Player Discussion Kevin Hayes

[Webster]

I think it’s pretty clear that Zuccarello, Hayes and most likely Spooner will be dealt between now and the deadline. Gorton is going to give his team more shots at high end prospects and picks in next years draft.

Disagree. As being said numerous times they want to keep some veterans. Hayes will get an extension if he plays well.

 

[Gardner McKay]

If he gets PP time, he can be a 50-60 point center.

Fair enough. There was a lot to read and I definitely missed the "if he gets PP time".

 

[mrmovies779]

Disagree. As being said numerous times they want to keep some veterans. Hayes will get an extension if he plays well.

We have enough vets.Staal,Shattenkirk,Hank,Smith to name a few.We can and should trade Zuc,Spooner and Hayes if the right deals come along.

 

[TheTakedown]

Nobody else used that term except for Lundqvist. He looks at Quinn as a college coach. This guy has no NHL head coaching experience. By the time Quinn first figures it out,it will be in year 3 and Shestyorkin will be the starting goalie. You don’t see it from Lundqvist’s point of view?

While I agree with your viewpoint here, we're basically in year 2 of this shit. Give this one more year at most and a lot of these prospects from the 2016 and 2017 Draft Class are going to start coming through--not necessarily to the Rangers, but to at least Hartford, which is going to be good for the team altogether. You need that winning culture and these kids get it.

This coming season is telling for a lot of guys:
Will Gropp prove he's not a bust? -- I am hoping so
Will Skjei live up to his deal and continue to improve? -- I think he will
Does Zibanejad avoid Injury? -- Lets hope so
Is Hayes the #2?
Is Andersson Ready?
Is Chytil Ready?
Which of the 2016 guys prove they are worth a look?

This Hayes contract isn't an insult, they are simply using the final RFA year as a stopgap. if they decide to keep him they will give him the Turris Contract which takes Hayes to 33 years old. Still not bad

 

[darko]

Disagree. As being said numerous times they want to keep some veterans. Hayes will get an extension if he plays well.

He better agree to an extension before the trade deadline because there is no way you let him go unsigned where he can walk for nothing. That's just bad asset management.

 

[TheTakedown]

I kind of agree with you that the Rangers, especially under this regime, think they know better than everyone, but I'm not sure signing Hayes long-term would've increased his value. How much value did Stepan have signed long-term? Unless you get a really good deal, a player doesn't have that much value on a long-term deal compared to what they'd have as a rental when there are not really salary concerns.

I feel the same. Any long term deal would have had SOME sort of trade protection on it. You'd be looking for the perfect suitor to take Hayes at that point, and it won't be 7th + a Prospect--try more like the ROR deal we just saw this month (even though there is no trade protection on his deal... whatever you guys get the picture):

2019 1st
2021 2nd
Tage Thompson
Vladimir Sobotka
Patrick Berglund (BTW his contract is ABHORRENT, guy averages 30 points a year for $3.85M/year)

A late 1st. Likely a late 2nd. Two salary dumps and a decent prospect for O’Reilly

If correlate this deal for Hayes, you're dropping the 2nd, probably one of the cap dumps. 1st, prospect, cap dump. That's a terrible trade.

 

[TheTakedown]

Depending on how the season goes Henrik might feel differently about being moved at next season's TDL. To be honest if Georgiev is his backup I would want him playing at least 30 games and if Alexandar can repeat what he did towards the end of last season he's really on his way to becoming a future NHL starter......and then Shesterkin comes over. These two guys represent the future of Rangers goaltending--though to get enough playing time for either one of them might have to be moved.

I agree with Pavel Buchnevich that players come and go---and that it's best not to get too wrapped in any single player. If the Rangers could move Leetch--they can move Henrik. They can move anyone on this team. I mentioned a while back that Chris Kreider is my favorite player left but he's also been a tease pretty much since the day he got here. He's never really reached his highest potential. Very good player?--yes. Great player?--no way--not even a legit 1st line player in my eyes. The most untouchable players right now to me are Chytil and Andersson and even they can be touched.

This is very, very wrong... Chris Kreider absolutely is a 1st line player--a very f***ing good one

 

[Gardner McKay]

I feel the same. Any long term deal would have had SOME sort of trade protection on it. You'd be looking for the perfect suitor to take Hayes at that point, and it won't be 7th + a Prospect--try more like the ROR deal we just saw this month (even though there is no trade protection on his deal... whatever you guys get the picture):

2019 1st
2021 2nd
Tage Thompson
Vladimir Sobotka
Patrick Berglund (BTW his contract is ABHORRENT, guy averages 30 points a year for $3.85M/year)

A late 1st. Likely a late 2nd. Two salary dumps and a decent prospect for O’Reilly

If correlate this deal for Hayes, you're dropping the 2nd, probably one of the cap dumps. 1st, prospect, cap dump. That's a terrible trade.

