Confirmed with Link: Kevin Hayes 5: signs 7 years, $50M

[baudib1]

There's no doubt in my mind that Couturier would get 7 X 13M if he hit the open market.

 

[Magua]

Pray for reduced max contracts in the next CBA.

And pray for the NHL figuring out the 2019-2020 cap by the time Couturier is a UFA in 2022.

 

[Jtown]

If the NFL lets Kraft get away with it, this group of dolts will never find it.

My two strategies to win a cup as an owner is that one. Pay players well below cap, make up for it in retirement. 2nd way was buy another franchise and make Fletcher like trades to the flyers.

 

[mja]

I'm not assuming anything...other than there will be ways to deal with things...because there always is. Some are more painful choices than others.

The part that gets me is the complete absolutism with this conversation in the last day. I don't think I have that...I don't mean to if I have sounded that way.

Neither you will be 100% correct, nor will I...there will be a blend. Many around here seem to be firmly resigned that these 3 recent moves have destroyed us. I'm just not seeing that.

3 years is a long time. I don't think Hayes loan contract will drastically alter our course for the negative. If Hayes is the weak link we can complain about it then. It could be G. It could be Jake, Patrick could have never worked out. Lots of things "could" happen.

We will have to prioritize the players to be here as things happen over the next 3 years. Does Hayes complicate that...yes. was it worth the risk of doing nothing...IMO...no.

There's a wide gap between signing Hayes & doing nothing. I was and still am all for moves that help the team win a Stanley Cup. I have no interest in dealing Ghost for picks or just in general, but if we could package him with Patrick to land a true 1C I'd be all over it. Hayes is settling. It's not the worst thing in the world, he's a useful player. But he's still settling, and I don't think he's the piece (nor are Niskanen or Braun) that pushes this team to the top of the mountain, and if they're not those guys, then what are we doing and why are we doing it?

The moves haven't destroyed us, but they're cause for concern that management is undoing the good things that Hextall while not optimally addressing the weaknesses he left behind him. And the short-sightedness on the part of a huge chunk of the fanbase is making my eyes bleed. It's as if they didn't have to live through other inflated 2nd tier free agent acquisitions on expensive longterm contracts over the years that went south. Luke Richardson. Chris Gratton. Mike Rathje. Ilya Bryzgalov. Andrew MacDonald.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I will worry about it in his contract year. The market will be different then compared to what it is now. But still you dont let players like Couturier walk if you are a strong playoff team.
If you have to pay him 10M you do it.

 

[achdumeingute]

There's a wide gap between signing Hayes & doing nothing. I was and still am all for moves that help the team win a Stanley Cup. I have no interest in dealing Ghost for picks or just in general, but if we could package him with Patrick to land a true 1C I'd be all over it. Hayes is settling. It's not the worst thing in the world, he's a useful player. But he's still settling, and I don't think he's the piece (nor are Niskanen or Braun) that pushes this team to the top of the mountain, and if they're not those guys, then what are we doing and why are we doing it?

The moves haven't destroyed us, but they're cause for concern that management is undoing the good things that Hextall while not optimally addressing the weaknesses he left behind him. And the short-sightedness on the part of a huge chunk of the fanbase is making my eyes bleed. It's as if they didn't have to live through other inflated 2nd tier free agent acquisitions on expensive longterm contracts over the years that went south. Luke Richardson. Chris Gratton. Mike Rathje. Ilya Bryzgalov. Andrew MacDonald.

when we sign those guys...I'll be right there with you. I was there then.

Imo...Hayes will be a very effective contributor to a Stanley cup contender. He's not the catalyst. We are not getting a catalyst without growing them. Hopefully we already have them.

 

[achdumeingute]

There's no doubt in my mind that Couturier would get 7 X 13M if he hit the open market.

at age 30...yuk. even today...that's a little yuk. I could see 11aav.

 

[Curufinwe]

Pray for reduced max contracts in the next CBA.

I think the owners will fight for 5/6 max term, which would be ideal as a fan.

 

[baudib1]

at age 30...yuk. even today...that's a little yuk. I could see 11aav.

For a hometown discount, no, for a Selke-caliber 1C and assuming the cap keeps going up, yeah I think that's what he'll get. McDavid's next contract will be in the $15M AAV range.

 

[mja]

if Patrick and Frost hit their ceilings...it will be G, Jake,and Couturier that are the cost...not those 2.

 

[Curufinwe]

so you would be cool giving him 8 years for say 9aav?

Maybe. And it's probably tempting fate to assume Couturier will just churn out one 75 point season after another.

