KHL Expansion part II

[vorky]

I am always fascinated by Jussi´s mysterious analysis. Eisbaren is one of a few (5-6) euro clubs which needs KHL as hell, not to lose its position in future. We will see, I dont know when Eisbaren joins KHL if you want to ask me.

 

[loppa*]

yes, gazprom has bought serbian oil company and then they became a general sponsor of red star belgrade football club and reportedly paying around 6m euros per year fot that. i would imagine that rosneft might invest even more money in medveščak since, well, they play a russian league.

They're throwing money away aimlessly into Zvezda. It's comparing apples and oranges though. Most zvezda clubs are comprised of domestic folk ya know.

only time will tell, but it's hard to imagine any of them could sellout 15200 seat arena 7 games in a row anytime soon.

It's hard to imagine that in Zagreb too. But Minsk has done that kind of stuff ya know.
Attendance levels have slowly risen in Russia though. Give it time, nothing happens over night, the KHL is still in its very early years.

dunno, i saw many Согаз, МегаФон and other cyrillic billboards all around dom sportova. the fact that 1000 people in vukovar, who lost their family members during serbian agression, protest because of cyrillic denotements, it doesn't mean orthodoxy and cyrillic are unwelcome things in croatia in general.


besides, iirc, there was/is a waffen ss monument somwhere in latvia and it didn't prevent dinamo riga to become an important memeber of the khl.

Riga is owned by russians and pro-russian latvians if I am not mistaken? I don't know for sure though, I don't follow them. On the other hand, Riga is a rather developed hockey country, unlike Croatia. Hence all those factors add in. The Latvians can produce domestic talent.

Other point - even though the 1990s are long gone, the politics and ideology has not died away. It did not die away during the communist era, and it certainly is not gone now. It is alive and rumbling. The croat people finally kicked out that crazy party, but they can't undo what they did for some 20 years.

Nonetheless, Medvescak plays a very important role right now, in my opinion... it sets and example like Poprad did.

 

[billy piton]

They're throwing money away aimlessly into Zvezda. It's comparing apples and oranges though. Most zvezda clubs are comprised of domestic folk ya know.

it doesn't really matter who play for the team ,the thing that matter is who is waching it. and medveščak is by far the most wached pro team in croata (totals and averages).

It's hard to imagine that in Zagreb too. But Minsk has done that kind of stuff ya know.

medveščak actually already did it even in lesser league:
http://www.monitor.hr/vijesti/na-sedam-utakmica-medvescaka-u-areni-105-000-navijaca/190281/

dinamo minsk is only one out of 28 teams.

Attendance levels have slowly risen in Russia though. Give it time, nothing happens over night, the KHL is still in its very early years.

the key word is slowly and zagreb already has it.

Riga is owned by russians and pro-russian latvians if I am not mistaken? I don't know for sure though, I don't follow them. On the other hand, Riga is a rather developed hockey country, unlike Croatia. Hence all those factors add in. The Latvians can produce domestic talent.

and medveščak is own by some bunch of anti russian guys? medveščak's president damir gojanović lived in russia during 90's, and he basically put the ice rink in arena pula in the mid summer just to give khl president an opportunity to play hockey in 2000 year old roman amphitheatre.

producing domestic talent doesn't have anything with professional sports. i mean it's not like that vladivostok produced many great players so they deserved khl franchise.

Other point - even though the 1990s are long gone, the politics and ideology has not died away. It did not die away during the communist era, and it certainly is not gone now. It is alive and rumbling. The croat people finally kicked out that crazy party, but they can't undo what they did for some 20 years..

actually, the party has started here:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdU6ngDhrAA

Nonetheless, Medvescak plays a very important role right now, in my opinion... it sets and example like Poprad did.

there are some significant differences between zagreb and poprad. zagreb is about 20times bigger, has 15200 seat arena (which looks nice on the khl wiki site) it is capital of 4.5m country and it is pretty much hockey mad (by european standards).

of course, it doesn't guarantee that medveščak will be in the khl five or ten years from now, but i don't think it is just a stopgap like poprad was. of course, if fans interest drop significantly there will be no khl in zagreb anymore, but so far, i don't see many signs of that happening.

 

[vorky]

there are some significant differences between zagreb and poprad. zagreb is about 20times bigger, has 15200 seat arena (which looks nice on the khl wiki site) it is capital of 4.5m country and it is pretty much hockey mad (by european standards).

of course, it doesn't guarantee that medveÅ¡čak will be in the khl five or ten years from now, but i don't think it is just a stopgap like poprad was. of course, if fans interest drop significantly there will be no khl in zagreb anymore, but so far, i don't see many signs of that happening.

agree. I would add one more important point. NOW KHL can choose what euro clubs wants and what not. It was not like that in Poprad case.