100% Agree. Not to mention, what if Hayes has a down year? Who is going to want him with 5-6 years attached? No one. Hayes, even having a down year, is still valuable with no term attached.

 

[Edge]

I think Hayes joins several wait-and-see forwards on this roster --- including Kreider, Zibanejad, Namestnikov and probably even Zucc (though I still think he's the most likely trade candidate).

I don't think the Rangers are hell bent on moving any of them, and would be quite happy if they show enough to convince the team to invest in them over a longer period of time.

But, there's also a level of uncertainty there from a contract standpoint. For better or worse, I think the Rangers are trying to be a little more conservative with the longer contracts they'll (potentially) have on the books.

 

[Off Sides]

I don't see the Rangers extending Hayes, he will want a clause, will require more cap hit as the RFA year is no longer included.

I'd be pretty surprised to not see him traded prior or at the deadline.

 

[Riche16]

Also important is that the NYR didn’t take him to arb.

No one has mentioned this point.

They spent more on the 1 yr deal than necessary. Why?

Possibly to extend him? So they didn’t have to go and “talk him down” during the arb? So that other teams know we value him?

If all they wanted was a 1 yr term why not go all the way and get him for cheaper?

 

[Doctor King Schultz]

he would be gone now if there was demand and a market for him. there aint.

we tend over value here. the rest of the league has seen him play too. he's a 2/3c tweener. no where near talented enough to carry a top scoring line. he's stuck in that place that centers go when they dont have elite talent and then get labeled as a 3. he's a solid player but solid isnt enough.

hes here by default. period. the market didnt want him, the offers weren't good enough and that means something. gorton held fast and said pretty much, " you arent worth what you are looking for". we have options in the system with the rebuild. this isnt unexpected. 5 yrs of KH was not gonna happen. he's gone.

this organization lacks high end talent. end of that story. there is NOT ONE player on this roster that would go high in any fantasy draft. think about that. ouch. KH is just another middling player on this roster that didnt have much value. if he did, he isnt here and because of that fact, he didnt get the deal he wanted.

we need to be real bad to get real good talent.

Pretty much how I feel. The Rangers needed to stop building a roster of good-not great players. While the team is rebuilding there's no reason to be locked in on a guy like that.

 

[Inferno]

Why are people going after RB for bringing up the Hank issue?

Hank already hurt the rebuild last season. People here are upset they got Kravtsov instead of Dahlin, Svechnikov, Zadina, Hughes, Boqvist, etc? Thank the goalie. What did the Rangers gain from Hank having a great season?

The guy wants to stay because he wants to be a Ranger for his whole career, and this is where his life has been for nearly 15 years. That adds to a tough situation, but lets stop with the sentimental attitudes. He's a hockey player on a team we are fans of. No player is bigger than the club. Absolutely no untouchables. Lundqvist staying doesn't help the Rangers. By the time the team is ready to contend, he'll be severely declined as a hockey player. He also doesn't like the rebuild. Its clear from his body language, and how he frames his answers.

The Rangers should try to push him out. The problem is that I'm not sure they can get anyone to take his contract. They'd probably have to eat 50% of it. Might be worth it for him to not ruin the rebuild further. Hank is a thing of the past with the Rangers. He's an expensive placeholder, just like Staal is. Its unfortunate. Great career for the club, but so did McDonagh, Girardi, Staal, Nash. They were part of the last generation of the team. Gorton is trying to rebuild with a new generation. The writing was on the wall for Hank years ago that he was cooked under the Gorton regime. His plan doesn't align with Gorton's. He's here simply because he doesn't want to leave. Gorton would've had him out the door by now, if he had his own choice.

I like you pb....but I despise this post....you're better than this.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Where's Zucc?

You'll be traded

 

[TheTakedown]

https://nypost.com/2018/07/30/rangers-put-off-real-kevin-hayes-decision-with-one-year-deal/

Here's the quote that encompasses my thoughts:

Now the Rangers are going to see if he can flourish under Quinn, and if not, he might turn into more assets as they continue to focus on the future

Hayes is going to get a Turris deal in Free Agency, 6 * 6 No trade protections. Perhaps that's what Hayes wanted now, but the Rangers want ONE year to figure out what they have in their Center prospects--Andersson, Chytil, Howden, Hell even Spooner is someone they can look at for a semi-long term Hayes replacement, prior to making that commitment to Hayes. There may have been discussion of a 5 year deal at a slightly higher AAV instead of a 6 year deal now.

 

[TheTakedown]

Hayes has played one season where he scored at 50 points per 82 pace. His history suggests he is more of a mid 40's point guy. The idea that he will suddenly blossom into a 60 point player at 26/27 seems unrealistic, no?

