Proposal: Kevin Hayes to Calgary

[tony d]

Not that bad a deal value wise. Could see it happening.

 

[Off Sides]

While I am a Ranger fan and hope they can either turn Hayes into some good deadline return or extend him to something that makes some sense, I would not be so sure about using last year's trade market and Nash as examples of what may become this trade deadline and Hayes.

Maybe it will be similar, maybe there will be more rentals out there, maybe the buyers are more conservative, or less of them. Maybe Boston liked Nash more than any team will like Hayes.

Maybe it will be a better sellers market. Maybe Hayes will prove to have more value.

Maybe Hayes is allowed to talk extension with the team interested in him before a trade and that effects his return one way or another or even effects what the Rangers may offer in an extension.

Point being it's kind of a fluid situation, but yes, biased on last years market I'd expect a late 1st plus something back for him should the Rangers also be willing to take back some stuff the acquiring team does not want.

 

[DFF]

You clearly don't understand player's values.

I said they'd get a late first at the deadline. That was what they got for Stastny last year. As a rental Hayes is no better than Stastny. There are plenty of other rental examples. Contender giving up their late first and some long shots prospect for help.

Are you expecting to get some blue Chip or good established nhler for him? Only a Homer or a moron would think that.

I understand the NHL trades very well thank you.

 

[Kupo]

I said they'd get a late first at the deadline. That was what they got for Stastny last year. As a rental Hayes is no better than Stastny. There are plenty of other rental examples. Contender giving up their late first and some long shots prospect for help.

Are you expecting to get some blue Chip or good established nhler for him? Only a Homer or a moron would think that.

I understand the NHL trades very well thank you.

Stastny was traded for a conditional 1st, 4th, and forward prospect Foley. He's 32.

Only a moron would expect an established NHLer for a 26 year old, two way center who put up 25G last season? Really?

Yeeaaaaaa, you clearly don't understand value. It's pretty obvious.

 

[Volica]

Forwards in expiring deals rarely end up getting the bank truck backed up for them at the deadline. Especially on this deadline where there’s the potential to be a number of higher profile FA’s.

IE if the ask is a first plus B prospect, I’d do that later in the season. If higher, I shoot for significantly better players in Stone or Duchene.

 

[Kupo]

Forwards in expiring deals rarely end up getting the bank truck backed up for them at the deadline. Especially on this deadline where there’s the potential to be a number of higher profile FA’s.

IE if the ask is a first plus B prospect, I’d do that later in the season. If higher, I shoot for significantly better players in Stone or Duchene.

Is a 1st and a prospect equivalent to a bank truck?

 

[Volica]

Is a 1st and a prospect equivalent to a bank truck?

Is it today or at the TDL and who is the prospect?

Today it is. No reason to give any team a potential lotto ball.

 

[Kupo]

Is it today or at the TDL and who is the prospect?

Today it is. No reason to give any team a potential lotto ball.

Deadline. Prospects chips contains no blue particles.

The Rangers didn’t get a bonafide blue chipper for Nash, Grabner, or McDonagh. They got quality prospects in Howden, Lindgren, Rykov and Hajek. Not expecting a 1st plus blue chipper for Hayes.

 

[Savant]

For a rental? Please.

Are you saying rentals dont get 1sts?

 

[Lunatik]

Are you saying rentals dont get 1sts?

They do, but rarely do they from a team that just missed the playoffs before the season starts. Context matters and in this case it wouldn't make sense for the Flames

 

[Savant]

They do, but rarely do they from a team that just missed the playoffs before the season starts. Context matters and in this case it wouldn't make sense for the Flames

I don't know how accurate that statement is.

Flames only missed the playoffs because Mike Smith got hurt and their goaltending imploded. They are also in the worst division in the league. There a recipe for a team that should be aggressive at the deadline

There is no reason the Rangers cant get a 1st for Hayes, especially at the deadline. Whether its Calgary or not doesnt make a difference to me, but its certainly not an unfair ask.

 

[Lunatik]

I don't know how accurate that statement is.

