KHL Trades, Rumors and Free Agent Talk Part 6

Discussion in 'The KHL' started by stv11, Jul 7, 2018.

  1. vorky @vorkywh24

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    I will politely remind you Mr. Tatar & HKM Zvolen. And, if I cared much, I would find more examples. And, are all agents/players/clubs/leagues/people saints?

    The point of my post you quoted. A person/journalist/etc does not know the rules & their reasoning, share some vision & examples from the magic NHL (just reading such an article btw). That is how the untrue messages are created with just one aim, to bash someone/something. We should not behave in that way if we are really interested in the league.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  2. SoundAndFury Registered User

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    No, they aren't. What does it have to do with the situation in the KHL? It's ok because somewhere else somebody did it too? This is why most people just take you as a mouthpiece because you defend KHL no matter what with irrelevant arguments and examples.

    And in the situation at hand, involving Amur, it's obvious that clubs once again are trying to find a workaround for whatever reason. So the fact that buyouts are, in theory, allowed is largely irrelevant as nobody seems to be willing to use them.
     
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  3. vorky @vorkywh24

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    I did not talk about Avangard, you came with this case. And I do not comment here what Avangard or Amur are doing. Not my business.

    I just say that we should analyze the situation before writing something on the topic.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  4. rohky Registered User

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    1. As I thought, Teemu Hartikainen stays in Ufa.



    2. Lukas Radil is back to the KHL and signed with Spartak. Can anyone let me know a bit more about him? I know he played some games in the NHL and AHL. How important he could be for Spartak?
     
  5. rohky Registered User

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    Is it true Juho Lammikko is heading to the KHL? Lammiko used to play in the NHL, AHL and Liiga.
     
  6. aonb Registered User

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    Yep, just signed to a one year contract with Magnitka

    Magnitka also traded Bereglazov and Kablukov to Omsk for Taylor Beck and some money. Good for them. Bereglazov is a D you can throw in to a 3rd pair, and that's it. Kablukov got 3 points (no goals) in 48 games with SKA getting nearly the same TOI as Kagarlitsky.

    Speaking of Kaga, I'm happy about his return to Dynamo.
     
  7. SoundAndFury Registered User

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    Well Magntika said 1,5 ago they are in talks with "young Liiga's top scorer" so this was in the works for a long, long time I guess.

    Regarding the trade, I'd say Omsk is a clear winner. They wanted to get rid of Beck and got a very solid bottom-6 center (a quite important position) and NT-caliber D (on a good day) for him. So 2 guys who have played for Russian NT at WC level for the import they wanted to get rid of anyway and would have had to pay money to do so.

    Kablukov's point production is kind of the redundant point, he wasn't there to produce and nobody plays for SKA for 7 years for no reason. Guy has 2 cups and Olympic gold. The same goes for Bereglazov, surely his last season was dumpster fire but whose on Magnitka wasn't. The guy is barely 26 and was one of the league's most promising young Ds not that long ago.
     
  8. rohky Registered User

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    Valeri Bragin heading up the national team and SKA. Will the coach handle it? I always doubt in combining functions - team coach and national team coach.
     
  9. Witte49 Registered User

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    Yakupov to Amur. Maybe this slight obscurity will be good for him. If he stays.
     
  10. Atas2000 Registered User

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    Not far to Edmonton from there. His world tour is probably not what he expected from his career.
     
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  11. Anthony5967 Registered User

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    Big Rangers fan. However, I'm a big KHL guy, too. I love hockey. What is going on with SKA? It seems like they're going through a transition period. Guys like Kovalchuk, Dadonov, Gusev, Shipachyov are all gone now, so they tried tinkering a bit last couple of years and haven't been as impressive. Bragin is coming in now, and it seems like they're going through coaches left and right if I'm not mistaken. Things just seem odd over there right now. Thoughts?
     
