Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal

[417]

Marc Bergevin : Top centermen are not available

It took only a few months for Hughes to do it.

He was right though, it's extremely difficult to acquire top C's...but where he went wrong is that he never thought critically.

See I don't think one can argue that Kirby Dach is a "top C" today, but Hughes identified him as a young C with a lot of upside who could turn into that.

That's where Bergevin never got it right.

No, one is going to trade you their top 6 C for scraps...but if you have a scouting team worth anything, you can target players like Dach.

A difficult task, is not an impossible one.

 

[Redux91]

He was right though, it's extremely difficult to acquire top C's...but where he went wrong is that he never thought critically.

See I don't think one can argue that Kirby Dach is a "top C" today, but Hughes identified him as a young C with a lot of upside who could turn into that.

That's where Bergevin never got it right.

No, one is going to trade you their top 6 C for scraps...but if you have a scouting team worth anything, you can target players like Dach.

A difficult task, is not an impossible one.

1000000% this
Berg just did NOT get that ffs
No foresight

 

[CHwest]

1000000% this
Berg just did NOT get that ffs
No foresight

He never thought about anything, just reacted, usually in a bad way.

 

[ToNedOuT]

Really liking Dach in the preseason. Despite what we were told he looks engaged in the d-zone, faceoff issues might be overblown, showed some grit last night, and he’s looking dynamic offensively. He’s basically looking like what we wanted KK to be.

 

[Andy]

He was right though, it's extremely difficult to acquire top C's...but where he went wrong is that he never thought critically.

See I don't think one can argue that Kirby Dach is a "top C" today, but Hughes identified him as a young C with a lot of upside who could turn into that.

That's where Bergevin never got it right.

No, one is going to trade you their top 6 C for scraps...but if you have a scouting team worth anything, you can target players like Dach.

A difficult task, is not an impossible one.

The other thing is trading an asset before it's apparent that they won't reach their potential. I always felt like MB held on to his assets for too long and by the time he decided he didn't want the player anymore, no one else did either. That or he was only willing to move players once it was confirmed to him that the trade wouldn't bite him.

 

[417]

1000000% this
Berg just did NOT get that ffs
No foresight

Which is weird...because that's kind of how he ended up with Danault & Suzuki.

 

[Redux91]

Which is weird...because that's kind of how he ended up with Danault & Suzuki.

I can honestly say Suzuki could VERY well of been an accident lmao

 

[Fainting Couch]

Which is weird...because that's kind of how he ended up with Danault & Suzuki.

HOW DARE YOU RELY ON FACTS!

 

[Justsayin]

Which is weird...because that's kind of how he ended up with Danault & Suzuki.

My impression was that he lucked out on Suzuki as opposed to seeing his potential. Same to a lesser extent with Danault.

 

[417]

The other thing is trading an asset before it's apparent that they won't reach their potential. I always felt like MB held on to his assets for too long and by the time he decided he didn't want the player anymore, no one else did either. That or he was only willing to move players once it was confirmed to him that the trade wouldn't bite him.

100%...I personally think Bergevin gets way more hate than he deserved, I don't think he was as bad as many portray him (ducks for cover) but he was clearly in over his head when it came to having foresight or vision beyond what was directly in front of him.

If building a team was an exercise that was renewed at the beginning of every year, like almost a fantasy draft lol I think he would have been OK.

But anything that required planning and vision beyond the current year...forget about it.

A guy like Kirby Dach wouldn't have made it onto Bergevin's radar until well after he broke out and then he'd tell us it's hard to acquire guys like that.

I can honestly say Suzuki could VERY well of been an accident lmao

Maybe lol but wouldn't be surprised if that happens often.

My impression was that he lucked out on Suzuki as opposed to seeing his potential. Same to a lesser extent with Danault.

Maybe...but luck is always somewhat of a factor in trades.

I won't take that away from him, that Suzuki and Danault trade, were both steals. Good on him.

 

[JoelWarlord]

He was right though, it's extremely difficult to acquire top C's...but where he went wrong is that he never thought critically.

A difficult task, is not an impossible one.

The other problem is he was never willing to just pay a fair price to get a deal done. Everything had to be a bargain and he had to "win" every trade. The only real exception was Subban for Weber, and you could potentially argue Sergachev for Drouin but I think in Bergevin's mind he saw that as a bargain too. He was unwilling to just pay a 1st + Poehling to get a Selke-candidate #1C in his prime to complement Price and Weber. He wanted to do it on the cheap so he tried to go bargain bin shopping with Domi and prayed that Kotkaniemi/Suzuki would work out in time to be big Cs while Price/Weber were still around.

Even in the Canada division year where he went "all-in" it was trading a 4th for Edmundson's rights, bargain hunting on Anderson, trading a mid round pick for a 1B goalie, and signing Toffoli on a discount. It wasn't paying to get a difference-maker like Devon Toews. It was always bargain shopping and simply just paying a 1st + some prospects to get a good veteran player at a premium position was never an option.

Dach isn't quite the same thing but it's the same underlying logic. Hughes and Gorton identified a valuable asset with rare traits who would only get more expensive if he developed into the kind of player they hope he can be. They didn't screw around trying to dumpster dive, they accepted that these kinds of prospects are expensive so they found a way to move a good young player like Romanov and some depth picks to get him. Bergevin would have heard the price and recoiled in horror before trading a 5th and a throw-in for Logan Brown or Henrik Borgstrom instead.