Flames only missed the playoffs because Mike Smith got hurt and their goaltending imploded. They are also in the worst division in the league. There a recipe for a team that should be aggressive at the deadline

There is no reason the Rangers cant get a 1st for Hayes, especially at the deadline. Whether its Calgary or not doesnt make a difference to me, but its certainly not an unfair ask.

As I stated in my post BEFORE THE SEASON STARTS, I never suggested it couldn't happen at the deadline.

The Flames unachieved last year after trading their first round pick and as a result of the poor season we made a shitload of changes and while we should be better. However, better on paper and better on the ice are two very different things. So until we are firmly in a playoff spot, I do not see the Flames even considering moving their first.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

While I am a Ranger fan and hope they can either turn Hayes into some good deadline return or extend him to something that makes some sense, I would not be so sure about using last year's trade market and Nash as examples of what may become this trade deadline and Hayes.

Maybe it will be similar, maybe there will be more rentals out there, maybe the buyers are more conservative, or less of them. Maybe Boston liked Nash more than any team will like Hayes.

Maybe it will be a better sellers market. Maybe Hayes will prove to have more value.

Maybe Hayes is allowed to talk extension with the team interested in him before a trade and that effects his return one way or another or even effects what the Rangers may offer in an extension.

Point being it's kind of a fluid situation, but yes, biased on last years market I'd expect a late 1st plus something back for him should the Rangers also be willing to take back some stuff the acquiring team does not want.

Good post.

GMs have been reluctant to part with FRPs at that time of year. We’re talking a pretty decent sample size here. Going back 10 years:

Year	Guaranteed	Conditional	Total	Players Dealt
2009	1	0	1	Comrie (Traded With RFA Campoli, Though)
2010	1	0	1	Kovalchuk
2011	1	0	1	Kaberle
2012	1	0	1	Gaustad
2013	2	2	4	Iginla, Miller (Condition On Other Pick Not Met), Jagr
2014	0	0	0
2015	3	0	3	Sekera, Vermette, Franson
2016	1	1	2	Ladd, Russell (Condition Not Met)
2017	2	1	3	Hanzal, Shattenkirk, Eaves
2018	2	1	3	Kane, Nash, Stastny
Average	1.4	0.5	1.9

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

From teams that didn’t make the playoffs in 2018, the class of 2019 includes Seguin/Duchene at center, Lee/Skinner/Pacioretty/Stone/Eberle on the wing and Karlsson on defense. Expand out to those teams that could fall off in 2019 (teams that didn’t finish Top 2 in their division in 2018 for the purpose of objectivity) and you add E. Staal, Panarin, Simmonds and Bobrovsky.

Many of the players listed will either re-sign or play out their contracts with their current teams. Still, there are only so many picks to go around. Too much competition and the supply forces the price down for the 2nd tier names listed.

I do think Hayes is a solid bet to return a 1st as the market thins, but it’s not a slam dunk. There’s some inconsistency in player quality year to year. Paul Gaustad is worth a 1st one year and Derek Roy is worth a 2nd + the next. Ryan Miller is worth a massive package one year and Ben Bishop is worth relative scraps a few years later. A near PPG Thomas Vanek somehow only returned a 2nd +.

 

[FameFlame069]

no thanks

Bennett has not met expectations, so no one will take him unless cheap as a gamble/reclamation.

I was initially POed by the 1 yr to Hayes, who I still say stays long term.
But upon reflection, I could see them moving Zib sooner than later, keeping Hayes to the last minute, then still getting good rental value for him as he does a Yankees' Chapman fetching a haul and then returning.