 

[Latgale_fan]

besides, iirc, there was/is a waffen ss monument somwhere in latvia

???
By that you probably mean Lestene cemetary for Latvian legionnaires in Waffen SS uniform... Wouldn't call cemetary a ''monument''....

 

[Peter25]

???
By that you probably mean Lestene cemetary for Latvian legionnaires in Waffen SS uniform... Wouldn't call cemetary a ''monument''....

He meant this: http://en.ria.ru/world/20120917/176013398.html

About a year ago there was a monument unveiled in honor/memory of Latvian soldiers who fought in the Latvian Waffen SS legion during the WWII.

 

[billy piton]

He meant this: http://en.ria.ru/world/20120917/176013398.html

About a year ago there was a monument unveiled in honor/memory of Latvian soldiers who fought in the Latvian Waffen SS legion during the WWII.

I think Estonia has similar monuments as well. The Estonians did a good job of cleaning their Jews during the WWII. Estonia, I believe, was the only completely judenfrei country at that time in Europe. Estonia is still proud of this great achievement and honors their Waffen SS legionnaires.

exactly. and iirc, there were also some nazi monument issues before latvia joined eu.

 

[Pominville Knows]

One thing that is interesting about Zagreb is that it's in a country that is probably not all that seduced by the NHL as say Sweden and Finland mainly are, but also the Czech Republic and Slovakia to some extent. Having fans really believing that the KHL is both the beginning and the end of club hockey in Europe sends me thinking about the spectator numbers in Germany and Switzerland, that even though those leagues are hardly top notch even in Europe people come in mass to follow them.

 

[jaco]

One thing that is interesting about Zagreb is that it's in a country that is probably not all that seduced by the NHL as say Sweden and Finland mainly are, but also the Czech Republic and Slovakia to some extent. Having fans really believing that the KHL is both the beginning and the end of club hockey in Europe sends me thinking about the spectator numbers in Germany and Switzerland, that even though those leagues are hardly top notch even in Europe people come in mass to follow them.

I disagree. NLA certainly is top notch in Europe. At least as far as hockey is concerned. I'd rate them as n°2 in Europe, and the gap between KHL and NLA isn't all that big.

 

[Vicente]

One thing that is interesting about Zagreb is that it's in a country that is probably not all that seduced by the NHL as say Sweden and Finland mainly are, but also the Czech Republic and Slovakia to some extent. Having fans really believing that the KHL is both the beginning and the end of club hockey in Europe sends me thinking about the spectator numbers in Germany and Switzerland, that even though those leagues are hardly top notch even in Europe people come in mass to follow them.

NLA is almost as strong as KHL and far surperior to SHL while DEL is more or less at the same playing level as SHL. And both NLA and DEL have better attendance than KHL and SHL.

 

[ult]

NLA is almost as strong as KHL and far surperior to SHL while DEL is more or less at the same playing level as SHL. And both NLA and DEL have better attendance than KHL and SHL.

Almost as strong as KHL, that's why Avto and Kuznya crushed everyone there during this preseason. And it's not the results I'm talking about. I was left very underwhelmed by NLA teams performances. NLA is overrated, and all because of Zurich's success a long time ago. Sure, it's a good league, one of the top 5 for sure. But I don't know on what basis you're saying that they're far superior to Swedes...

 

[Jussi]

NLA is almost as strong as KHL and far surperior to SHL while DEL is more or less at the same playing level as SHL. And both NLA and DEL have better attendance than KHL and SHL.

Don't mix a couple of good teams(Zürich and Bern) as representing the whole quality of the league. SHL has the edge in overall depth. Same goes for 1üga.

 

[jaco]

: that's why Avto and Kuznya crushed everyone there during this preseason.

Avto - Biel 3-2
Biel - Avto 3-3
Lausanne - Kuznya 2-3
Kuznya - Geneva 3-2
Kuznya - Biel 2-5
Ambrì - Kuznya 2-3
Fribourg - Kuznya 2-3

I wouldn't call that "crushed everyone there".... Being Biel and Avto two bottom dwellers in their leagues, I'd say there isn't that much of a gap.

 

[Vicente]

Almost as strong as KHL, that's why Avto and Kuznya crushed everyone there during this preseason. And it's not the results I'm talking about. I was left very underwhelmed by NLA teams performances. NLA is overrated, and all because of Zurich's success a long time ago. Sure, it's a good league, one of the top 5 for sure. But I don't know on what basis you're saying that they're far superior to Swedes...

