Confirmed with Link: Kevin Hayes 4: Don't sell when it only costs 50 million dollars to buy in (7x7.14)

[Starat327]

we are going to rise on the backs of Patrick, Frost, provorov, Sanheim (and others in the sub 26 age group) jumping to the next level. If they don't take that jump no UFAs or draft picks will fix anything in the next 5 years.

If Frost and Patrick push Hayes to an overpaid 3c role...we should be happy.

While I agree that if we win anything, itll be on the backs of the kids(ive echoed this often on the trade boards, feel free), I think it's highly unlikely that we do it with these moves weve made, and even less u likely now that weve locked what would be a 'core' player an/or asset out of tje expansion draft because of the NMC ramifications.

 

[Starat327]

OK. If this happens then I'll reciprocate with strippers and blow in Vegas.

Well f***, now I feel inadequate and insignificant. Way to go full Vegas on me, ya dick.

 

[hystyk1921]

The good news is that if Hart actually sucks, this doesn't really matter anyway.


Ok maybe not good news. I guess we'll call that intimidating but neutral information.

Behind hart, Sandstrom then Ustimenko. However, Ersson could be as good as Hart or better. To me there is no point of drafting any player, if you go out and make deals like this. I don’t see Allison or laczynski signing here now. I agree with several posts above. I would rather be wrong about this deal and see this team play great. I don’t see how this team got faster and more skilled. If Hayes is on the 3rd line by January, and any of the prospects out play him. What a disaster it will be, I would rather be wrong.

 

[The Madrigal]

Last three seasons

Matt Duchene
242 games
170 points
0.702 ppg
Per 82 games - 58 points

Kevin Hayes
223 games
147 points
0.659 ppg
Per 82 games - 54 points

Glad the Fyers didn't do something really stupid like pay an extra 3 million on aav (give or take) for that extra few points a season.

 

[Starat327]

Behind hart, Sandstrom then Ustimenko. However, Ersson could be as good as Hart or better. To me there is no point of drafting any player, if you go out and make deals like this. I don’t see Allison or laczynski signing here now. I agree with several posts above. I would rather be wrong about this deal and see this team play great. I don’t see how this team got faster and more skilled. If Hayes is on the 3rd line by January, and any of the prospects out play him. What a disaster it will be, I would rather be wrong.

Youre thinking way too far ahead. Allison and Laczynski are two years away from being two years away and are therefore insignificant.

You know, like Connor sheary, drafted in the third round of the 2013 draft but has still managed 43 points in 41 playoff games since. Most of them against... oh wow. Us.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Wonder how much Hayes’ agent triggered Dave Scott when he leaked that Arizona & Columbus were options to Seravalli?

 

[Starat327]

Wonder how much Hayes’ agent triggered Dave Scott when he leaked that Arizona & Columbus were options to Seravalli?

One young top 4 d man's worth.

 

[achdumeingute]

While I agree that if we win anything, itll be on the backs of the kids(ive echoed this often on the trade boards, feel free), I think it's highly unlikely that we do it with these moves weve made, and even less u likely now that weve locked what would be a 'core' player an/or asset out of tje expansion draft because of the NMC ramifications.

I don't think we were seriously contending in the next two years. As is...with AV I thought we could be a fringe PO team.

Imo the 3 moves have put us in a better depth position immediately.

When it comes to the ED...if we pay a first and maybe a depth prospect...perhaps we avoid any major NHL roster player hit. By that point we will have to be trading someone..as a veteran like TK will be blocking a kid at that point. We move TK, we move the kid..we still get assets back. One year of trading out assets to SEA won't affect the NHL roster for another 3-4 years. Im of the opinion we will be fine as long as we don't start trading all picks a la 2008.

 

[Starat327]

I don't think we were seriously contending in the next two years. As is...with AV I thought we could be a fringe PO team.

Imo the 3 moves have put us in a better depth position immediately.

When it comes to the ED...if we pay a first and maybe a depth prospect...perhaps we avoid any major NHL roster player hit. By that point we will have to be trading someone..as a veteran like TK will be blocking a kid at that point. We move TK, we move the kid..we still get assets back. One year of trading out assets to SEA won't affect the NHL roster for another 3-4 years. Im of the opinion we will be fine as long as we don't start trading all picks a la 2008.

So, there are a multitude of problems with this philosophy. The big one being the bolded. I get that comcast is pushing us against the needle here and we have to take at least a portion of these moves with that in mind. And while I buy the idea of bringing in an experienced top 4 RHD in Niskanen to support the core young defensemen, two of those moves are just way too much, with the bolded in mind, and given our roster make up.