I can honestly say Suzuki could VERY well of been an accident lmao

It genuinely kinda was, the initial target was Glass and Vegas didn't budge so they shifted to Suzuki. Not that it was necessarily a bad thing at the time to be insisting on Glass but that trade looks very differently had Vegas been OK with giving him up.

 

[Redux91]

It genuinely kinda was, the initial target was Glass and Vegas didn't budge so they shifted to Suzuki. Not that it was necessarily a bad thing at the time to be insisting on Glass but that trade looks very differently had Vegas been OK with giving him up.

Yup lol, exactly what I was insinuating

 

[Guy Larose]

lmfao people thinking he was soft.

This board has always been shit at player evaluation...everyone ragged on Matheson as well and it seems like he'll be the opposite of what people here said.

 

[DAChampion]

Bergevin would have never thought up the Romanov for Dach trade.

And I'm pretty sure that if an other GM had thought of it, he would have declined the offer.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

What kind of production could we see from Dach this year? Definitely expecting a jump. 50ish points would be a nice leap.

 

[WeThreeKings]

What kind of production could we see from Dach this year? Definitely expecting a jump. 50ish points would be a nice leap.

I think you're looking for something in the 40 range. 50 would be if he gets 1st PP and it clicks or he plays a lot with Caufield.

I'm not sure how much finish he's gonna get with Hoffman and Gallagher, or Pitlick, or Armia, or Anderson.

 

[417]

Bergevin would have never thought up the Romanov for Dach trade.

And I'm pretty sure that if an other GM had thought of it, he would have declined the offer.

I know it's not nearly the same...but I love playing fantasy sports, fantasy basketball and football especially.

I have a rule that I don't make a trade unless I feel like i'm giving up something I'd rather not give up.

Trying to make every trade a "steal" is how you get nothing done.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

1000000% this
Berg just did NOT get that ffs
No foresight

Berg was a bad GM. I think most kind of realize it by now other than the most stubborn stragglers.

Which is weird...because that's kind of how he ended up with Danault & Suzuki.

Only took him 9 years to acquire a decent 1-2 punch at center. Yay?

HOW DARE YOU RELY ON FACTS!

Bergie, is that you?

 

[417]

I think you're looking for something in the 40 range. 50 would be if he gets 1st PP and it clicks or he plays a lot with Caufield.

I'm not sure how much finish he's gonna get with Hoffman and Gallagher, or Pitlick, or Armia, or Anderson.

To me it's going to come down to ice time.

Dvorak & Dach are going to be fighting for the spot behind Suzuki whose likely going to play close to 20 mins a game.

If Dach can get in the 16-18 min range, I fully expect 50pts.

But if he's in the 12-14 min range because Dvorak is facing top lines and he's the one getting 16-18 mins...then even 40pts might prove difficult.

Only took him 9 years to acquire a decent 1-2 punch at center. Yay?

That wasn't an endorsement.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

Getting back on topic, I'd say Dach has been the best player in preseason so far. The next thing he needs to do is learn to convert his obvious skills into points, which is something he's never been amazing at, even in junior.

Looks very promising in preseason though. Come on T-Rex! You can do it!

 

[SlafySZN]

To me it's going to come down to ice time.

Dvorak & Dach are going to be fighting for the spot behind Suzuki whose likely going to play close to 20 mins a game.

If Dach can get in the 16-18 min range, I fully expect 50pts.

But if he's in the 12-14 min range because Dvorak is facing top lines and he's the one getting 16-18 mins...then even 40pts might prove difficult.

He should have priority over Dvorak for his development but yeah around 40-50 points, depend on the linemates too.

His career high was last year with 26 points so he will get more for sure.

 

[Supersonic]

This board has always been shit at player evaluation...everyone ragged on Matheson as well and it seems like he'll be the opposite of what people here said.

People also flipped the **** out when Bergevin traded for Edmundson. And don’t even start about Chiarot (who got us a first)!

 

[417]

He should have priority over Dvorak for his development but yeah around 40-50 points, depend on the linemates too.

His career high was last year with 26 points so he will get more for sure.

Should...but I have Montreal Canadiens PTSD that's telling me to expect otherwise though lol.

Too many years watching this organization prioritize washed vets in favor of younger players with more potential upside.

 

[SlafySZN]

Getting back on topic, I'd say Dach has been the best player in preseason so far. The next thing he needs to do is learn to convert his obvious skills into points, which is something he's never been amazing at, even in junior.

Looks very promising in preseason though. Come on T-Rex! You can do it!

It’s crazy seeing him play, he always has like 2-3 GOOD chances every game or makes very good plays.

Every game you’re like, oh man he could’ve finished this game with 3 points easy.

It comes down to linemates that can finish his play and him shooting more instead of passing like yesterday when he went through 2-3 players and then tried to pass to Dvorak.

 

[FrankMTL]

Getting back on topic, I'd say Dach has been the best player in preseason so far. The next thing he needs to do is learn to convert his obvious skills into points, which is something he's never been amazing at, even in junior.

Looks very promising in preseason though. Come on T-Rex! You can do it!

He had 73 points in 62 games as a 17 year old in the WHL which is pretty damn good production. He was already in the NHL at 18, so he never got the chance to play his 18 and 19 year old seasons in the CHL which is where most talented junior players really rack up the points.

But yes, he needs to transfer some of that skill into NHL points now. He can definitely do it though as everything is there for him to succeed.