Player Discussion Kirill Kaprizov (Part 2)

[GuerinUp]

Vague allusions to locker room and management problems (which Guerin kind of but didn't really hint at) isn't really concrete evidence or reason to buy out a guy to blow a hole in your cap space.



Except feuding with your star players doesn't really help the culture. I agree that building a culture is a good thing (kicking out Koivu, Staal and Parise...and to some extent Suter), but not at the extent of wandering around for four years without a plan.

its been going on for years since yeo was coach, this isnt new news....

 

[thestonedkoala]

its been going on for years since yeo was coach, this isnt new news....

Wait, wait, wait - you're using Russo's podcast as evidence? I get it now...

Back to Kaprizov. Sign him to a three year deal, takes him one year past free agency. Trade him at the end of the three year deal and rebuild the Wild.

 

[Spurgeon]

The wording on CBA specifically states "games played [...] while under an SPC". If I had to interpret that, I would assume the 2019-20 KHL season doesn't count.

What it does mean is that if Kap was allowed to play in the bubble playoffs, he could have qualified for Group 6 UFA.

Yeah, it’s a unique situation, so pretty much up to interpretation. I would interpret it the same way as you though. However, nothing would shock me with how difficult it’s been to get Kap here.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Vague allusions to locker room and management problems (which Guerin kind of but didn't really hint at) isn't really concrete evidence or reason to buy out a guy to blow a hole in your cap space.



Except feuding with your star players doesn't really help the culture. I agree that building a culture is a good thing (kicking out Koivu, Staal and Parise...and to some extent Suter), but not at the extent of wandering around for four years without a plan.

feuding? negotiating is a bit different than feuding....

 

[GuerinUp]

Wait, wait, wait - you're using Russo's podcast as evidence?

im using a paper trail of articles on locker room issues, that was just one of the examples of it going on for years.

 

[BlackBusa24]

So business as usual, just shuffling the chairs on a sinking ship and throwing off the broken ones?

Dude I gave you plenty of reasons that you straight up ignored or you just thought it didn't fit your narrative... I don't know what to tell you. Believe what you want to believe at this point.

I've also said a few times now that he could have been the biggest locker room cancer there was... No team is going to throw a player under the bus like that. At this point you're going to just have to trust that they did it for a reason

 

[BlackBusa24]

Vague allusions to locker room and management problems (which Guerin kind of but didn't really hint at) isn't really concrete evidence or reason to buy out a guy to blow a hole in your cap space.



Except feuding with your star players doesn't really help the culture. I agree that building a culture is a good thing (kicking out Koivu, Staal and Parise...and to some extent Suter), but not at the extent of wandering around for four years without a plan.

How the heck do you know that he doesn't have a plan? Just because he doesn't tell you about it? ... Just because your wife doesn't tell you about her plans to leave you doesn't mean that she isn't going to do it. It's probably just something they/she don't want to talk about

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

clearly there was.

Good or bad, TBD.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Wait, wait, wait - you're using Russo's podcast as evidence? I get it now...

Back to Kaprizov. Sign him to a three year deal, takes him one year past free agency. Trade him at the end of the three year deal and rebuild the Wild.

No it doesn't.

 

[BlackBusa24]

Bill Guerin Chose Cap Hell Over "Uncoachable" Ryan Suter and Zach Parise

Pretty comprehensive read if you look at it all

 

[GuerinUp]

maybe we can trade cska our contract buyouts to let kap go there for a year

 

[Bazeek]

Couple of things from Russo's KFAN appearance this afternoon.

• Thinks whatever contract CSKA has on the table would likely have some kind of out clause that leaves the door open for Kaprizov to sign in Minnesota before the Dec 1 deadline. So in terms of the contract it's not impossible that Kaprizov starts the year in Moscow but signs with Minnesota sometime after that.
• Said that the two sides were largely at a stalemate, but also said discussions had gone back and forth over term.
  
• Said they haven't actually talked money in quite a while, apparently because reluctance/avoidance on Theophanous's part. I'm not sure if that means Kaprizov's side is literally avoiding the topic entirely or just keeping the ask at $10m+ regardless of the term, which would also make it not worth discussing. It'd be worth relistening to that part (was said at ~3:30 CDT) once the audio is posted.
  
