I am much more reserved about that. The team gets too old upfront. All those players 2-5 years ago would have been awesome. Now... not so much.
KHL Trades, Rumors and Free Agent Talk Part 6
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I am much more reserved about that. The team gets too old upfront. All those players 2-5 years ago would have been awesome. Now... not so much.
MoeBartoli
Checkers-to-Jackets
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Who in their right mind would want Nikita “Filly don’t do rebounds” Filatov as their agent?
aonb
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Good question. Wish him luck anyway. Maybe he'll back to hockey at some point.
cska78
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aonb
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He just sucks at KHL level right now. If he can gain some confidence in VHL, why not?
I was going to reply to you a week ago saying that it was not exactly the case, but today is not the day for that.
Groshev traded to SKA.
cska78
Registered User
Why is the league pathetic though? It's not like SKA is winning it every year. THEY are pathetic for it maybe. Also technically there is nothing against the rules in what they are doing. It just does not help them win it seems.
BTW looking at the NHL I learned to prefer a league with powerhouses and beggars instead of the evened out BS the NHL is just to make more money of more fanbases. The best league in the world though is unwatchable as no team can afford enough talent.
There are always extremes. SKA is the other extreme. My beef with SKA is only them signing every young russian talent. Other than that let's not pretend like Avangard is not signing probably more players on an a-dime-a-dozen basis. SKA had at least to replace some significant losses in the last couple of seasons. Avangard just keeps hoarding everyone they can get their hands on. While again I don't see what's wrong with the league here.
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SoundAndFury
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The thing that's wrong with the league that salary cap is supposed to be functioning while it clearly isn't. Its whole point was supposed to be not letting what's happening to happen.
The league is pathetic because it continuously allows unlimited roster size and one team having two teams worth of players. It has nothing to do with "powerhouses and beggars". Best teams would still hold the best players. But they would be forced to let others play for other teams. That was the whole point. And currently, it's a joke.
And, SKA aside, it has worked to an extent. CSKA or Avangard did shed a fair few players. But how the f is SKA able to get around this I have no idea.
The league is pathetic because it continuously allows unlimited roster size and one team having two teams worth of players. It has nothing to do with "powerhouses and beggars". Best teams would still hold the best players. But they would be forced to let others play for other teams. That was the whole point. And currently, it's a joke.
And, SKA aside, it has worked to an extent. CSKA or Avangard did shed a fair few players. But how the f is SKA able to get around this I have no idea.
aonb
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It's Fantenberg. I'm not one of those people who like to point out mistakes, but I spent about two minutes wondering who the hell Fratenberg is
Any proof for that? Sources, numbers dates.
When I look at what's happening, I see a lot of players had to change teams because of the salary cap. Some are even sitting out without a job, because obviously no team was willing or able to meet their demands that were based on the foregone reality. You claim a team or teams break the cap rules, but you don't provide any evidence. Just because they sign players does not mean they are over the cap.
Wrong both ways. The cap is to limit the roster put on the ice on a given night. Nothing wrong with "unlimited" roster sizes. Two teams worth of players is also not true. The 2nd team would still be a VHL team, even if it were maybe one of the better VHL teams.
Is it?
From SKA's last season's roster:
Rundblad plays for Sochi
Zub doesn't have a job in the KHL
Zubarev plays for Spartak
Barabanov off to the AHL (to play God knows when)
Kagarlitskiy back to Dymano
Koskiranta back to Liiga
Lehterä plays for Spartak(leads the team in scoring)
Yakupov with Avangard via Amur
SKA aside?
What do they have now?
Fantenberg and Antipin is not an improvement on what they lost.
Their top effing line is something like Tkachyov-Vey-Burdasov. They don't have one PPG player on the roster. There are currently 16 players with PPG or more in the league. None of them plays for SKA. And the list features teams like Avtomobilist, Spartak, Vityaz, Dynamo Minsk and so on. So how the f is SKA able to get around what? They got worse. Significantly. Because of the cap. And yes, I know that all started last season already for SKA, but that is how they are able to fit under the cap. It's not like they have three OV's on the payroll and keep signing superstars.
Interistingly enough CSKA who are in the same boat manage to confidently lead the West while also having a much duller roster compared to their past seasons. Obviously Nikitin was able to install a system that works and it keeps producing even with lesser names.
