KHL Trades, Rumors and Free Agent Talk Part 6

[Lambo]

Nice to see that Jori Lehterä is back on Top-Level. After so much cruel years.

 

[aonb]

I'm not sure if VHL is a good place for Pavel Varfolomeyev

 

[Exarz]

Edit: Sochi appears to be the answer where he is supposed to replace Lassinantti who was one of the more unexpected transfer flops in recent memory.

Lassinantti is rumoured to continue his career in Kunlun

 

[SoundAndFury]

I'm not sure if VHL is a good place for Pavel Varfolomeyev

He kinda exhausted all his KHL options...

Lassinantti is rumoured to continue his career in Kunlun

Hmm. That doesn't make too much sense honestly, goalies appear to be the least of Kunlun's worries.

 

[SoundAndFury]

That doesn't make too much sense honestly, goalies appear to be the least of Kunlun's worries.

Or so I thought... In a surprising move Avangard sign Hrubec. At the same time it means they will finally move Bobkov. I hope, at least.

 

[Atas2000]

Or so I thought... In a surprising move Avangard sign Hrubec. At the same time it means they will finally move Bobkov. I hope, at least.

The word is they are moving Garipov actually.

 

[SoundAndFury]

The word is they are moving Garipov actually.

Hmm, even more interesting. I wonder, since Ava's GM said "mental strength" is one of the key reasons they got Hrubec, I wonder if this is a knee-jerk reaction to the recent OT losses and Garipov throwing a bit of a temper tantrum or was he simply easier to move.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Ivan Vishnevsky goes from playing in the conference final, to being #1D for Avto, to playing for Lada in the VHL. Probably a stepping stone for KHL return but still, one of the more obvious cap casualties so to say.

 

[cska78]

I am wondering how we fit Soshnikov in the cap, Naumenkov is likely a cheaper player and CSKA were right at the cap I thought...oh Russia...

 

[Atas2000]

I am wondering how we fit Soshnikov in the cap, Naumenkov is likely a cheaper player and CSKA were right at the cap I thought...oh Russia...

What oh Russia? Too many russophobic articles read today?

It's not said Naumenkov was making significantly less or even not less money. The no-cap-era actually produced quite a few weird contracts and despite all the ignorant babble about Naumenkov lately he was actually pretty good. It would not surprise me if he had a lofty contract with CSKA. Also Soshnikov just signed a new contract with CSKA. He wanted out badly, so why wouldn't he take a discount, even if it is a small one?

I don't see an obvious issue here. They moved out one roster player for one roster player they got back. And just read the post above yours. There are quite a few cap casualties. Players do understand they have to take dicounts if they want to play, especially if they want to play on the teams they want to play on.

edit: rumor has it Soshnikov signed for 25 Mil. That's cheap, so...

 

[Atas2000]

I am wondering how we fit Soshnikov in the cap, Naumenkov is likely a cheaper player and CSKA were right at the cap I thought...oh Russia...

And you have been heard in Russia.

Новый рейтинг зарплат КХЛ. 85 самых дорогих хоккеистов лиги

Enjoy.

 

[cska78]

What oh Russia? Too many russophobic articles read today?

It's not said Naumenkov was making significantly less or even not less money. The no-cap-era actually produced quite a few weird contracts and despite all the ignorant babble about Naumenkov lately he was actually pretty good. It would not surprise me if he had a lofty contract with CSKA. Also Soshnikov just signed a new contract with CSKA. He wanted out badly, so why wouldn't he take a discount, even if it is a small one?

I don't see an obvious issue here. They moved out one roster player for one roster player they got back. And just read the post above yours. There are quite a few cap casualties. Players do understand they have to take dicounts if they want to play, especially if they want to play on the teams they want to play on.

edit: rumor has it Soshnikov signed for 25 Mil. That's cheap, so...

on what ground was his current contract changed??? I don't read russophobic articles, I just know how things are done.

 

[Atas2000]

on what ground was his current contract changed??? I don't read russophobic articles, I just know how things are done.

You should know it is dangerous to "know" things. Most sterertypes exist only because of people "knowing" how things are done. And you can't tell them otherwise, because they know.

And you should actually know NHL's CBA does not work in the KHL. Contracts in the KHL are not as rigid as in the NHL. Contracts termination and changes are common practice.

 

[SoundAndFury]

on what ground was his current contract changed??? I don't read russophobic articles, I just know how things are done.

