Player Discussion Kevin Hayes

[haveandare]

Why are people going after RB for bringing up the Hank issue?

Hank already hurt the rebuild last season. People here are upset they got Kravtsov instead of Dahlin, Svechnikov, Zadina, Hughes, Boqvist, etc? Thank the goalie. What did the Rangers gain from Hank having a great season?

The guy wants to stay because he wants to be a Ranger for his whole career, and this is where his life has been for nearly 15 years. That adds to a tough situation, but lets stop with the sentimental attitudes. He's a hockey player on a team we are fans of. No player is bigger than the club. Absolutely no untouchables. Lundqvist staying doesn't help the Rangers. By the time the team is ready to contend, he'll be severely declined as a hockey player. He also doesn't like the rebuild. Its clear from his body language, and how he frames his answers.

The Rangers should try to push him out. The problem is that I'm not sure they can get anyone to take his contract. They'd probably have to eat 50% of it. Might be worth it for him to not ruin the rebuild further. Hank is a thing of the past with the Rangers. He's an expensive placeholder, just like Staal is. Its unfortunate. Great career for the club, but so did McDonagh, Girardi, Staal, Nash. They were part of the last generation of the team. Gorton is trying to rebuild with a new generation. The writing was on the wall for Hank years ago that he was cooked under the Gorton regime. His plan doesn't align with Gorton's. He's here simply because he doesn't want to leave. Gorton would've had him out the door by now, if he had his own choice.

Because he’s misusing an article that actually says the opposite of what he’s trying to use it to say?

Hank is perfect for the rebuild at this point. He’s not stealing game after game anymore, he helps stop then from a buffalo and Ottawa situation where nobody cares about winning, and he will help lure his replacement over next year.

We didn’t pick a higher player because we didn’t do well in the lottery. You can’t suck your way into a guaranteed top pick anymore.

And yeah force Hank out then let’s see how eager shestyorkin is to come over when we forced out our best goalie ever who also happens to be his idol so we could have slightly better odds at a higher pick one year.

 

[haveandare]

I am glad I waited until this morning to pop in. The overreactions have been glorious to read.

People who wanted a ground up rebuild - you have it. Management is doing what they can to make Hayes the most movable. You have been asking for this for years. You don't get to complain. If you don't like how it is going, then lesson learned - be careful what you wish for.

Signing Hayes to a 1 year deal is not indicative as to what management thinks of Andersson and Chytil. It means they have Zibanejad as the 1C. They are going to give Andersson and Chytil opportunities to play this year. If they aren't ready, Namestnikov will be thrown in the 2C spot. They have no intentions on being competitive this season so Names in that spot really isn't anything that can be argued. If we were attempting to be competitive, then yes I have serious concerns.

The 1 year deal likely means that management has tried to move Hayes, was underwhelmed with the return and believed he would be easiest to move during the season on a 1 year deal. If Hayes lights it up this year and is playing at a 60 point pace, he will command a lot at the deadline. If he doesn't play well, he is still movable but as 3C value instead of a 2C. If they sign him to a big deal and he comes in like Brendan Smith and plays like ass, he is not movable. The extra reward for having him already signed is not worth the risk.

The 1 year deal is easily the best choice in this scenario. The only way this becomes a failure is if they let him walk for nothing. Considering Gorton sold big time at the last deadline, I can't imagine Hayes not being moved.

I like Hayes. One of my favorite Rangers. But as I said above, it is clear we are doing a complete rebuild. I liked our core. I thought a quick retool would have been fine. I wanted us to win a cup with Lundqvist in goal. It is likely not happening. Our core is being dismantled and I now have two options - A. sit here and complain for the next three years or B. get on board and accept things that are out of my control. Reminds me of the dilemma from My Cousin Vinny "This is a tough decision here, get my ass kicked or collect $200". Much like Vincent Gambini, I'm going with option B.

It’s definitely indicative of what they think of Chytil and Andersson. Hayes was never maybe slotting in at 1C and without him the team has one actual center. One. Namestnikov isn’t a center at all let alone an even passable 2C, and using him there without Hayes still means there’s no 3C.

 

[Gardner McKay]

It’s definitely indicative of what they think of Chytil and Andersson. Hayes was never maybe slotting in at 1C and without him the team has one actual center. One. Namestnikov isn’t a center at all let alone an even passable 2C, and using him there without Hayes still means there’s no 3C.

I should have clarified. Long term, yes. Short term, no. This is a dead year. The rookies will get their chances. If they are ready, great. If not, no big deal. You don't need real 2C at the moment. For all I care, Holland could spend time playing 2C this year.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

I don't mind giving him a one year deal, but if they sign Karlsson (assuming he doesn't return to pre-injury form) or Panarin to big money deals and let Hayes walk or trade him for a pick, it will be an absurd way to signal a decent rebuild.

Hayes is a really good player and they could have had him long-term at relatively fair value. Again, it's fine if they don't see him as a fit long-term, but giving bigger money to older players is an awful way to use that cap space.