The hard cap is in it's first year and it is working. There will be bumps along the road, but it doesn't mean everything is pathetic.
The REAL problem with SKA is that even with two MHL teams and a very young VHL roster they still might be not able to fit in all the YOUNG players they are signing left and right. It's about basically juniors who have little to do with the cap.
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I don't really know how effective a roster restriction would be when KHL teams have their own junior teams. SKA seems to pick these prospects up to their junior teams anyways (and I don't blame the prospects since SKA's youth facilities seem top notch). Podkolzin, Askarov and Michkov all joined SKA's junior teams without being under contract by SKA, but SKA ends up with these players' rights anyway (for very little to no compensation? Some Russian poster with better knowledge of compensation for junior players, feel free to correct me). And those are just some of the players they end up with.
The hard salary cap itself has for sure been effective this first season, and the points have already been brought up.
The hard salary cap itself has for sure been effective this first season, and the points have already been brought up.
vorky
@vorkywh24
- Jan 23, 2010
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Exactly, btw. it is the same with NHL. Look how many players they have under contract or rights who do not play the NHL.
Some posters may dislike that some rich KHL clubs have two MHL teams. There is a logic with it, Russian hockey needs more & more junior teams to create roster spots for young prospects. So, they decided to allow two teams in every KHL organisation if that organisation has money for it. Nothing wrong with it, the goal is to support the development of young players. More junior teams, more opportunities for players to play in.
I have counted 31 RUS clubs in MHL while Swedish J20 Nationell has 21 clubs. The second junior tier in Sweden has 43 teams while RUS NMHL has just 18 sides. So, two tiers in Sweden with 64 teams, Russia with 49 teams. But Sweden has 10 mil inhabitants while Russia has 145 mil. So, Russia should add more & more junior teams. Why limit some rich clubs if they have money & facilities & coaching? Especially if Russia has huge problems with too low numbers of ice surfaces in some regions.
SoundAndFury
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Ooof. That's a huge load of nothing. Let's do it your style, going bit by bit.
What sources numbers or dates do you want? I didn't say the are over the cap for the need to provide some kind of hard data. I said the cap doesn't work like expected because it's just common sense it doesn't. SKA still have 4 KHL-level goalies, 9 defensemen, and 18 forwards. Even the poorer team like Loko still has 14 KHL forwards and 8 defensemen. That's all not counting guys like Misyul, Malyshev, Slepets or Daryin whom they are forced to send down. I'm not alone, either.
Пашков — о жёстком потолке зарплат: загляните в таблицы — на манеже всё те же
Who are the ones sitting without a job? Any names, sources, numbers?
Yes, the overpaid guys were forced to move. The quite hilarious fact is that they still moved mostly from one rich team to another. It went from the point where Magnitka can now afford to carry 15 forwards as well.
Once again, can you show me where have I said teams break the rules or are over the cap? Seriously how does one write a post 3 miles long barking at the wrong tree?
Far and away the worst part of your post. You failed to mention the biggest SKA's cap casualty (Plotnikov) while lumping in there guys who flat out stunk, didn't have a real role and the ones who replaced them are pure upgrades and guys who went to the NA (did it slip your mind Zub doesn't "have a job in the KHL" because he has a contract with Ottawa?).
What is your evidence any of these guys are cap casualties? Because as I see it:
Rundblad - hung in a weird limbo of not even being an everyday player for the most part with SKA. Forced to sign a two-way contract. Banished to Sochi where Andrievsky still didn't even play him much, not even on 1st PP which is the only thing he is really kinda good at. Replaced by Bengtsson who has 12 points in 16 games.
Zub, Barabanov - duh.
Zubarev - again, a guy who would fail to play over 30 games per season, another one on a 2-way deal.
Koskiranta - pretty much replaced by Aaltonen mid-season last year, kinda amazing he was a SKA player for as long as he did anyway.
Lehtera - only 30 points as a 1C last season, huge disappointment, replaced by Vey who was by far a more productive player and 1C of the biggest rival.
Kagarlitsky, Yak - not even talking about these 2 deadweights. Kaga's transfer probably had little to do with the cap on either side, Yak probably would have been happy to mail it in for another year.
So yes, indeed, great losses.
Again, what are you even talking about. Bengtsson, Fantenberg and Antipin aren't an upgrade over Rundblad, Zubarev (two guys who barely even played) and Zub? Really? The only place SKA got weaker is on the wing. Yet they have improved on D and at C for sure.
