Rumor: Kevin Hayes to Chicago?

[Styles]

Again, I'd be totally fine with it if Toews-Kane and DeBrincat-Strome had better complimentary wingers.

Neither of those lines have someone even as good as Hyman, nonetheless someone like Lindholm or Wilson.

They all just had career years I don't think they need much help. Our depth is lacking and is way more important than a stacked top 6.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

This team definitely doesn’t need overpaid bottom 6 players like Beagle and Rousell. Those guys need to be found for cheaper on buy low deals, trade, draft or overseas. We need top 6 players that can be paid reasonable money to slot in on a 3rd line. 6m for Hayes when you’re shipping out Anisimov and his 4.55m per in an 80m+ cap world is not a huge deal when its a 1.45m incremental increase in cap and they have 20m+ to deploy.

How many teams do that in today's NHL with salary cap restrictions?

You don't sign a guy for $6 million to play on your third line, nonetheless two $6 million guys. The top-six guys on third lines (Tuch in Vegas, Connolly in Washington, Kadri in Toronto) are there because the depth is so strong they have no choice but to play there. Also, all those guys are making less than Saad and don't have another $6 million linemate.

Unless you're doing the Pittsburgh thing, two $6 million guys on your third line makes no sense, especially when you're hurting your top two lines to do it.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

This team definitely doesn’t need overpaid bottom 6 players like Beagle and Rousell. Those guys need to be found for cheaper on buy low deals, trade, draft or overseas. We need top 6 players that can be paid reasonable money to slot in on a 3rd line. 6m for Hayes when you’re shipping out Anisimov and his 4.55m per in an 80m+ cap world is not a huge deal when its a 1.45m incremental increase in cap and they have 20m+ to deploy.

You can't look at it that way. Each and every deal could be huge for re-signing RFAs. I don't look at the Hawks as having $21M in cap space, I look at them having 6 or 7M because of the impending Strome/Debrincat deals. If they sign just one forward to a $6M deal without moving Anisimov they're right back in cap hell.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

How many teams do that in today's NHL with salary cap restrictions?

You don't sign a guy for $6 million to play on your third line, nonetheless two $6 million guys. The top-six guys on third lines (Tuch in Vegas, Connolly in Washington, Kadri in Toronto) are there because the depth is so strong they have no choice but to play there. Also, all those guys are making less than Saad and don't have another $6 million linemate.

Unless you're doing the Pittsburgh thing, two $6 million guys on your third line makes no sense, especially when you're hurting your top two lines to do it.

You’re not looking at the bigger picture here. Hayes and Saad on a third line makes them a deeper team. You don’t stick to these hard rules and say no player shall make more than X. Thats a poor way to construct a team imo. Cap space has diminishing returns after a certain point. If they lock up Strome and Cat and have an extra 1.45m to upgrade Anisimov to Hayes then its not an issue. Don’t sit on cap just to sit on it because of some arbitrary predefined rules that don’t need to be in place.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

They all just had career years I don't think they need much help. Our depth is lacking and is way more important than a stacked top 6.

Right, they just had career years meaning they may never do this again.

Yes they need depth, but that depth needs to come from guys in-house or UFA guys on cheap deals, just like every other team in the league. You don't sign a $6 million guy for depth and pair him with another $6 million depth guy when you're in a hard-capped league.

That's just my opinion though, and very well could be horribly wrong.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

You can't look at it that way. Each and every deal could be huge for re-signing RFAs. I don't look at the Hawks as having $21M in cap space, I look at them having 6 or 7M because of the impending Strome/Debrincat deals. If they sign just one forward to a $6M deal without moving Anisimov they're right back in cap hell.

In every post I’ve made about this I said Anisimov is gone to do it. So we agree there.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

You’re not looking at the bigger picture here. Hayes and Saad on a third line makes them a deeper team. You don’t stick to these hard rules and say no player shall make more than X. Thats a poor way to construct a team imo. Cap space has diminishing returns after a certain point. If they lock up Strome and Cat and have an extra 1.45m to upgrade Anisimov to Hayes then its not an issue. Don’t sit on cap just to sit on it because of some arbitrary predefined rules that don’t need to be in place.

The cap space is temporary. A lot of that cap space you see will be gone in two years.

If you're advocating for a one-year $6 million deal for a depth guy, cool I'm on board with that.

 

[ChicagoHockeyFan]

Saad was on the third line for the last month of the season and still averaged 18 minutes a game. Both him and Hayes averaging that will impact the game way more than say a Beagle and Rousell who are two players that signed for 3M last year in free agency.

Guys like Filpula and Derek Ryan were also around 3M guys who really helped turn their teams around and each won their division. If we are smart with these signings we get a Filpula instead of a Beagle

 

[Toews2Bickell]

The cap space is temporary. A lot of that cap space you see will be gone in two years.

If you're advocating for a one-year $6 million deal for a depth guy, cool I'm on board with that.

I’m looking at it as 1.45m extra to swap Hayes for Anisimov. Not 6m on top of 4.55m they already have allocated.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Guys like Filpula and Derek Ryan were also around 3M guys who really helped turn their teams around and each won their division. If we are smart with these signings we get a Filpula instead of a Beagle

This is how you improve your depth, not by signing a $6 million/ multi-year deal with Hayes.