 

[NYR Viper]

I also think the acquisition of Howden had more of an effect on feeling Hayes may be expendable than Andersson and Chytil. He seems tailor made to be a 3C

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I should have clarified. Long term, yes. Short term, no. This is a dead year. The rookies will get their chances. If they are ready, great. If not, no big deal. You don't need real 2C at the moment. For all I care, Holland could spend time playing 2C this year.

When we inevitably trade Hayes at the deadline, Namestnikov can be the 2C for the remainder of the season. Our line-up post-deadline should look like this:

Kreider-Zib-Buch
Vesey-Namestnikov-Fast
Lindqvist-Howden-Nieves
McLeod-Fogarty-Meskanen

With Andersson and Chytil getting their 9 games to make sure their ELC runs until 2022

 

[silverfish]

It's abundantly clear that the FO doesn't value Hayes long-term as much as I think they value Andersson/Chytil/Howden. It's an interesting bet to make. I suppose it's possible that if the kids don't develop this year the way the FO anticipates, they can always re-up Hayes, but I doubt it, assuming that Hayes will let the season play out and see what the FA crop looks like, where he stands, and how much $ he can make on the open market. Good for him.

If he gets PP time, we're talking about a 6'5", great-2C, that's going to put up anywhere from 50-60 points. Plays in all situations. Doesn't hurt you in the shot attempt game. To me, sounds like the kind of guy you go long-term on. Unfortunately, I felt the same about Stepan.

I find myself disagreeing with the moves this FO makes constantly. I suspect that most of the people on this forum will find that to be good news, though

At this point, smartest thing to do would be to load him with PP time, let him put up 30 points by December, and trade him for a haul

I, myself, would've ran out the Hank years with the center-depth of Stepan-Zibanejad-Hayes and loved every minute of it. But that's me.

 

[NernieBichols]

Somebody said it. Might have been carp in the comments section of RR2.0.

Brass: high up, Sather, Gorton, Drury, even Dolan probably: have become very aware of how playing and living in NY, especially once you got paid, it was affecting the hungriness of the players in a lot of ways.

Without he right kind of culture of accountavbility, that’s what will happen in NY.

You see the guys the rangers were/are concerned about it going forward (miller/Hayes/Stepan), you see how they didn’t really frontload Skjei’s contract.

They are resetting and bringing in hungry players. This time around, be more selective about who you bridge, not about who you extend.

(Hayes/names) not the bridge mistakes (Stepan/Girardi/Miller) were. Stepan/Girardi signs longer would have meant not having to resign them just to keep the window open, they would have been signed through it. Signing miller early to 6yr at 4m would have kept him in the mix without giving him UFA money and NMC/NTC. Those were the mistakes.

 

[NernieBichols]

And it’s funny. You guys will talk endlessly about Hayes. When the writing has been on the wall about Hayes since about his 3rd season. This was always inevitable: really good hockey player, not really dedicated to hockey in he way you want from leaders or vets on your team. Much better suited as a really good part on a really good team. Like when he signed. Not the guy the rangers need as elder statesmen.
This Hayes situation is simple

 

[Off Sides]

The possible trade deadlines

2019 Zucc, Hayes pending UFAs, what are the guesses to what they return? I'm not entirely convinced either will return even a late 1st but not out of the realm of possibility.

2020 Kreider, Name, Vesey, Fast pending UFAs, I think maybe Kreider depending on how he is playing returns a late 1st but the others probably not.

2021 Shattenkirk, Staal, Smith, Lundqvist, other than maybe Shattenkirk if he is playing well still at that point, I don't see much return there but still some sort of futures.

Spooner?

Given that is where they are, moving those players sooner rather than later has to be the best idea, imagine if any of them become injured and can not be sold at the deadlines prior to them becoming a UFA.

Plus selling sooner likely puts the Rangers in the better draft lottery odds. It's sort of time to tank whether or not one feels that strategy is good, it's just how they seem to be positioned.

If that is the general idea, I kind of understand it, not sure I agree that maximizes the returns that could have happened, or that it will make much sense when the expansion draft comes about, but if the plan is to sell for the next three straight deadlines, the signings this year makes some sense in that regard.

 

[Irishguy42]

https://nypost.com/2018/07/30/rangers-put-off-real-kevin-hayes-decision-with-one-year-deal/

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I’d much rather hear what’s Brooks has to say as opposed to Brant

 

[bernmeister]

#1, your facts are wrong about his contract wishes. Do your homework. Hayes didn’t want 8x5.

Where did you come up with that?

5.5M ~ 6M X 5 ~ 6 years.

That was what LB reported. And you can be damn sure a NTC/NMC was part of that contract from his agent.

I actually wanted Hayes back. I would have been copacetic with 5/30. But not with any clauses.

The reports were 5-5.5 varying on term; max term mentioned was 5-6 yrs.

It was not a crazy stretch to go from there to 8 term and in return floor it at 5.

I agree I would have insisted on no NMC, and reasonable min NTC, which is my ticket for everybody.