  12. Barclay Donaldson Registered User

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    Transition is putting it mildly. They went from being in a league of their own with their own financial and operational rules to having to play fair under the cap. That would cause major ripples for anyone. But the situation will calm down once their new arena is completed and their finances hopefully become less reliant upon Gazprom’s charity.
     
  13. SoundAndFury Registered User

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    Of course the salary cap has forced them into making a whole lot of changes this summer but before that, I wouldn't say there was anything special about their activities.

    Players leaving to the NHL are inevitably going to happen and even of those you have listed, none did leave at the same time. I mean there is a 2 year gap between Dadonov and Gusev. It's just the way SKA has chosen to operate, much like how they hold rights for most of the Russian guys still in NA now. Basically they went "there is no way to avoid losing players to NHL but all the distribution of those locally are going to go through us". They will be able to decide if they keep the guys who want to come back to the K (like Soshnikov who has never played a game in SKA system and yet Salavat had to trade Tkachyov for him) or let them go elsewhere. And same applies to the current team, everyone understands Podkolzin, Marchenko, Morozov, Kuzmenko are only there for 2-3 more years, at best.

    Regarding the past results, CSKA and SKA were always going to in their own 2 horse race and CSKA had the upper hand now with Kaprizov, Grigorenko, Sorokin. High-end Russian players are few and far between and SKA have missed with their picks. Datsyuk didn't really deliver for the role, Yakupov was slotted as Dadonov's replacement and was virtually useless. But if Kaprizov and Sorokin leave it will once again reset the playing field and SKA already lured Vey over to them. CSKA is currently going through a bigger shock than SKA ever did, especially if Grigorenko leaves as well. SKA, for the most part, was in the situation where they have to replace 1 top player per season, CSKA are in the situation where they will be without entire first line.

    And yes, they didn't have a lot of success with coaches post-Znarok (although Kudashov's results last year were by no means bad) but at the same time, it might seem odd for an NHL fan, but "a new season - a new coach" practice is rather common in the KHL. SKA managed to avoid mid-season firings which is, in itself, a sign of relative stability.

    I think they need to add a high-end right wing (maybe ditch Kemppainen to do it) but other than that, they are a perfectly well-built team. At this point, it's 2 tiers above what CSKA currently has.

    Not exactly sure how the arena is impacting them in any way. It's not like money is, was, or would ever be a concern for them. The salary cap isn't adjusted to the seats in the arena either so :huh: Pretty irrelevant to their fortunes on ice if you asked me. You know as well as I do every Russian team is reliant on someone's charity and they see no issue with it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
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  14. Barclay Donaldson Registered User

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    I would think nearly doubling their ticket revenue, in the situation they sell out, would be a pretty good increase in non-sponsorship revenue, no? Perhaps then Gazprom can then shift that sponsorship money to other teams that need it. I know they own several other teams including HC Sochi.
     
  15. vorky @vorkywh24

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    Are you sure that OAO Gazprom is the owner of HK Sochi?
     
  16. Barclay Donaldson Registered User

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    They were last time I checked after taking on the majority role from the regional government. Check out the articles from 2015 regarding the legal battle the players had with them over not being paid. I haven't seen a change in ownership/sponsorship since then. I would have thought you know this.
     
  17. vorky @vorkywh24

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    So, that is your opinion. And it is fine you have an opinion. I believe it would not be any problem for you to provide all of us with the prove. By the prove I mean the data from the Russian Company Register (ЕГРЮЛ) updated to today.

    Just saying, sponsorship =/= ownership

    Just for curiosity, I can not see a logo of OAO Gazprom among HK Sochi sponsors at their official website. Can you give us a print-screen of their website with OAO Gazprom logo as a sponsor of the team?
     
  18. Caser @RUSProspects

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    I think you might be confusing something, because Sochi are sponsored by Russian Railways for quite some time now. As for Gazprom, they are sponsoring SKA and Avangard.
     