• Didn't say much about Fiala, but reiterated that some progress seems to have been made recently.

 

[Bazeek]

Couple of things from Russo's KFAN appearance this afternoon.

• Thinks whatever contract CSKA has on the table would likely have some kind of out clause that leaves the door open for Kaprizov to sign in Minnesota before the Dec 1 deadline. So in terms of the contract it's not impossible that Kaprizov starts the year in Moscow but signs with Minnesota sometime after that.
• Said that the two sides were largely at a stalemate, but also said discussions had gone back and forth over term.
  
• Said they haven't actually talked money in quite a while, apparently because reluctance/avoidance on Theophanous's part. I'm not sure if that means Kaprizov's side is literally avoiding the topic entirely or just keeping the ask at $10m+ regardless of the term, which would also make it not worth discussing. It'd be worth relistening to that part (was said at ~3:30 CDT) once the audio is posted.
  
• Didn't say much about Fiala, but reiterated that some progress seems to have been made recently.

Also, if people question the idea that Russo floats info on the team's behalf I'd encourage you to listen to any audio he's done about Kaprizov in the last month or so. Every single time he goes out of his way to say:

1. Kaprizov's a very "good kid"
2. He's letting his agent to run the negotiations
3. The longer this goes on the more it hurts Kaprizov's reputation with management and, potentially, the fans
4. Kaprizov should really jump in, take the reigns, and tell his agent to get a deal done

It's impossible for it to not sound like talking points after hearing that, in the same order, at least a half-dozen times in the last month. I strongly suspect that the message is ultimately intended for Kaprizov and not a radio/podcast audience. It's effectively the inverse of Theophanous feeding things to Weekes and Seravalli.

 

[Wasted Talent]

Couple of things from Russo's KFAN appearance this afternoon.

• Thinks whatever contract CSKA has on the table would likely have some kind of out clause that leaves the door open for Kaprizov to sign in Minnesota before the Dec 1 deadline. So in terms of the contract it's not impossible that Kaprizov starts the year in Moscow but signs with Minnesota sometime after that.
• Said that the two sides were largely at a stalemate, but also said discussions had gone back and forth over term.
  
• Said they haven't actually talked money in quite a while, apparently because reluctance/avoidance on Theophanous's part. I'm not sure if that means Kaprizov's side is literally avoiding the topic entirely or just keeping the ask at $10m+ regardless of the term, which would also make it not worth discussing. It'd be worth relistening to that part (was said at ~3:30 CDT) once the audio is posted.
  
• Didn't say much about Fiala, but reiterated that some progress seems to have been made recently.

Whatever the reason behind avoiding salary discussion, it allowed them to make a clickbaity statement about no new offers since April.

Also, I thought KHL doesn't allow NHL out clauses anymore. Or are they willing to bend the rules for Kaprizov?

 

[Bazeek]

Whatever the reason behind avoiding salary discussion, it allowed them to make a clickbaity statement about no new offers since April.

Also, I thought KHL doesn't allow NHL out clauses anymore. Or are they willing to bend the rules for Kaprizov?

I'm not sure on that last point and I'd guess that Russo isn't either. The out clause idea was presented as informed speculation on his part (or on the part of a source he trusts), but there's no telling how dated his information about KHL contract rules is.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Whatever the reason behind avoiding salary discussion, it allowed them to make a clickbaity statement about no new offers since April.

Also, I thought KHL doesn't allow NHL out clauses anymore. Or are they willing to bend the rules for Kaprizov?

I'm not sure on that last point and I'd guess that Russo isn't either. The out clause idea was presented as informed speculation on his part (or on the part of a source he trusts), but there's no telling how dated his information about KHL contract rules is.

It's definetly in the KHL's league regulations that there are no out clauses.

Article 17. No special terms in the Standard Contract of the KHL Hockey Player

1. The Contract shall not contain any terms stipulating termination of the Contract by the Hockey Player or transfer thereof to another team in case the Club’s management is changed, including the President, Vice-President, General Manager, Sports Director, Head Coach and other management employees and coaches, as well as depending on the Hockey Player’s playing time and other sports indicators.