 

[offdacrossbar]

he would be gone now if there was demand and a market for him. there aint.

we tend over value here. the rest of the league has seen him play too. he's a 2/3c tweener. no where near talented enough to carry a top scoring line. he's stuck in that place that centers go when they dont have elite talent and then get labeled as a 3. he's a solid player but solid isnt enough.

hes here by default. period. the market didnt want him, the offers weren't good enough and that means something. gorton held fast and said pretty much, " you arent worth what you are looking for". we have options in the system with the rebuild. this isnt unexpected. 5 yrs of KH was not gonna happen. he's gone.

this organization lacks high end talent. end of that story. there is NOT ONE player on this roster that would go high in any fantasy draft. think about that. ouch. KH is just another middling player on this roster that didnt have much value. if he did, he isnt here and because of that fact, he didnt get the deal he wanted.

we need to be real bad to get real good talent.

 

[Gardner McKay]

It's abundantly clear that the FO doesn't value Hayes long-term as much as I think they value Andersson/Chytil/Howden. It's an interesting bet to make. I suppose it's possible that if the kids don't develop this year the way the FO anticipates, they can always re-up Hayes, but I doubt it, assuming that Hayes will let the season play out and see what the FA crop looks like, where he stands, and how much $ he can make on the open market. Good for him.

If he gets PP time, we're talking about a 6'5", great-2C, that's going to put up anywhere from 50-60 points. Plays in all situations. Doesn't hurt you in the shot attempt game. To me, sounds like the kind of guy you go long-term on. Unfortunately, I felt the same about Stepan.

I find myself disagreeing with the moves this FO makes constantly. I suspect that most of the people on this forum will find that to be good news, though

At this point, smartest thing to do would be to load him with PP time, let him put up 30 points by December, and trade him for a haul

I, myself, would've ran out the Hank years with the center-depth of Stepan-Zibanejad-Hayes and loved every minute of it. But that's me.

Hayes has played one season where he scored at 50 points per 82 pace. His history suggests he is more of a mid 40's point guy. The idea that he will suddenly blossom into a 60 point player at 26/27 seems unrealistic, no?

Regarding the Step/Zibby/Hayes thing.. I agree. I would have liked to see us make a few more runs. I think we had a good team. At this point, it is what it is.

 

[Lion Hound]

Should be lots of icetime for Hayes this year. Maybe a bigger role too. He scored 25 last season. If he is on pace to repeat that what would his value be at the trade deadline? I'm assuming there will be a lot of interest in a 6'5 217 lb center.

 

[Irishguy42]

Hayes has played one season where he scored at 50 points per 82 pace. His history suggests he is more of a mid 40's point guy. The idea that he will suddenly blossom into a 60 point player at 26/27 seems unrealistic, no?

The thing is, Hayes is a "mid 40's point guy" only because he got laughable PP usage. Barely any. If he received regular PP minutes like Kreider/Zibanejad/etc. he would most likely flirt with 60 points, maybe more.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I hope we don't find out since IMO he should be moved right now.

 

[silverfish]

Hayes has played one season where he scored at 50 points per 82 pace. His history suggests he is more of a mid 40's point guy. The idea that he will suddenly blossom into a 60 point player at 26/27 seems unrealistic, no?

Regarding the Step/Zibby/Hayes thing.. I agree. I would have liked to see us make a few more runs. I think we had a good team. At this point, it is what it is.

If he gets PP time, he can be a 50-60 point center.

 

[Webster]

When we inevitably trade Hayes at the deadline, Namestnikov can be the 2C for the remainder of the season. Our line-up post-deadline should look like this:

Kreider-Zib-Buch
Vesey-Namestnikov-Fast
Lindqvist-Howden-Nieves
McLeod-Fogarty-Meskanen

With Andersson and Chytil getting their 9 games to make sure their ELC runs until 2022

Where's Zucc?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Where's Zucc?

Hopefully in Ottawa.

 

[mrmovies779]

Where's Zucc?

Hopefully traded for a 1st and prospect.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think it’s pretty clear that Zuccarello, Hayes and most likely Spooner will be dealt between now and the deadline. Gorton is going to give his team more shots at high end prospects and picks in next years draft.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Yes, certainly there couldn't possibly be any benefits at all to having a future hall of famer on your roster.

Definitely nothing that young kids trying to become NHLers could possibly learn from a guy like that.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I don't mind giving him a one year deal, but if they sign Karlsson (assuming he doesn't return to pre-injury form) or Panarin to big money deals and let Hayes walk or trade him for a pick, it will be an absurd way to signal a decent rebuild.

Hayes is a really good player and they could have had him long-term at relatively fair value. Again, it's fine if they don't see him as a fit long-term, but giving bigger money to older players is an awful way to use that cap space.

Disagree. Signing a Panarin/Karlsson/Seguin is about deploying that money where it should be deployed – to elite talent. Hayes is not elite talent.

Furthermore, you're not crediting what Hayes would bring back in a trade. The dichotomy isn't Hayes at $6MM vs. Panarin/Karlsson/Seguin at $9MM, it's Hayes at $6MM vs. picks & prospects acquired for Hayes plus Panarin/Karlsson/Seguin at $9MM.

I'd much rather have Panarin at $9MM + young player playing on a contract from $1-3MM plus additional picks/prospects in the cupboard than Hayes at $6MM and JT Miller at $5.5-6MM (salary in TB grossed up for playing in NY).