons for it; but it doesn't negate the fact that the NHL is an immensely restrictive league. And, imo, the talent is distributed too much (expansion in the US) whereby the league is neglecting the fans of its established base. But that topic is for another day.
But, at it pertains to the situation, it's probably bullcrap from Kaprizov's point of view.

 

[Zine]

Like the KHL

No, the KHL is run in a different manner (sponsorship) but you're seeing the same shit as in the NHL. Sure some teams have folded but the league is still expanding into untraditional markets (Sochi, China, Khanty-Mansiysk).
The main difference between KHL and NHL is not contraction, players losing jobs, etc.; --- it's that the KHL is much more top heavy.

 

[Bazeek]

Well sure. You illustrated the reasons for it; but it doesn't negate the fact that the NHL is an immensely restrictive league. And, imo, the talent is distributed too much (expansion in the US) whereby the league is neglecting the fans of its established base. But that topic is for another day.
But, at it pertains to the situation, it's probably bullcrap from Kaprizov's point of view.

Then he has the KHL option.

 

[Zine]

Then he has the KHL option.

He's always had the KHL option. But that gets to the heart of the issue. With the option of a good living in the KHL, the slave mentality of NHL owners has actually exacerbated and added to the proverbial 'Russian factor'.

Imo, tons of more Russians would attempt the NHL if it wasn't such a risk and players were given more control over their own careers.

 

[Lapa]

This is the Kaprizov thread. Get back on topic.

 

[PM88RU]

I have a question to ask.

I understand that Kirill has to sign with MIN for at least three years, and that's called ELC, right?

But, from the other side, does the team have an obligation to sign a player? If not (and that's understandable cause a prospect might fail to produce), then what kind of a deal is that??

Sign with us for ~8(10?) years on our terms or go home? looks more like blackmailing to me. I'm from Russia, I've heard a lot about US democracy, but if what I wrote is correct, nothing about this system looks like a freedom demonstration to me...

 

[AKL]

I have a question to ask.

I understand that Kirill has to sign with MIN for at least three years, and that's called ELC, right?

But, from the other side, does the team have an obligation to sign a player? If not (and that's understandable cause a prospect might fail to produce), then what kind of a deal is that??

Sign with us for ~8(10?) years on our terms or go home? looks more like blackmailing to me. I'm from Russia, I've heard a lot about US democracy, but if what I wrote is correct, nothing about this system looks like a freedom demonstration to me...

It's far more nuanced than you're making it out to be, and the reason Kaprizov doesn't have a lot more leverage at the moment is because he waited way too long to come over.

Beyond that, Bazeek summed up the reason for such rules pretty nicely here:

It's seen as symbiotic. To have a large, healthy league you have to have competitive teams. To have competitive teams you need to distribute the talent, and to do that you need things like the draft, RFA rules and the rest of it. I won't say they've struck the perfect balance or worked out the perfect system, but if they just removed those rules you'd see multiple teams fold, the league contract, and opportunities dry up for many players. It's a trade-off.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I have a question to ask.

I understand that Kirill has to sign with MIN for at least three years, and that's called ELC, right?

But, from the other side, does the team have an obligation to sign a player? If not (and that's understandable cause a prospect might fail to produce), then what kind of a deal is that??

Sign with us for ~8(10?) years on our terms or go home? looks more like blackmailing to me. I'm from Russia, I've heard a lot about US democracy, but if what I wrote is correct, nothing about this system looks like a freedom demonstration to me...

They don’t have to sign him for three years he could sign for one

 

[Mickey the mouse]

I have a question to ask.

I understand that Kirill has to sign with MIN for at least three years, and that's called ELC, right?

But, from the other side, does the team have an obligation to sign a player? If not (and that's understandable cause a prospect might fail to produce), then what kind of a deal is that??

Sign with us for ~8(10?) years on our terms or go home? looks more like blackmailing to me. I'm from Russia, I've heard a lot about US democracy, but if what I wrote is correct, nothing about this system looks like a freedom demonstration to me...

Kap received his Qualifying Offer from Wild. He can sign it, not sign it or try to negotiate.

He has no arbitration rights or leverage accept to go back to KHL so he's basically screwed this season
2021/2022.

2022/20233 he should have arbitration rights and can also be offered a contract by every other team which the Wild CAN MATCH if they choose

 

[Minnesnota]

I have a question to ask.

I understand that Kirill has to sign with MIN for at least three years, and that's called ELC, right?

But, from the other side, does the team have an obligation to sign a player? If not (and that's understandable cause a prospect might fail to produce), then what kind of a deal is that??

Sign with us for ~8(10?) years on our terms or go home? looks more like blackmailing to me. I'm from Russia, I've heard a lot about US democracy, but if what I wrote is correct, nothing about this system looks like a freedom demonstration to me...

Your confusion lies in the fact that democracy refers to a form of government. Here in the United States, the federal, state, and local governments do not directly control or dictate the rules and regulations of the NHL, which is wholly independent and is not state run.

Kaprizov has the freedom to play hockey anywhere he chooses. If he wants to play in the NHL, however, his rights are owned by the Minnesota Wild until he's 27 years old and he becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent.

 

[Goose312]

From a recent interview in Russian with NYI's Ilya Sorokin. Seemed relevant.

 

[AKL]

From a recent interview in Russian with NYI's Ilya Sorokin. Seemed relevant.

Which everyone could already safely deduce from the fact that it would be a horrible career move for him.

 

[57special]

I think we can sum up all this as Kap's agent bargaining hard for him, as Fiala's agent is bargaining hard for him, and Aaron Rodger's agent for him. I full expect this to go on into September.

I am not worried. Both of those players are competitors, and want to be on the ice when the season starts. I do think that they will be influenced to sign if they get a better center that they can play with.

 

[PM88RU]

Thanks for the explanation. Seems to be more complicated than appeared at first sight.

And, well, I do understand the reasoning behind this. I see a perfect example of not balanced system in KHL where rich clubs like CSKA, SKA can afford to have like two complete rosters because they just have enough money for that. And this neither makes a league more competitive all over the Russia nor lets the prospects develop properly...

NHL system might not be ideal but it's better to have not perfect one than none.

P.s. "Russian card" is a BS IMO. Once you decide to come to play in the best league in the world, the only thing that can stop you and make you come back is if you fail to succeed or being treated really badly by your club.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I think big balls is either standing strong on a 7 or 8 year deal or he’s compromised to 5 and Kirill has still said no. The latter scenario would be somewhat alarming, but I’m fine with the former. If he wants to stand his ground he has all the leverage even if it doesn’t feel like it. Kirill wants to play in the NHL and has no player rights.