When we selected Andersson, we did not know Chytil would still be available later. Chytil has that sniper upside and NY will consensus on him. If Andersson got top top top dollar comparable to his 7OA now, I would consider moving him now, along with Zib on paper selling high in a market short on pivots, esp righty shot pivots, at decent term/$. However, if a team w/a high enough pick does not want to swap out out their comparable 2019 for Andersson, I'm good with letting Andy develop and see what develops. I expect Zib to be out, and Hayes, Nieves and presumably Andersson to be our pivots, along w/Chytil, tho he may slide to W if C depth is added.
{The mutual backscratch on Andersson being dealt is he is ready to play now for the acquiring team, and NY would able to repurpose his value in 2019 draft with acceptably high pick.}

We are still seeing equivalent of 1st value as min for rentals, the standard in recent years [Hanzal, etc.]. If a 2nd instead of a 1st, there must be a very high prospect in lieu of, e.g., Rykov + 2nd for Grabner.
Hayes will get much more. CGY must expect to offer highest bid to top competition, and OP is not it.

Something around Hayes + for Hanifin +.

Hayes + for Hanifin +

hahahahahahahahahaha Hayes + Andersson for Hanifin + 7th rounder

 

[DFF]

Stastny was traded for a conditional 1st, 4th, and forward prospect Foley. He's 32.

Only a moron would expect an established NHLer for a 26 year old, two way center who put up 25G last season? Really?

Yeeaaaaaa, you clearly don't understand value. It's pretty obvious.

Yes, good luck with getting equal value for a UFA with average skillset and production. Only a moron would expect more than a 1st for Hayes. If someone really wants to pay, they go after Mark Stone not freaking Kevin Hayes

And wtf does age have anything to do with UFA rental? As a rental Stastny>>>Hayes


You obviously do not understand UFA rental

 

[Kupo]

Yes, good luck with getting equal value for a UFA with average skillset and production. Only a moron would expect more than a 1st for Hayes. If someone really wants to pay, they go after Mark Stone not freaking Kevin Hayes

And wtf does age have anything to do with UFA rental? As a rental Stastny>>>Hayes


You obviously do not understand UFA rental

There were about 27 center in the league last year that scored more goals than Hayes. He was about 60th in TOI. He was utilized in defensive situations.

Claiming Kevin Hayes is average is a great way to announce you don’t know who Kevin Hayes even is. Give yourself a nice firm and supportive tap on you back for that glorious statement.

How many Mark Stones will be available next deadline? Are there like 3 or 4 if them...?

Maybe you can explain to me why Rick Nash essentially got a 1st + a prospect last deadline? Hayes plays a more important position. He’s younger. And he’s more productive at this stage in his career.

A 1 dimensional winger (Grabner) got a 2nd and a prospect last deadline.

Look at what ****ig Hanzal got last deadline when he was traded.

Yea, you clearly don’t understand value.

 

[Baxterman]

I think he’d slot in perfectly in Calgary’s top-6, but I don’t really see anything I’d want from the Flames that’s reasonably available. I don’t think they would deal Valimaki or Andersson, and I don’t think we’ll see Bennett take that next step in his development.

I think he’d be a much better fit in Colorado, and they have better assets to move in a deal.

He would not slot perfectly at all we already have 6 guys better than him in the top 6 and his already overblown salary doesn't come close to fitting either.

 

[DFF]

There were about 27 center in the league last year that scored more goals than Hayes. He was about 60th in TOI. He was utilized in defensive situations.

Claiming Kevin Hayes is average is a great way to announce you don’t know who Kevin Hayes even is. Give yourself a nice firm and supportive tap on you back for that glorious statement.

How many Mark Stones will be available next deadline? Are there like 3 or 4 if them...?

Maybe you can explain to me why Rick Nash essentially got a 1st + a prospect last deadline? Hayes plays a more important position. He’s younger. And he’s more productive at this stage in his career.

A 1 dimensional winger (Grabner) got a 2nd and a prospect last deadline.

Look at what ****ig Hanzal got last deadline when he was traded.

Yea, you clearly don’t understand value.

OK genius, since the Wild was stupid once, that doesnt set the standard for "value"

If guys like Hayes (20/40 scorer ,UFA to be looking for a big payday) are so valuable can you name a few other deals that return a "windfall" that you perceive?

If you cant, go back to basketball...maybe you know something there.