  19. Barclay Donaldson Registered User

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    https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/khl-s-hc-sochi-players-in-legal-battle-for-pay-1.3072794
    https://www.si.com/nhl/2015/04/09/ap-hko-khl-sochi
    Sochi hockey team thriving a year after Winter Olympics | Federal News Network
    A year after Olympics, pro hockey team thriving in subtropical Sochi

    You're saying sponsorship does not mean ownership? Don't you understand when you fund the team, that is the same thing. As of 5 years ago, they were responsible for running the team along with the local government. That is ownership. There has been nothing that has come out that shows otherwise, or a change in ownership/sponsorship. And only the official KHL mouthpiece could say that the owner of the team would have their logo on the team's website. Half the KHL team sites don't have their sponsorship logos listed! Check out the links. They're all more reliable and accurate than the waste that comes out of "All Teeth, No Beard."


    https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/khl-s-hc-sochi-players-in-legal-battle-for-pay-1.3072794
    https://www.si.com/nhl/2015/04/09/ap-hko-khl-sochi
    Sochi hockey team thriving a year after Winter Olympics | Federal News Network
    A year after Olympics, pro hockey team thriving in subtropical Sochi

    I see no relation between Russian Railways and HC Sochi. I do see a relation between Loko and Russian Railways. But there are no articles that link Russian Railways running the HC Sochi. I have found many articles, including but not limited to the ones above, that say Gazprom is with HC Sochi. Unless you have anything that shows otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  20. vorky @vorkywh24

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    I requested the data from the Russian Company Register (ЕГРЮЛ) and surprisingly or perhaps unsurprisingly these data have not been presented by the poster even though it might take less than five minutes to get them!
     
  21. vorky @vorkywh24

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    Ad the bold part
    [​IMG]

    And now your homework is to find out if ОАО «РЖД» is the HK Sochi owner. Good luck!
     
  22. Caser @RUSProspects

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    I googled a bit more and I see that indeed until 2015 Gazprom was among the sponsors (at least according to championat), but now it's definitely Russian Railways, pretty official now. Google tells me that apparently it has been that way at least since 2016/17.
     
  23. SoundAndFury Registered User

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    I mean Gazprom are like godfathers of the league. It was their money that bailed out Spartak and merged Atlant with it (despite having no direct ties to either one, in theory) and this SKA - Sochi farm team relationship would indicate they are definitely involved with Sochi at some level, especially considering the ties in the past.

    Also vorky, I genuinely don't know if you that naive or just trolling. If you could retrospectively explain what has happened around the league over the years by using "official data" I would put some kind of weight in it. But as of now, we live in the world, where even player loan officially doesn't exist.

    Lastly, no idea why should every thread be turned into this pointless bickering over who owns or does what. What Barclay Donaldson said was correct, Gazprom money will inevitably trickle down somewhere. What's the point of flooding the thread for 2 pages over the hypothetical team he mentioned?
     
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  24. vorky @vorkywh24

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    I just prefer when an argument of any kind is supported by official information or official statement. Of course, the poster might speculate on his own, present his own vision of the situation, but I prefer the facts to be confirmed by official information or official statement, the remaining part might be the poster´s speculation/interpretation, I am fine with it.

    Since I was not able to confirm the poster´s statement "I know they (OAO Gazprom - added by me to get the point) own (now - adding by myself) several other teams including HC Sochi." So, I simply asked for confirmation of the fact. As simple as that.
     
  25. Caser @RUSProspects

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    I personally just don't think it is a good idea to oversimplify it that way, because money and influence/connections don't always go hand in hand here in a classical way at least.

    As I've mentioned, both SKA and Avangard are Gazprom's teams, but that doesn't mean they're affiliated. On the other hand, Sochi/SKA unofficial affiliation is more connection based, which makes some sense, as Sochi benefits from it much more even without the Gazprom money. Different case is Vityaz though, as iirc, indeed a Gazprom's subsidiary was among their sponsors.
     

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