Player Discussion Kevin Hayes

[Miamipuck]

As Dave Maloney said that last week. Let’s see how Lundqvist feels about the rebuild in the middle of December.

You’re just disappointed the Rangers are rebuilding. If you had your way, the Chytil pick would have been squandered to get rid of the Staal or Girardi contract. I remember having a discussion with you about the state of the Rangers two years ago. You wanted the Rangers to keep trying to ice a team competitive enough for as long Lundqvist was under contract. How was that sustainable when the team was getting older and they had not had a first round pick since 2012?

We saw what happened. Gorton blew up the team and he is not for finished removing players from this mix. You wanted to keep all of those players.

I was right and you were wrong. As usual.

You tell him, send him back to his lair. You were so right, Hank hates Quinn, almost as much as Quinn hates New York!

 

[Machinehead]

I’m not so sure . I think Kevin may be a Jimmy eventually

Kevin could die and his body would be a better player than Jimmy.

 

[ponzu4u]

Nearly 90% + of this board has Anderson and Chytil penciled Day1 into the lineup next season.

We trade Hayes and suddenly they're both 2+ years out...

 

[silverfish]

You tell him, send him back to his lair. You were so right, Hank hates Quinn, almost as much as Quinn hates New York!

 

[Miamipuck]

I can't help myself, my hands just type shit, they have a mind of their own.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Exactly my thoughts. This is a stop gap contract. I think that explains this all. Don't think it reflects Management's view on Hayes

Brooks said Gorton has no inclination to sign him long term and that they were going to sign a one year deal and deal him at the deadline for a late first.

The one year deal happened. Now we wait for the trade

This isn’t a stop gap, he’s not coming back.

 

[Kupo]

Exactly my thoughts. This is a stop gap contract. I think that explains this all. Don't think it reflects Management's view on Hayes

I think Namestnikov and Spooner were targeted as a fall-through If Gorton wasn’t able to sign Hayes to a contract he was comfortable with. And considering what’s happened, it kind of makes sense.

If NY wanted Hayes here long term, you would have seen a long term contract here instead of a 1 year deal.

Hayes is a goner.

 

[Kupo]

Gorton wanted to change this teams core.

Girardi. Brassard. Stepan. Raanta. Nash. Miller. McDonagh. Grabner. Holden. Out.

Hayes and Zucc are next. Possibly Lundqvist. It wouldn’t shock me if Kreider was another player in the near-future.

RB mentioned we could have 4 1st rounders next draft. He’s absolutely right. Imagine, our Rangers having drafted 10~ in the 1st round In 3 years???

That’s rebuilding right there. Especially when you are adding to other young talent here that we traded for, like Howden, Lindgren, Rykov, ADA, etc.,

 

[DanielBrassard]

I hate this, but whatever. Management clearly isn't enamored with Hayes, and they want Andersson and Chytil to be able to play without anyone in their way. Just don't f*** up the return.

 

[Trxjw]

Can't really blame the Rangers on this one. Committing to Hayes long-term was likely never in the cards. Just gotta cross your fingers and hope the right trade partner is out there.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

what was the point of avoiding the arbitration? was he going to get more in arbitration case?

 

[Kupo]

Gorton has an incredibly difficult job. Managing contacts. Listening to certain scouts over others. Making those tough decisions that a good portion of us would buckle if we were in his shoes. Dealing with agents. List goes on and on.

A GM wants to win. He’s paid to win. Winning fills the arena. Packed arenas help revenue. Bigger profits equal happier ownership.

I don’t think Gorton wanted to rebuild. What GM does..? He watched this team and this core play their asses off. We were a very good team and came pretty ****ing close to winning.

I like Gorton because he seems like a realist. He saw us fail. And fail again, despite mortgaging our future for the present. He realized we were on a losing path. Quicksand. You gotta hit the reset button after you reach a certain point.

I would love to play chess against Gorton. He’s a strategist. The decisions he makes today are setting our road to success tomorrow. I guarantee you that there’s baggage with Hayes. Just like there was with Miller. Whether it was in the lockeroom or behind the scenes ****, there was something there that he knew/knows about, that we are completely oblivious too.

If Hayes was that good and wanted a fair contract, he would have been extended. There was something that Gorton didn’t like though. Term. Clauses. Salary. Or off-ice concerns. Something.

Here’s the real question...

What can Hayes get us with his current contract...? What do we want..? We thought we were good at goalie, and then we go and draft a goalie in the 2nd round.

RD is an obvious guess. But RD is a harder position to fill than C, imo.

So are we moving Hayes+? Are we targeting someone like Trouba for Hayes+Pionk? Or do we move Hayes for more picks?