"Extension". In other words, they probably matched Naumenkov's contract (25 mil sounds about right) and then gave like 2 times that in bonuses.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Krikunov is saying they need improvement in goal. One of Ava's goalies seems like an obvious answer?

But that's another thing about the KHL "cap". If it was actually functioning, Ava would be insane to carry those 3 goalies because it's a waste of cap space at its finest. Yet it seems they are in no rush, absolutely happy to have them.

 

[vorky]

Krikunov is saying they need improvement in goal. One of Ava's goalies seems like an obvious answer?

But that's another thing about the KHL "cap". If it was actually functioning, Ava would be insane to carry those 3 goalies because it's a waste of cap space at its finest. Yet it seems they are in no rush, absolutely happy to have them.

It is not that easy.

We know neither their basic salary nor contract´s structure (basic salary + individual/team bonus + team bonus for making conference final). All we know is that a 20% of individual & team bonus is not counted in the cap. It does not make any sense (if taking into account the cap issues) to give a player an individual/team bonus over 20% of his basic salary. So, real spending counted towards the cap can reach 1.26 billion rubles per team.

We also know that a team bonus for making conference final is not counted, but that bonus is not guaranteed to anybody.

We do not have exact data on contracts. Sport-Express has Bobkov with 50 million in their list, so both Garipov/Hrubec need to be below 45 million. I would say it is around 20 million. That is a basic salary of your 3rd liner at best.

Sport-Express claims, "at the beginning of October several strong foreigners with NHL contracts were ready to play in the KHL. But top KHL clubs did not have a free cap space of around 50-60 million to hire them." I hope you will agree that some 60 million would not be any problem for SKA, Avangard, CSKA etc but they simply did not have cap space. If there was not this new cap mechanism, the rich would hire one or two NHLers per team.

If Hrubec/Soshnikov had some contract with sum X, they do not have the same X sum in their contract in December. Half of their original deals is already paid (by previous clubs).

But yeah, every system has loopholes, even NHL´s. For example Tavares, his basic salary is 900.000, the league´s minimum?? While his bonus is 11 million. How so? All fine with a fair approach by rich clubs?

 

[Atas2000]

Krikunov is saying they need improvement in goal. One of Ava's goalies seems like an obvious answer?

But that's another thing about the KHL "cap". If it was actually functioning, Ava would be insane to carry those 3 goalies because it's a waste of cap space at its finest. Yet it seems they are in no rush, absolutely happy to have them.

They are in no rush from the cap perspective. They can't have all three in the lineup anyway, so what's the cap issue? It's obvious they need to move out one. Newest rumors are again about Bobkov. I think you crusade against the KHL cap is misguided. It is what it is and it works. How? In your post. Dynamo will have trouble accomodating anyone with a big contract like an Avangard goalie. It is very obvious why they are where they are. They are overpaying their top players(while Shipachyov might be the only one worth that much in the league) and can't afford a suporting cast. A perfect example of a one-line-team. It doesn't help that their top line is the best in the league.

 

[SoundAndFury]

A perfect example of a one-line-team.

I really enjoy not getting into discussions with you over nothing but come on, you just advocated SYu trading Soshnikov which definitely makes them one line team (plus Larsen) even more than they were yet crap on Dinamo when they have one of the best 2nd lines on paper.

I did the math just for the sake of it, their 2nd line (Kagarlitsky-Lindberg-Pulkinnen) average 0.65 PPG. That's 40 points on the season. They would be top scorers on half of the KHL teams. Boy, do you bark at the wrong tree sometimes.

 

[Atas2000]

I really enjoy not getting into discussions with you over nothing but come on, you just advocated SYu trading Soshnikov which definitely makes them one line team (plus Larsen) even more than they were yet crap on Dinamo when they have one of the best 2nd lines on paper.

I did the math just for the sake of it, their 2nd line (Kagarlitsky-Lindberg-Pulkinnen) average 0.65 PPG. That's 40 points on the season. They would be top scorers on half of the KHL teams. Boy, do you bark at the wrong tree sometimes.

SYu is a one line team? Obviously their top line is coring a lot, but it doesn't mean they are a one line team. As opposed to SKA's depth of course the "loss" of Amirov due to WJC might actually hurt them but Kugryshev, Kadeikin, Vorobiev, Amirov provided them with enough secondary scoring. Dynamo got rid of Pulkkinen because he couldn't find a place in Krikunov's heart too.