Giroux's point totals certainly didn't stay that consistent, and he was working with a built base of 19+ PPP.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?rep...team.4&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=ppPoints

 

[Curufinwe]

Couturier will be 29-30. Couture really the only example of a center who got an 8 year deal as a 30 year old that I can think of. Kessler got a 6 year deal as a 31 year old. Backlund just got a 6 year deal at 29. A lot of other guys were 26-28 when they got theirs.

Kopitar got 8 x $10m (14%) on a deal starting when he was 29.

Anze Kopitar - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Speaking of point totals not being consistent, these are Kopitars recent seasons

Age 26 - 70
Age 27 - 64
Age 28 - 74
Age 29 - 52
Age 30 - 92
Age 31 - 60

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

First line centers are a lot harder to find then top line winger. Could Frost or Patrick step in and replace everything Couturier brings to the table? Debatable.
Sure he takes a pounding. So does Bergeron and he is still a elite top guy that you just cant replace

 

[mja]

when we sign those guys...I'll be right there with you. I was there then.

Imo...Hayes will be a very effective contributor to a Stanley cup contender. He's not the catalyst. We are not getting a catalyst without growing them. Hopefully we already have them.

ALL of those guys were being sold back then just like Hayes is now. Richardson was the steady minute-eating vet while Gratton was a young power forward at center that just came off a 30 goal season. Ilya Bryzgalov was supposed to be our starter for half a decade and A-Mac was going to step right in and be a defensive stalwart leading the 2nd pair. These things go south as much if not more than they don't.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I think the owners will fight for 5/6 max term, which would be ideal as a fan.

The players would never bend to 5 year max deals.

 

[deadhead]

You almost never get a top guy who puts you over the top in UFA or trades.

What you usually see are good but not great players filling holes (Chicago, Hossa and Campbell), LA (Carter and Richards), Pit (Kessel), STl (ROR). Are any of these players HOF candidates?

Hayes is not an acquisition to put us over the top, if the kids don't develop, no free agent can do that job.
Toronto added JT and didn't even move the needle. 105 to 100 points and another 1st rd exit - because to pay for JT, they let Bozak, JVR, Komarov, Martin and Polak walk.

Hayes and JVR add depth to the front 6/9.
Niskanen and Braun are patches to buy time for the kids to develop.
It's still going to come down to the kids.

 

[achdumeingute]

g will be 34 going to UFA. Jake will be 32, 2 more years at 8m. Couts...as we are discussing... what is the term.

If Patrick and Frost are 80pt level players...I don't think its absurd they get the money.

 

[deadhead]

The players would never bend to 5 year max deals.

They might, only a few players get those 7/8 year max deals anyway.
Players might want more total money, less going to a few top players.

 

[Curufinwe]

The players would never bend to 5 year max deals.

They already dropped from 14 year deals to 7/8.

 

[achdumeingute]

You almost never get a top guy who puts you over the top in UFA or trades.

What you usually see are good but not great players filling holes (Chicago, Hossa and Campbell), LA (Carter and Richards), Pit (Kessel), STl (ROR). Are any of these players HOF candidates?

Hayes is not an acquisition to put us over the top, if the kids don't develop, no free agent can do that job.
Toronto added JT and didn't even move the needle. 105 to 100 points and another 1st rd exit - because to pay for JT, they let Bozak, JVR, Komarov, Martin and Polak walk.

Hayes and JVR add depth to the front 6/9.
Niskanen and Braun are patches to buy time for the kids to develop.
It's still going to come down to the kids.

100% agree.

 

[mja]

g will be 34 going to UFA. Jake will be 32, 2 more years at 8m. Couts...as we are discussing... what is the term.

If Patrick and Frost are 80pt level players...I don't think its absurd they get the money.

Sure, let's unceremoniously dump off the best player we've had since prime Lindros because Kevin Hayes was out there for the taking. Couturier? Who needs a 1C-caliber Selke candidate anyway.

 

[achdumeingute]

ALL of those guys were being sold back then just like Hayes is now. Richardson was the steady minute-eating vet while Gratton was a young power forward at center that just came off a 30 goal season. Ilya Bryzgalov was supposed to be our starter for half a decade and A-Mac was going to step right in and be a defensive stalwart leading the 2nd pair. These things go south as much if not more than they don't.

imo there were questions about all those guys when they were brought on.

(I thought Bryz would be better than he turned out...never worth the deal he got though).

Is there any question about Hayes being a solid player?

 

[achdumeingute]

Sure, let's unceremoniously dump off the best player we've had since prime Lindros because Kevin Hayes was out there for the taking. Couturier? Who needs a 1C-caliber Selke candidate anyway.

it's a business. Wayne train was huge for us for the last 5 years. He gone now...

 

[baudib1]

Never been more disappointed in a young player than Gratton, what a disaster that guy was.

 

[baudib1]

I'll be livid if G doesn't get to gracefully exit with the Flyers a la Stevie Y or Sakic.