I’d love to be a fly in the Rangers war room. I would literally, pay for that ****.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Trading him for need is stupid. As it is they screwed it up

Get the best prospect. If the best prospect a team is offering is at C then you take it

I want a Jost, Vesalainen, or Fox type of
prospect

Although if we’re being real, the return is going to be underwhelming

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Several factors I feel people aren’t considering:

1) While Hayes seems young, he’s 26 — and we know what the stats say about NHL players, especially forwards (especially especially non-superstar forwards) and their production towards the end of their twenties. I get the usage arguments, but even if he got PP time, what would he have scored last year? MAYBE 55-57? And that’d be his peak, from which we can expect him to decline?

2) Tawnos and maybe one or two other posters have mentioned this, but it’s gone largely unremarked: on a 1-year deal you can retain salary in a trade. There’s no way you can do that on a 5 or 6 year deal. Not only does that open the field, it ups the expected return.

3) Gorton is clearly building a new core around players with character who “get it”. Hayes has been dogged by questions regarding his commitment dating back to his college days.

4) The team has THREE high profile prospects they think are ready to play center. Namestnikov and Spooner both can play center. As of now, Hayes will still be here for at least some of next season. And of course Zibanejad is already locked in at the 1C. The whole talk of potentially “ruining” the prospects (two of whom we’re already playing well enough to be in the league at the of last season, by the by) is completely unfounded.

The contract makes sense for a team that is rebuilding. As will the trade when he eventually gets dealt.

 

[QJL]

I want a two-way righty D back for Hayes. The players I would target are Timmins, Fabbro, and Jokiharju.

 

[Machinehead]

Can't really blame the Rangers on this one.

Don't underestimate me

 

[Kupo]

Several factors I feel people aren’t considering:

1) While Hayes seems young, he’s 26 — and we know what the stats say about NHL players, especially forwards (especially especially non-superstar forwards) and their production towards the end of their twenties. I get the usage arguments, but even if he got PP time, what would he have scored last year? MAYBE 55-57? And that’d be his peak, from which we can expect him to decline?

2) Tawnos and maybe one or two other posters have mentioned this, but it’s gone largely unremarked: on a 1-year deal you can retain salary in a trade. There’s no way you can do that on a 5 or 6 year deal. Not only does that open the field, it ups the expected return.

3) Gorton is clearly building a new core around players with character who “get it”. Hayes has been dogged by questions regarding his commitment dating back to his college days.

4) The team has THREE high profile prospects they think are ready to play center. Namestnikov and Spooner both can play center. As of now, Hayes will still be here for at least some of next season. And of course Zibanejad is already locked in at the 1C. The whole talk of potentially “ruining” the prospects (two of whom we’re already playing well enough to be in the league at the of last season, by the by) is completely unfounded.

The contract makes sense for a team that is rebuilding. As will the trade when he eventually gets dealt.

That’s a key observation with Hayes. Good this. Good that.

But Nothing great. Nothing, irreplaceable.

 

[Elliman]

I’m fine with it. I’m also fine with them trading Kevin Hayes along with just about 75% of the roster with the exception of any rookies who make the team this upcoming season. Hayes is a good solid player but he’s nothing special.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I think we are oversimplifying things. When we gave Hayes 2 years on his last year, we accomplished this situation. Not with this contract. Hayes can get to UFA if he wants to, he just needs to go to arbitration. This deal is 1 RFA plus X UFA years today or in 10 months it’s the UFA years only. Why not give him 1 RFA year now and make a decision on the RFA years next spring? What can change? Some of course, but it can go both ways.

The — BIG — decision was when Gorts gave Hayes the Gorts special, a BRIDGE DEAL. He really really loves those deals. Looking at other teams, they avoid them like the plague. And in hindsight, it seems like a really stupid idea. Looking at the tremendous success the great teams have had avoiding them? But who knows, maybe Gorts knows something that everyone else don’t because he can’t stop with the bridge deal.

He could end up being known as Jeff ‘Bridge-Deal’ Gorton...

Uh, I think you have him confused with Sather, who was notorious for bridge deals and making players “pay their dues”. Gorton’s been in charge since 2016 and last year he signed 24 year old Zibanejad to a 5-year deal and this year he signed 24 year old Skjei to a 6-year deal. Who exactly did he bridge that you wanted him to sign long-term? Signing Hayes for term and significant dollars certainly wouldn’t have been advisable following his second season...

 

[bernmeister]

Mark my words.

This is a humongous mistake. I still think overall GMJG is kickin it, but if the cost is low, a player who has longer term and is young is always worth more than shorter term, after which the player controls his exit.

Whether we keep him or trade him, we should have gone the other way, 8 years, 5, or max, 5.25, which lines up with what he supposedly would accept.