"Top scorers on half the teams" is not really true and should not come from someone who knows the KHL as you do. Half the teams aren't competing for the Cup. Dynamo(at least in their own opinion) does. We are talking about how a contending team should look like in the KHL. And Dynamo is obviously very top-heavy with a problem in goal. It is also not about points alone as in the KHL with games against bottom feeders it is sometimes hard to determine whether points come from more or less valuable production. I am for example not at all happy with Dawes so far, because scoring hat-tricks against weak teams is one thing, being invisible in clutch games is another. He has exactly 1 point all season against any of the top6 teams in the league. Empty netter against SYu IIRC. Is he scoring at a pace that looks okay and top line worthy given his status and contract? On paper - yes. On paper or not, Dynamos secondary offfence loses out against other top teams. In different ways. AkBars for example has a lot of secondary and tertiary scoring through depth, so it's fine, even if Dawes is not the league leading scorer.

And I never "advocated" the Soshnikov trade. It was a forced one. You can't hold a player who does not want to play for your team. I simply don't agree with underrating Naumenkov in this trade. It's not like SYu did not get anything in return. And improving their D while losing a top6 forward who did not want to stay is not as terrible as some people picture it.

 

[SoundAndFury]

So CSKA banishes Goldobin to Amur, reportedly. Pretty saucy. I guess they are one team cap does have some kind of impact on.

 

[vorky]

So, Alexei Morozov confirmed what I said to @SoundAndFury. Here are the words by Morozov

-the league is using an online database/system where you can see all things regarding the salary cap for your team, what is counted and not counted towards the cap, how would your cap situation look like if you sign X player.

-league CIB employees consult all teams all the time, especially those being close to the ceiling. All trades are consulted with those employees before the trades happen. So, to avoid a situation when the trade would not be approved by the league because a team would be over the ceiling.

-Morozov confirms that all teams are below the ceiling, he adds "I know that it is complicated for unprofessionals to understand all details of the reglement (cap rules). Hence we read in media that this or that team is over the ceiling."

-He does not say what their salary is but using Yakupov & Soshinkov as an example. So, a player has 60M deal at the beginning of a season. He is traded mid-season, so just his remaining salary (not 60M as at the start of a season) is paid by his new teams and so counted towards the cap of his new team.

Here I agree with Erykalov saying that the league should release their cap database on the website. Anybody would see the cap situation online. But, big but. I do not know any league in the globe doing it! Even the NHL does not publish salaries on the league´s website. They do not even publish the contracts´ length on the league´s website. For example, the KHL is doing it.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Wow, the president of the league says he isn't actually allowing to break the rules? Shocking.

 

[Atas2000]

Wow, the president of the league says he isn't actually allowing to break the rules? Shocking.

So you will allow me to not believe one word coming from NHL officials just based on the fact it is coming from NHL officials?

This is worst stance ever. "Whatever they say I don't believe, because reasons".

CSKA has no cap issues. Period. Just like all other teams. They have cut a lot of contracts to fit under the cap. And Goldobin is just an odd man out and he is better off playing on a worse team. Believe it ot not, this guy is worse than Mamin he played together with in their WJC. Far worse. CHL/AHL vs. MHL/AHL/KHL all over.

 

[SoundAndFury]

So you will allow me to not believe one word coming from NHL officials just based on the fact it is coming from NHL officials?

This is worst stance ever. "Whatever they say I don't believe, because reasons".

Let's get this out of the way once and for all: I never said the KHL teams are breaking the rules; I said the cap is shit and doesn't work properly. Which is true to me. It's true to many other people. You can have your opinion.

And yes, I think the information confirmed by 3rd parties is way more reliable. That's not exactly shocking exploration either. NHL brass aren't saints either. Not everything is NHL vs. KHL or Russia vs. Western world. Snap out of that narrative.

 

[vorky]

Let's get this out of the way once and for all: I never said the KHL teams are breaking the rules; I said the cap is shit and doesn't work properly. Which is true to me. It's true to many other people. You can have your opinion.

And yes, I think the information confirmed by 3rd parties is way more reliable. That's not exactly shocking exploration either. NHL brass aren't saints either. Not everything is NHL vs. KHL or Russia vs. Western world. Snap out of that narrative.

So, what do you expect from the salary cap in the first season?