The problem with this is now we are undoubtedly giving up a young core player in the ED. Theres no way around it, unless Fletcher can arrange a miracle. Given his history, I'm skeptical at best that Fletcher can win an expansion draft trade (see: history) or an trade/negotiation at all (see: even more recent history).

If you dont see the flyers winning the cup in the next two years before the ED, then these moves are a massive failure against our future, made to placate the "I want to win a playoff series" crowd that is driving our owners to make poor hockey decisions.

 

[baudib1]

I think with the coaching changes, a full year of Hart, etc.,we were going to be an average playoff team with a legit shot to win the division. Teams in that position can win the Cup, like the Blues, but honestly don't think these moves make it that more likely. Maybe we go from 5% to 6.5% or something.

IMO the best way to bet set up to be a Cup favorite by 2021 was to make sure Frost/Farabee/Myers/Morin were READY -- get them full regular season work, a playoff run, and reassess what is most needed. Kinda like the spot where Calgary and Carolina are in right now.

Now? We'll be trying to keep this core together desperately and have less flexibility to tweak as needed. If this organization is good enough now, well, I'll be happy to be wrong.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

One young top 4 d man's worth.

With all the talk of no one wants to come here he pulls out two small market teams that really no one is ever interested in to shame the organization into upping the offer.

 

[Starat327]

With all the talk of no one wants to come here he pulls out two small market teams that really no one is ever interested in to shame the organization into upping the offer.

Flyers: we really want to sign you. Heres an overpaid deal.

Hayes: yeah, but the coyotes are a young, up and coming team..

Flyers: Dont worry, well give you a NMC so that you know we wont trade you there as a cap dump.

HfFlyers: But guys, we might win a playoff series!

 

[PhlthyRich]

I think with the coaching changes, a full year of Hart, etc.,we were going to be an average playoff team with a legit shot to win the division. Teams in that position can win the Cup, like the Blues, but honestly don't think these moves make it that more likely. Maybe we go from 5% to 6.5% or something.

IMO the best way to bet set up to be a Cup favorite by 2021 was to make sure Frost/Farabee/Myers/Morin were READY -- get them full regular season work, a playoff run, and reassess what is most needed. Kinda like the spot where Calgary and Carolina are in right now.

Now? We'll be trying to keep this core together desperately and have less flexibility to tweak as needed. If this organization is good enough now, well, I'll be happy to be wrong.

If we can get our PP going again and really improve our PK on top of all your points, I can see a solid bounce back year. Just gotta stay healthy too!

 

[Nabrules]

So, there are a multitude of problems with this philosophy. The big one being the bolded. I get that comcast is pushing us against the needle here and we have to take at least a portion of these moves with that in mind. And while I buy the idea of bringing in an experienced top 4 RHD in Niskanen to support the core young defensemen, two of those moves are just way too much, with the bolded in mind, and given our roster make up.

The problem with this is now we are undoubtedly giving up a young core player in the ED. Theres no way around it, unless Fletcher can arrange a miracle. Given his history, I'm skeptical at best that Fletcher can win an expansion draft trade (see: history) or an trade/negotiation at all (see: even more recent history).

If you dont see the flyers winning the cup in the next two years before the ED, then these moves are a massive failure against our future, made to placate the "I want to win a playoff series" crowd that is driving our owners to make poor hockey decisions.

If we go the 7F, 3D, 1G route we protect
-G, Coots, Hayes, Patrick, Konecny, Lindbolm, Voracek
-Provorov, Sanheim, Myers
- Hart

Then we make a deal to Seattle not to take Ghost (hopefully we don’t trade him). give them picks/prospects.

 

[achdumeingute]

So, there are a multitude of problems with this philosophy. The big one being the bolded. I get that comcast is pushing us against the needle here and we have to take at least a portion of these moves with that in mind. And while I buy the idea of bringing in an experienced top 4 RHD in Niskanen to support the core young defensemen, two of those moves are just way too much, with the bolded in mind, and given our roster make up.

The problem with this is now we are undoubtedly giving up a young core player in the ED. Theres no way around it, unless Fletcher can arrange a miracle. Given his history, I'm skeptical at best that Fletcher can win an expansion draft trade (see: history) or an trade/negotiation at all (see: even more recent history).

If you dont see the flyers winning the cup in the next two years before the ED, then these moves are a massive failure against our future, made to placate the "I want to win a playoff series" crowd that is driving our owners to make poor hockey decisions.

4-4 or 7-3...we were exposing a young player either way. There was no getting around that.

However, the Hayes deal makes 4-4 imo not useable. So we either pay to keep our D or trade one before the draft.

I think your "massive" hit to the future is a bit of an exaggeration.