On top of that, we pleaded with this kid to come here, he did, we benefited. Now he is asking a reasonable # with the term. 5 years at 5m per supposedly.
And we said no.

What does that tell the next college UFA?
We are good up to a point, but come your exit of RFA years, we will be unreasonable and tell you to screw yourself?

Makes ZERO sense.

We are behind Chytil over Lias. If Lias gets 7OA value or better, we trade him now.

Zib commands even better return.
Move him, profit.

But that is based on Hayes as part of the core moving forward.

Beyond not good.
Terrible.

 

[bobbop]

There’s a lot to unpack here.

This much is clear...if (big if) Hayes is here on opening night, he has a short window to prove he is worthy of a long term contract. Translation — that ain’t happening. How much can change from what we already know? In that case the Rangers are at the mercy of the market to get a premium return.

If he is traded now, there are 5-6 teams where he would fit nicely. The usual suspects like Montreal and Carolina plus Colorado, Dallas, Vancouver and others. The problem is that getting a first in a deal from any of these teams will be difficult without giving back guarantees in case the pick lands too high in the draft. That means the likely default is a 2020 pick. I may not be alive by the time a 2020 pick makes the NHL.

Not a lot of great options here. If he breaks his leg, his trade value is cooked. If the Rangers move sooner rather than later, what kind of return can the expect?

Gorton needs a win here. So far so good with the rebuild but the pain of a long season will start setting in right around Halloween. This will be one of the last moves (along with MZA and Henrik, if that situati9n deteriorates) that marks the bottoming out of the team. Now it needs to start going uphill.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Rangers are betting on their young centers prospects.

Are they? They are betting on getting at least a 2C and 3C out of Chytil, Andersson and Howden? If they don't get that, these guys were complete busts. The Rangers don't "need" Hayes. They aren't contending this season or next season. They don't want to pay Hayes long-term. They'll trade him in for picks/prospects.

There's really not that much risk here. The rebuild being successful won't hinge on middle of the lineup players like Hayes.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

There’s a lot to unpack here.

This much is clear...if (big if) Hayes is here on opening night, he has a short window to prove he is worthy of a long term contract. Translation — that ain’t happening. How much can change from what we already know? In that case the Rangers are at the mercy of the market to get a premium return.

If he is traded now, there are 5-6 teams where he would fit nicely. The usual suspects like Montreal and Carolina plus Colorado, Dallas, Vancouver and others. The problem is that getting a first in a deal from any of these teams will be difficult without giving back guarantees in case the pick lands too high in the draft. That means the likely default is a 2020 pick. I may not be alive by the time a 2020 pick makes the NHL.

Not a lot of great options here. If he breaks his leg, his trade value is cooked. If the Rangers move sooner rather than later, what kind of return can the expect?

Gorton needs a win here. So far so good with the rebuild but the pain of a long season will start setting in right around Halloween. This will be one of the last moves (along with MZA and Henrik, if that situati9n deteriorates) that marks the bottoming out of the team. Now it needs to start going uphill.

I don’t see any of the teams you listed being a suitor right now - at all - when Hayes can walk at the end of the year. No potential lottery team is dealing a 2019 first for Hayes with one year right now. I doubt any of those teams would move a significant prospect ether...mayyybe Colorado, Carolina, or Dallas. MAYBE if he was locked up for 5 years he could be dealt now...which is basically my point. Don’t really get it.

For my money I think Hayes will insulate the kids to start. Shopped hard at the deadline to a contender or outside chance he walks for nothing next summer if he gets injured.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

A signed Hayes would return that, not a rental Hayes.

You can always trade him later if you don't think he's part of plans and get a lot more for a signed player.

We're so god damn sure Chytil and Andersson are the future of the franchise that we're desperate to get Hayes off the team.

Horrible asset management and Rangers arrogance as usual.

I kind of agree with you that the Rangers, especially under this regime, think they know better than everyone, but I'm not sure signing Hayes long-term would've increased his value. How much value did Stepan have signed long-term? Unless you get a really good deal, a player doesn't have that much value on a long-term deal compared to what they'd have as a rental when there are not really salary concerns.

 

[bobbop]

I don’t see any of the teams you listed being a suitor right now - at all - when Hayes can walk at the end of the year. No potential lottery team is dealing a 2019 first for Hayes with one year right now. I doubt any of those teams would move a significant prospect ether...mayyybe Colorado, Carolina, or Dallas. MAYBE if he was locked up for 5 years he could be dealt now...which is basically my point. Don’t really get it.

For my money I think Hayes will insulate the kids to start. Shopped hard at the deadline to a contender or outside chance he walks for nothing next summer if he gets injured.

If another team wants him now, they can talk to his agent. He can’t sign a contract until January 1, but they can talk now. If a suitor wants him and can satisfy the Rangers, they will let them talk.