If you sign Hayes to that contract, it's to play a complimentary role in the top-six., and to make one of those lines even more effective.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Guys like Filpula and Derek Ryan were also around 3M guys who really helped turn their teams around and each won their division. If we are smart with these signings we get a Filpula instead of a Beagle

Fillpula panned out but he might be an exception to the rule when it comes to paying depth guys as UFAs...He was awful for Philly. What would be interesting to know is ratio of guys that panned out versus didnt...

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I’m looking at it as 1.45m extra to swap Hayes for Anisimov. Not 6m on top of 4.55m they already have allocated.

I'm guessing the Hawks are looking to allocate less money to the 3C role, not more with DeBrincat and Strome needing extensions soon.

 

[ChiHawks10]

The cap space is temporary. A lot of that cap space you see will be gone in two years.

If you're advocating for a one-year $6 million deal for a depth guy, cool I'm on board with that.

And other space will free up.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

I'm guessing the Hawks are looking to allocate less money to the 3C role, not more with DeBrincat and Strome needing extensions soon.

The extension money is already there for them...

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Fillpula panned out but he might be an exception to the rule when it comes to paying depth guys as UFAs...He was awful for Philly. What would be interesting to know is ratio of guys that panned out versus didnt...

Can you think of examples of teams that broke the bank to overpay a top-six guy to play in their bottom-six?

Not including the UFA busts, like James Neal. Calgary signed that deal thinking he'd play in their top-six.

 

[Styles]

Right, they just had career years meaning they may never do this again.

Yes they need depth, but that depth needs to come from guys in-house or UFA guys on cheap deals, just like every other team in the league. You don't sign a $6 million guy for depth and pair him with another $6 million depth guy when you're in a hard-capped league.

That's just my opinion though, and very well could be horribly wrong.

If they are both playing 16-18 minutes a game it's not an issue. We pretty much did the same thing this year with AA and Saad on the third line. I didn't see any complaints about it. Most people were happy because Saad was driving the third line and it helped our depth.

 

[BK]

As long as the deal is right I am a yes on Hayes.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

The extension money is already there for them...

How many teams have a $6 million third line center?

Good depth comes from guys over performing their cap hit while playing behind guys and lines that are better than them.

I don't believe it comes from signing $6 million deals for guys to be your third line center.

Maybe I'm just crazy and you're right, and that's how the league will go.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Can you think of examples of teams that broke the bank to overpay a top-six guy to play in their bottom-six?

Not including the UFA busts, like James Neal. Calgary signed that deal thinking he'd play in their top-six.

It doesn’t matter if they break the bank. A -EV bet is a -EV bet...and on average I’m assuming its a bad decision to pay historical 4th liners 3 million dollars a year. Or whatever % of cap space it equates to in a given year.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

If they are both playing 16-18 minutes a game it's not an issue. We pretty much did the same thing this year with AA and Saad on the third line. I didn't see any complaints about it. Most people were happy because Saad was driving the third line and it helped our depth.

I don't give a damn about their minutes though.

I care about making Toews-Kane as impactful as possible, and I care about making DeBrincat-Strome as impactful as possible.

Then I care about figuring out how to maximize our depth players through getting guys to over-perform their respective cap hits.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

It doesn’t matter if they break the bank. A -EV bet is a -EV bet...and on average I’m assuming its a bad decision to pay historical 4th liners 3 million dollars a year. Or whatever % of cap space it equates to in a given year.

I don't understand what you mean.

I'm not saying sign 4th liners for $3 million.

I'm saying don't limit your elite top-six players just so you can make two complimentary top-six players overpaid third liners.

Saad and Hayes would be more effective and impactful playing in the top-six rather than playing with themselves on the third line.

I think you can create solid depth from what you have in-house, and through MAYBE bringing in one smart and cheap UFA signing.

That's my belief, and that's my argument. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of direct data to back it up outside of line stats from NaturalStatTrick that show Saad-Toews-Kane is better than Caggiula-Toews-Kane.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

How many teams have a $6 million third line center?

Good depth comes from guys over performing their cap hit while playing behind guys and lines that are better than them.

I don't believe it comes from signing $6 million deals for guys to be your third line center.

Maybe I'm just crazy and you're right, and that's how the league will go.

I don’t understand what other teams have to do with how we construct our team given our cap constraints and player group. Its irrelevant.

 

[Styles]

I don't give a damn about their minutes though.

I care about making Toews-Kane as impactful as possible, and I care about making DeBrincat-Strome as impactful as possible.

Then I care about figuring out how to maximize our depth players through getting guys to over-perform their respective cap hits.

How many minutes they play is how they impact the game on a nightly basis?

Cags was fine with Kane and Toews and Kahun/Perlini were fine with Strome and Cat. Those guys don't need the help.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

I don't understand what you mean.

I'm not saying sign 4th liners for $3 million.

I'm saying don't limit your elite top-six players just so you can make two complimentary top-six players overpaid third liners.

Saad and Hayes would be more effective and impactful playing in the top-six rather than playing with themselves on the third line.

I think you can create solid depth from what you have in-house, and through MAYBE bringing in one smart and cheap UFA signing.

That's my belief, and that's my argument. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of direct data to back it up outside of line stats from NaturalStatTrick that show Saad-Toews-Kane is better than Caggiula-Toews-Kane.

Define overpaid? Saad and Hayes don’t become overpaid simply because of the line they’re played on.

 

[featherhawk]

Rather sign brock Nelson