 

[mja]

If we got the 7F, 3D, 1G route We protect
-G, Coots, Hayes, Patrick, Konecny, Lindbolm, Voracek
-Provorov, Sanheim, Myers
- Hart

Then we make a deal to Seattle not to take Ghost. give them picks/prospects.

So, what you're saying is that signing Hayes with a NMC is either going to cost us 1 of the 4 young defenseman, or 1 of top 6 forwards, or picks/prospects tempting enough to Seattle to get them to pass on one of those two options. So much for Hayes not costing us any assets.

 

[achdumeingute]

If we go the 7F, 3D, 1G route we protect
-G, Coots, Hayes, Patrick, Konecny, Lindbolm, Voracek
-Provorov, Sanheim, Myers
- Hart

Then we make a deal to Seattle not to take Ghost (hopefully we don’t trade him). give them picks/prospects.

exactly. We can afford a first and a prospect to keep the NHL roster as intact as possible.

 

[Cable]

Seriously, Ron Hextall is probably in Edmonton, Alberta on vacation at his log cabin, which he's been at since the Flyers let him go a few months back. After a couple days out in the wilderness fishing, hunting, skinny dipping, basically just enjoying his free time before he decides his future.

When he arrived back at his cabin, he started to feel woozy, so he goes into his kitchen area, reaches into his fridge, grabs an icy cold Killian's Irish Red, cracks it open, takes a swig and instantly feels like Wesley Snipes from Blade.

He then precedes to pull out his favorite Voila microwave dinner, puts it on a plate and while he waits for it to heat up, he goes into his personal Hockey Library full of Flyers, Kings and Nordiques gear from his playing and GM days, sits on his rocking chair and turns on the NHL Network where he immediately hears the great Brian Lawton explain the recent moves current Flyers GM Chuck Fletcher has made since the off-season began.

One by one: Brain Lawton Reads.

1. Flyers trade a 2019 5th round draft pick to Winnipeg Jets for upcoming Free Agent Kevin Hayes. Hextall in his Austin Powers voice starts laughing uncontrollably knocking over his signed autograph bobblehead figurine of Paul Holmgren.

2. Then he hears. Flyers trade Radko Gudas to rival Washington Capitals for Matt Niskanen while also retaining some of Radko's salary. Hextall starts to shake his head when he realized how stupid this move truly was. Taking on an aging veteran who had bad Corsi numbers for the last two years. Where as, Gudas was our best defensemen.

3. After shaking his head for a few minutes, Hextall then hears. Flyers trade an 2019 2nd round pick & 2020 3rd pick for San Jose Sharks, Justin Braun. Hextall in shock starts to clap and is happy about the move, but common rational sense kicked in when he remembers this isn't 2015 when he was a rockstar on the back end instead it's 2019 where he became the worst Sharks defensemen. In a fit of rage, Hextall turns around gets up and punches a hole in the wall and tears his signed Bobby Clarke poster that's been sacred to him since he was 21 year-old rookie.

4. But, then, Brian Lawton announces breaking news, the Flyers have just signed Free Agent Kevin Hayes to a 7 x 7.14 million dollar contract with a NMC. Hextall gets up, swigs his last drop of Killian's, goes into the kitchen, grabs his Voila dinner from the microwave which had been beeping for a while, and throws it outside hitting a massive sized bear. Ron thought, I'm screwed, but the bear smiled back and says "at least you're not f'd like the Flyers fans are with Chuck Fletcher as their GM," Ron smiles, goes back inside the cabin and sleeps like a baby panda hoping that the Flyers draft will be much better than the rest of the off-season thus far because he loves the Organization and our fans.

 

[achdumeingute]

So, what you're saying is that signing Hayes with a NMC is either going to cost us 1 of the 4 young defenseman, or 1 of top 6 forwards, or picks/prospects tempting enough to Seattle to get them to pass on one of those two options. So much for Hayes not costing us any assets.

in the example, doing 7 -3 replace Hayes with JVR. No difference to D situation.

With 4-4....Couts G Patrick TK. Lindblom is exposed...

 

[PhlthyRich]

Seriously, Ron Hextall is probably in Edmonton, Alberta on vacation at his log cabin, which he's been at since the Flyers let him go a few months back. After a couple days out in the wilderness fishing, hunting, skinny dipping, basically just enjoying his free time before he decides his future.

When he arrived back at his cabin, he started to feel woozy, so he goes into his kitchen area, reaches into his fridge, grabs an icy cold Killian's Irish Red, cracks it open, takes a swig and instantly feels like Wesley Snipes from Blade.