So better than last year when it was Tkachyov-Lehtera-Yak. They kept the guys who worked well and replaced Lehtera who didn't work with Vey. Also this "top effing line" has 16 goals in 16 games amongst themselves. Maybe you should re-evaluate what KHL level is in general if this seems so unacceptable to you.
So absolutely the same as last year when the cap wasn't a thing. Nobody came even close to PPG on "stacked" SKA.
Oh this is the best part. Tkachyov was the best player on SKA last year with 0.8 PPG when they were able to spend as much as they want. But now you are saying SKA doesn't have PPG players "because of the cap". Is it me, or you are debunking your argument yourself? No, it isn't "because of the cap", cap evidently has nothing to do with it and Tkachyov is actually way closer to the PPG production this year.
Actually, it's because the KHL talent pool for top-end players is piss-poor at the moment. You make this strawman of "PPG player" which proves absolutely nothing. So did the SKA stink like it did last year and it's not about the cap at all or did the cap not change anything as far as SKA is concerned?
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Anyway, is such a pissing contest when the situation is clear to everyone. Even to Alexander Pashkov who "told it like it is". Because yes, this cap moved the deck chairs around a bit but had no real effect other than saving top clubs some money which nobody really cared about.
Now it's a whole different story if you simply don't like the idea of the cap which you have mentioned numerous times but that you like how it works doesn't mean it does work towards the healthy league.
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SoundAndFury
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I mean, just as Koshelev scores a goal, this is my issue: tell me one worthwhile player who had to move to a small team due to the cap? Magnitka scooped up Koshelev, Martynov, Plotnikov, Karpov. What trickles down to smaller teams than that? Sannikov, Zubarev? Laughable.
Why the hell you are still talking about the sOuRCeS when it's just a matter of opinion and common sense? Nothing is based on hard data here, for god's sake how hard is it to understand.
Also, I don't really understand why would you glue old-timer like Pashkov with those two. At risk of sounding dramatic, I'd say it's kinda disrespectful.
Why the hell you are still talking about the sOuRCeS when it's just a matter of opinion and common sense? Nothing is based on hard data here, for god's sake how hard is it to understand.
Also, I don't really understand why would you glue old-timer like Pashkov with those two. At risk of sounding dramatic, I'd say it's kinda disrespectful.
cska78
Registered User
of coarse there is nothing wrong with ska, they only have two unofficially official farm clubs in the KHL: Vityaz and Sochi, and probably three including Spartak, they rob everyone for youth talent, they have about 2.5 rosters of players signed...I mean it's an example how to run a team in a wild west league.
SotasicA
Registered User
- Aug 25, 2014
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Mitchell Miller could be going to SKA St.Petersburg.
Бывший проспект «Аризоны» Миллер может продолжить карьеру в КХЛ
Because being a decent human being is not a pre-requisite to play in the KHL. The fans must be used to it by now.
Бывший проспект «Аризоны» Миллер может продолжить карьеру в КХЛ
Because being a decent human being is not a pre-requisite to play in the KHL. The fans must be used to it by now.
I've not followed this draft class that much so I don't know how talented this kid is. Did he drop to the fourth round because of his history, or is he just not that much of a top prospect? I mean, he's 18 years old and went in the fourth round so I highly doubt that he would crack any of the top teams' roster spots.
And since Russian teams have an import limit of five players, so why would they waste it on an unproven player that does not even have any international experience
Edit: Just saw that he represented the US at Hlinka Gretzky and WJAC
SoundAndFury
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Be that as it may (because NHL is so different lol) I don't really see how could MHL-level player sign a contract with SKA. SKA-Neva maybe? Although even then I'm not sure why would they even bother.
SoundAndFury
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In a pretty surprising (to me) move, Sibir are letting Alexei Krasikov go. Still only 24 years of age, came to Sibir through their MHL team and KHL all-star once already. .935 Sv% last year. This is a cruel league to play in, sometimes. Nizhnekamsk the new destination? Sochi? Cherepovets?
Edit: Sochi appears to be the answer where he is supposed to replace Lassinantti who was one of the more unexpected transfer flops in recent memory.
Edit: Sochi appears to be the answer where he is supposed to replace Lassinantti who was one of the more unexpected transfer flops in recent memory.
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