2. It shall not contain any terms related to early termination or suspension of the Contracts in connection with leave of the Players to the Clubs of other hockey leagues or federations.

 

[Bazeek]

It's definetly in the KHL's league regulations that there are no out clauses.

That'd be kind of a relief in my mind. Signing with Moscow as a way to draw this out into the regular season seems like a pretty effective way to shift pressure onto the Wild. If Kaprizov needs to choose between Moscow or Minnesota by Sept 1 I'd say the pressure is squarely on him.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

It’s also worth noting that Russo re-affirmed that Kaprizov’s camp is looking for more than 9M on a short term deal. I know we probably haven’t seen the best of him yet, but man does this not smell good to me. The guy is a Kyle Connor level player, and he’s asking to get paid like Panarin.

 

[Bazeek]

It’s also worth noting that Russo re-affirmed that Kaprizov’s camp is looking for more than 9M on a short term deal. I know we probably haven’t seen the best of him yet, but man does this not smell good to me. The guy is a Kyle Connor level player, and he’s asking to get paid like Panarin.

I could be wrong but the sky-high AAV numbers strike me as another attempt to carve out leverage any which way they can. It wouldn't surprise me to see the contract end up at $8m+, but term is the real battlefield for both sides here.

 

[Ban Hammered]

Vague allusions to locker room and management problems (which Guerin kind of but didn't really hint at) isn't really concrete evidence or reason to buy out a guy to blow a hole in your cap space.



Except feuding with your star players doesn't really help the culture. I agree that building a culture is a good thing (kicking out Koivu, Staal and Parise...and to some extent Suter), but not at the extent of wandering around for four years without a plan.

Again...just because you don't know a plan doesn't mean management doesn't have one. More than likely you were never going to get anything beyond the standard we're going to build the best team we possibly can under the constraints that we have. You're not going to get a detailed step-by-step plan that is going to satisfy you so I honestly don't know what it is you're looking for
Also ..in every article or statement made about the release of these two I have yet to see anything praising their leadership and their presence in the locker room. It's all about we're going to miss the contributions on the ice. Nothing from current or former players about their leadership or locker room presence nothing from current or former coaches nothing from current or former management. I've worked in PR in journalism long enough to understand that when things like this happen it's not what said it's what's not said that ends up being what's true. Not one statement has contradicted anything from Souhan's article...or any other article that has hinted that they have been a problem in the locker room. That's telling to me. There may be people who made out of liked it but it certainly has seemed like it was the right decision to just rip the Band-Aid off and get rid of these two regardless of the financial constraints it may have put this team into

 

[57special]

It’s also worth noting that Russo re-affirmed that Kaprizov’s camp is looking for more than 9M on a short term deal. I know we probably haven’t seen the best of him yet, but man does this not smell good to me. The guy is a Kyle Connor level player, and he’s asking to get paid like Panarin.

Yeah, and even Panarin didn't get paid till he played 4 full years, and 320 games in the NHL.

 

[HobeyBroten]

To whom Guerin or Kaprizov? Because why wouldn't Kaprizov want to win a Cup?

Couldn't BG's pitch be: "We're not going to win one in the next 3-4, but if we stay the course and you trust me, we (hopefully) will be multi-year contenders or deeper threats into the playoffs, not the first round knock outs like we have been for the last 9 years."

At least that is the optimism I have. KK has only played 58 games, not saying he's going to do it, but how many high prospects have busted after a year or two?

There's no reason to bet the farm on such a small sample size in the NHL.

 

[Wasted Talent]

Yeah, and even Panarin didn't get paid till he played 4 full years, and 320 games in the NHL.

That might be because Panarin had a different agent than Theofanous (Kap's agent) before 2019. The same agent had a notoriously bad relationship with CBJ and eventually got a $10mil contract for Bobrovsky.

 

[keppel146]

I’m almost at the point of trading him for quality prospect(s) if it becomes clear he doesn’t want to be here

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Most agents at least attempt to maintain working relationships. This guy seems determined to burn any mid size market with a Russian client to the ground.