He then precedes to pull out his favorite Voila microwave dinner, puts it on a plate and while he waits for it to heat up, he goes into his personal Hockey Library full of Flyers, Kings and Nordiques gear from his playing and GM days, sits on his rocking chair and turns on the NHL Network where he immediately hears the great Brian Lawton explain the recent moves current Flyers GM Chuck Fletcher has made since the off-season began.

One by one: Brain Lawton Reads.

1. Flyers trade a 2019 5th round draft pick to Winnipeg Jets for upcoming Free Agent Kevin Hayes. Hextall in his Austin Powers voice starts laughing uncontrollably knocking over his signed autograph bobblehead figurine of Paul Holmgren.

2. Then he hears. Flyers trade Radko Gudas to rival Washington Capitals for Matt Niskanen while also retaining some of Radko's salary. Hextall starts to shake his head when he realized how stupid this move truly was. Taking on an aging veteran who had bad Corsi numbers for the last two years. Where as, Gudas was our best defensemen.

3. After shaking his head for a few minutes, Hextall then hears. Flyers trade an 2019 2nd round pick & 2020 3rd pick for San Jose Sharks, Justin Braun. Hextall in shock starts to clap and is happy about the move, but common rational sense kicked in when he remembers this isn't 2015 when he was a rockstar on the back end instead it's 2019 where he became the worst Sharks defensemen. In a fit of rage, Hextall turns around gets up and punches a hole in the wall and tears his signed Bobby Clarke poster that's been sacred to him since he was 21 year-old rookie.

4. But, then, Brian Lawton announces breaking news, the Flyers have just signed Free Agent Kevin Hayes to a 7 x 7.14 million dollar contract with a NMC. Hextall gets up, swigs his last drop of Killian's, goes into the kitchen, grabs his Voila dinner from the microwave which had been beeping for a while, and throws it outside hitting a massive sized bear. Ron thought, I'm screwed, but the bear smiled back and says "at least you're not f'd like the Flyers fans are with Chuck Fletcher as their GM," Ron smiles, goes back inside the cabin and sleeps like a baby panda hoping that the Flyers draft will be much better than the rest of the off-season thus far because he loves the Organization and our fans.

what you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul

 

[Starat327]

If we got the 7F, 3D, 1G route We protect
-G, Coots, Hayes, Patrick, Konecny, Lindbolm, Voracek
-Provorov, Sanheim, Myers
- Hart

Then we make a deal to Seattle not to take Ghost. give them picks/prospects.

Even if Ghost 'only' played at his current level, theres absolutely no reason to take a combination of picks or prospects over an impact, top pair defender, unless they are getting a worthwhile return.

Go and ask how many Ducks fan wish they still had Shea Theodore.


Yes, were going to lose a good player in the draft. That idea isnt lost on me. But we just lost the ability to control that loss by guaranteeing an average player a spot on the roster beforehand.

 

[Nabrules]

in the example, doing 7 -3 replace Hayes with JVR. No difference to D situation.

With 4-4....Couts G Patrick TK. Lindblom is exposed...

Exactly. As long Farabee, Frost, Myers, Ratcliffe, and Myers hit Close to their ceilings and whoever we draft in 2019 and 2020 are players, there shouldn’t be an issue trading our 2021 pick to save our current roster

 

[Starat327]

4-4 or 7-3...we were exposing a young player either way. There was no getting around that.

However, the Hayes deal makes 4-4 imo not useable. So we either pay to keep our D or trade one before the draft.

I think your "massive" hit to the future is a bit of an exaggeration.

The problem is, we have a few potential good forwards in the pipeline.

We dont have any good D prospects in the pipeline( this ultimately depends on where you rate Hogberg, I guess). And none, from the rankings ive seen this year, warrant a high pick that could 'step in' after the draft, so that's not helpful.

Meanwhile, we could draft one next year I guess, but if wer drafting high enough to get s rookie, i.oactdul defenseman, does that really validate the moves we made this year?

 

[PhlthyRich]

Even if Ghost 'only' played at his current level, theres absolutely no reason to take a combination of picks or prospects over an impact, top pair defender, unless they are getting a worthwhile return.

Go and ask how many Ducks fan wish they still had Shea Theodore.


Yes, were going to lose a good player in the draft. That idea isnt lost on me. But we just lost the ability to control that loss by guaranteeing an average player a spot on the roster beforehand.

If it's a forward we lose we can always bring home Johnny Hockey two years later (?) he loves the flyers and he's homeboys with Hayes

 

[Ghosts Beer]

4-4 or 7-3...we were exposing a young player either way. There was no getting around that.

However, the Hayes deal makes 4-4 imo not useable. So we either pay to keep our D or trade one before the draft.

I think your "massive" hit to the future is a bit of an exaggeration.

It’s utterly embarrassing.