Wow. Close results against middle-class NLA teams?

And Swedish league is completely watered down with all good players going to NA.

 

[Vicente]

Don't mix a couple of good teams(Zürich and Bern) as representing the whole quality of the league. SHL has the edge in overall depth. Same goes for 1üga.

But the Finnish league is really getting weaker every year with players leaving for Russia at first chance. They even reached DEL level or worse by now.

 

[ult]

Wow. Close results against middle-class NLA teams?

And Swedish league is completely watered down with all good players going to NA.

Exactly. Middle-class. There are more top-class KHL teams than there are teams in total in NLA. I can name 12 who won't have any problems with any of the NLA teams. And then there is a level above, like Dynamo or SKA.

 

[loppa*]

@ Billy, to address a few things...

- Yes, Minsk is such an example, but the reason why is because they have such an arena. Their previous arena was quite small. Hockey infrastructure in the former USSR is nowhere near its potential, so we will see more of that. We take for example SKA attendance in 2000 er so, and today... it used to be almost empty, now it's all full. There are such trends, but it takes a) time, and b) more time to build infrastructure.

- True, zagreb has that, but I do not see that being a unique thing to them in the future. That is why I said that I feel that their presence at this moment is a good thing. But, in the future I do not see their presence as good.

- I think that domestic talent does have some effect. I see that as a main reason why there aren't (and won't be) teams in the KHL from Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia, etc...

- Very nice that you pulled up that speech from 1989, too bad you didn't actually listen to it. Look into it, http://www.hirhome.com/yugo/bbc_milosevic.htm , do a search for the paragraph that starts out with, "Serbia has never had only Serbs living in it.", and see the following paragraph too. It's miles away from the xenophobia that was transmitted by others.

of course, it doesn't guarantee that medveÅ¡čak will be in the khl five or ten years from now, but i don't think it is just a stopgap like poprad was. of course, if fans interest drop significantly there will be no khl in zagreb anymore, but so far, i don't see many signs of that happening.

Well we will see. i will bet you one virtual beer on this, that within five years they will be gone. )
Keep in mind, people like to see their home team win, not lose.

 

[Jussi]

But the Finnish league is really getting weaker every year with players leaving for Russia at first chance. They even reached DEL level or worse by now.

Top 6-8 teams still keep the overall level above the rest.

 

[Pominville Knows]

NLA is almost as strong as KHL and far surperior to SHL while DEL is more or less at the same playing level as SHL. And both NLA and DEL have better attendance than KHL and SHL.

Yeah i think it's great you guys keep believing so, that as a matter of fact was what i was talking about. Even though most of your star players are north american leftovers and others are Linus Omark's and Calle Ridderwall's that tears the leagues to shreads. Keep packing those arenas for the greatest sport on earth!

 

[Sokil]

Riga is owned by russians and pro-russian latvians if I am not mistaken? I don't know for sure though, I don't follow them.

Guntis Ulmanis, Aigars Kalvītis, Juris Savickis

owned by no russians.

Ulmanis is anti-Russian (family was exiled by Soviets, his policy kicked Russian troops out when he became president),

Kalvitis is also not pro-Russian by any show of his political alignment (pro-Latvian)

 

[robwangjing]

KHL is in Norway! A Norwegian team can become a reality if they come to an agreement with NIHF(Norwegian ice hockey federation). Hockeynytt.no will come with more info later tonight.

Reads the text on this twitter.

https://twitter.com/Hockeynytt1/statuses/382848167857115136

And on their facebook they say pretty much the same.

https://www.facebook.com/Hockeynytt/posts/712284362132727

Anyone heard something more of this? In Russian media perhaps?

 

[vorky]

I like the idea if true. If this happens, it will be interesting to follow swedish hockey federation. Having KHL team in Finland/Norway is not the best scenario for Sweden. On the other hand, if true, Sweden will have what they want.

 

[Pominville Knows]

I like the idea if true. If this happens, it will be interesting to follow swedish hockey federation. Having KHL team in Finland/Norway is not the best scenario for Sweden. On the other hand, if true, Sweden will have what they want.

Sounds great! For me it would be just as close to travel to Oslo as Stockholm.

 

[RicEsteban85]

So, as I understand from their facebook post they want to create a new club in Norway that will join KHL in 14/15 ?!

 

[vorky]

So, as I understand from their facebook post they want to create a new club in Norway that will join KHL in 14/15 ?!

That is not sure yet. More meetings tommorow.