And I repeat, only a moron would expect Hayes to return something better than Stastny

 

[Lunatik]

OK genius, since the Wild was stupid once, that doesnt set the standard for "value"

If guys like Hayes (20/40 scorer UFA to be) are so valuable can you name a few other deals that return a "windfall" that you perceive?

If you cant, go back to basketball...maybe you know something there.

Just quit dude, as usual you are wrong. If the Rangers move Hayes at the deadline, they will very possibly get a 1st for him. It's not a guarantee because the market fluctuates, but it is likely. Saying he definitely won't is just flat our wrong.

I've always claimed you don't pay attention to the game and just come around to stir stuff up and it's this kind of garbage that has led to that opinion.

So you want examples of similar guys who have landed first round picks?

Picks from 2018 Draft:
Brayden Schenn (before the season, second of 2 first rounders)
Derick Brassard
Rick Nash
Ryan Hartman (RFA, but never reached 35 points)
Paul Stastny
Tomas Tatar

Picks from 2017 Draft:
Derek Stepan (before the season)
Martin Hanzal
Brayden Schenn (at the draft, first of 2 first rounders)
Patrick Eaves

That is just the last two drafts. Educate yourself and maybe you wouldn't look like a complete fool.

 

[Kupo]

OK genius, since the Wild was stupid once, that doesnt set the standard for "value"

If guys like Hayes (20/40 scorer UFA to be) are so valuable can you name a few other deals that return a "windfall" that you perceive?

If you cant, go back to basketball...maybe you know something there.

I don’t watch basketball. But, I showed you other players last deadline that fetched a decent return, all of which were less valuable than Hayes.

We’re not miles apart here. We both agree he’s worth a 1st. I think there will be more than 1 team interested in him during the deadline, and that value will be decided by which prospect is offered.

Is that really that far fetched...? A late 1st and a decent prospect..?

 

[DFF]

Just quit dude, as usual you are wrong. If the Rangers move Hayes at the deadline, they will very possibly get a 1st for him. It's not a guarantee because the market fluctuates, but it is likely. Saying he definitely won't is just flat our wrong.

I've always claimed you don't pay attention to the game and just come around to stir stuff up and it's this kind of garbage that has led to that opinion.

So you want examples of similar guys who have landed first round picks?

Picks from 2018 Draft:
Brayden Schenn (before the season, second of 2 first rounders)
Derick Brassard
Rick Nash
Ryan Hartman (RFA, but never reached 35 points)
Paul Stastny
Tomas Tatar

Picks from 2017 Draft:
Derek Stepan (before the season)
Martin Hanzal
Brayden Schenn (at the draft, first of 2 first rounders)
Patrick Eaves

That is just the last two drafts. Educate yourself and maybe you wouldn't look like a complete fool.

Did you bother to read my posts or as usual just being an ass and jump on people

I clearly said the return for Hayes would be a low 1st rounder from a contender at the deadline.

The other guys is claiming he is worth much more.

It's a f***ing embarrassment the way you pretend to know it all. Face it you know nothing more than anybody on here

 

[Baxterman]

Is that really that far fetched...? A late 1st and a decent prospect..?

I don’t think it is far fetched at all because there are always desperate/dumb teams at the deadline but that isn’t close to what I would willing to give up for him.

 

[DFF]

I don’t watch basketball. But, I showed you other players last deadline that fetched a decent return, all of which were less valuable than Hayes.

We’re not miles apart here. We both agree he’s worth a 1st. I think there will be more than 1 team interested in him during the deadline, and that value will be decided by the prospect is offered.

Is that really that far fetched...? A late 1st and a decent prospect..?

That I can agree. I have always maintained he will return a 1st, I dont see it far fetched if someone throw in a few mid/low level prospect.

 

[firstemperor]

Seems pretty underwhelming for NYR.

That's probably because I'd put Bennett's value at ~late 1st at most-early 2nd. And Kulak's value at a late 2nd at most.

If that were the price, I would have easily matched on my team's end (prior to Tavares).

 

[Gardner McKay]

anyone calling a player of that age a bust needs their head examined.

People said the same thing about Yakupov. Age isn't indicative of a players likeliness to succeed.