Regarding the Step/Zibby/Hayes thing.. I agree. I would have liked to see us make a few more runs. I think we had a good team. At this point, it is what it is.

People remember Brassard being a 45 point guy until he hit 60 points at age 27. It's possible and it can happen, but there's no point in making a 5 year commitment to just hope and pray that happens, especially when you have one more year of leverage. Remember, it's ONE RFA YEAR, that doesn't hold much value when you're negotiating a long term deal

 

[Edge]

People remember Brassard being a 45 point guy until he hit 60 points at age 27. It's possible and it can happen, but there's no point in making a 5 year commitment to just hope and pray that happens, especially when you have one more year of leverage. Remember, it's ONE RFA YEAR, that doesn't hold much value when you're negotiating a long term deal

People also remember Brassard falling back into the 45 range after two years of being that 60 point guy.

I get the sense that's part of the uncertainty with a guy like Hayes.

Is he a legit 50-60 point player moving forward and being utilizes in all situations? Will he maintain that for several years? How much is that worth and for how long?

I don't know if anyone knows that for sure at this point. I know I don't.

 

[Off Sides]

I don't see why Hayes signs anything until he can test the UFA market?

If he flourishes why not test the market? Same if he stays more or less the same. Like what motivation does he have to extend with the Rangers beforehand? Are they going to offer him 8 years as that would be the only thing that sets the Rangers possible offer apart from what any other team could offer? If he is going to test the market the Rangers are likely to sell him beforehand, no?

 

[TheTakedown]

I think Hayes joins several wait-and-see forwards on this roster --- including Kreider, Zibanejad, Namestnikov and probably even Zucc (though I still think he's the most likely trade candidate).

I don't think the Rangers are hell bent on moving any of them, and would be quite happy if they show enough to convince the team to invest in them over a longer period of time.

But, there's also a level of uncertainty there from a contract standpoint. For better or worse, I think the Rangers are trying to be a little more conservative with the longer contracts they'll (potentially) have on the books.

100% Agreed

 

[Gardner McKay]

I don't see why Hayes signs anything until he can test the UFA market?

If he flourishes why not test the market? Same if he stays more or less the same. Like what motivation does he have to extend with the Rangers beforehand? Are they going to offer him 8 years as that would be the only thing that sets the Rangers possible offer apart from what any other team could offer? If he is going to test the market the Rangers are likely to sell him beforehand, no?

I mean, he picked the Rangers when he was a UFA 4 years ago. Obviously he likes the team, city, etc. Most players never get that option. Hayes already has.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

I mean, he picked the Rangers when he was a UFA 4 years ago. Obviously he likes the team, city, etc. Most players never get that option. Hayes already has.

It was definitely a more desirable destination coming off a finals appearance.

 

[tomobson]

I like the flexibility this signing gives us. I'm assuming Hayes is going to be eating a lot more minutes, including pp time, as the team tries to up his value. If he's able to hit another level then maybe we resign him and open up trade talks with Mika. If he stays at the same level then you trade him at the TDL and you haven't handcuffed yourself for the 2019 FA class which could land us a much better player than Hayes.

The only thing that scares me is that Mika is possibly one concussion away from turning into Nash towards the end of his tenure here with the Rangers. If that happens, and we have no Hayes, then all our Center prospects have to pan out. And that's wishful thinking.

 

[kovazub94]

If he gets PP time, he can be a 50-60 point center.

OK, I'll bite. What should be Hayes' role on PP? He is not a shooter. He's not a blue line QB and not good enough to be half wall setup man. Front of the net then maybe? Would Hayes be worthy of being on the top PP unit? IMHO not on this NYR team and basing on this, not on many other teams. So do you really think it would make Hayes a 60-point producer if he's a second unit front of the net guy?

 

[Gardner McKay]

It was definitely a more desirable destination coming off a finals appearance.

Although that is true, I think my point still stands. He has already had an opportunity to do something that most players his age have not done, and that is be a UFA.

 

[silverfish]

OK, I'll bite. What should be Hayes' role on PP? He is not a shooter. He's not a blue line QB and not good enough to be half wall setup man. Front of the net then maybe? Would Hayes be worthy of being on the top PP unit? IMHO not on this NYR team and basing on this, not on many other teams. So do you really think it would make Hayes a 60-point producer if he's a second unit front of the net guy?

I don't know, but I think I'd find a spot for the guy who scored 6 pp goals in 83 PP minutes last season. You know, less PP time than David Desharnais got. He can take Vesey's spot. I doubt we'll miss his 1 pp goal from last year in his 115 minutes.

I have this weird thing where I like optimizing the ice time of good players and playing bad players less. Odd. I know.