Confirmed with Link: Kessel signs Contract Extension. (8x8)

[TeamBester]

One thing to keep in mind is that we always talk in absolutes when it comes to salary. However, what agents and players really look at in the end is how much they pocket after taxes.

In Ontario, taxes are much higher then other provinces in Canada and most if not all the states in the US. So the tax bite is higher and impacts teams like the Maple Leafs who have to pay higher salary's to overcome the discrepancy and thus encourage their players to stay (or attract free agents).

So what Kessel pockets in Toronto at 8mm he could pocket the same for a lower salary in, say Edmonton, Pittsburg or Boston.


In that sense, the Leafs are penalized since the cap goes farther for teams like Boston and Edmonton and accounts for why they often have to overpay in absolute salary numbers to attract/retain their talent.

Maybe you could explain to me why Edm is handing out 6 million a year on second contracts, and Kadri signed for less than 3??

I also don't think agents take any of this into consideration when they are trying to get max money for their clients.

Edit: I'm going to guess an agents commission doesn't change depending on what team the player signs with.

 

[Swarez]

One thing to keep in mind is that we always talk in absolutes when it comes to salary. However, what agents and players really look at in the end is how much they pocket after taxes.

In Ontario, taxes are much higher then other provinces in Canada and most if not all the states in the US. So the tax bite is higher and impacts teams like the Maple Leafs who have to pay higher salary's to overcome the discrepancy and thus encourage their players to stay (or attract free agents).

So what Kessel pockets in Toronto at 8mm he could pocket the same for a lower salary in, say Edmonton, Pittsburg or Boston.


In that sense, the Leafs are penalized since the cap goes farther for teams like Boston and Edmonton and accounts for why they often have to overpay in absolute salary numbers to attract/retain their talent.

If you compare us to the lowest income tax area in North America (Alberta), its about a $15,000 difference for the first million, than about $65,000 difference for every million on top of that. Keep in mind that is only for athletes who earn half there incomes on the road, and can do other things to lower there taxes (although NHL doesn't do them, NBA and MLB do).

NYC (which there will soon be two teams), California and Quebec pay higher rates than us at top level which Kessel would fall under. So that is 5 current teams plus Ottawa and soon NYI that will be higher rate or same level of tax as us. Other states that are within a couple % that have teams, MN, DC, NJ, NY, NC.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

Really does seem like a substantial overpayment for a ppg player that's pretty terrible away from the puck.

I don't care if another GM or two signed similar players to stupid contracts. Their fans should be angry at them for those stupid contracts.
In this case, I'm angry at my GM for giving out yet another stupid contract.
This team is going to be in cap hell down the road.

 

[Dreakmur]

Maybe you could explain to me why Edm is handing out 6 million a year on second contracts, and Kadri signed for less than 3??

Maybe because they are handing them out to Jordan Eberle and Taylor Hall instead of Nazem Kadri...

 

[LEAFSIN4]

LOLOLOLOLOL.

you gotta be kidding me - how many 8M players do the Hawks/Kings/Bruins have again?

Doughty's at 7 mil, 1 mil difference isn't much. Toews and Kane will be paid 7-8 mil each soon enough.

NHL revenues are raising each season... I know HRR is calculated differently now, but you'll still see the cap increase.

 

[Swervin81]

Really does seem like a substantial overpayment for a ppg player that's pretty terrible away from the puck.

I don't care if another GM or two signed similar players to stupid contracts. Their fans should be angry at them for those stupid contracts.
In this case, I'm angry at my GM for giving out yet another stupid contract.
This team is going to be in cap hell down the road.

In the previous CBA, this would've been for 12+ years at <$7M per year with the back diving and cap circumvention. This CBA closed that, so everyone is getting paid. Getzlaf gof $8.5M, Perry got $8.625M, Giroux got $8.25M, and Malkin got $9.5M. There's not very many contracts to compare this to just because there is a big difference between CBA's.

If you were to look at adjusted cap hits (cap hits with any contract signed to more than 7/8 years reduced to the first 7/8 years because of back diving circumvention), Parise is making north of $10M (2nd highest) and Kessel is somewhere in the low teens (16th-19th).

We all know that Kessel would be, in all likelihood, a 40-45G and 90pt player if he wasn't stuck with Bozo the clown as his C (i.e. an actual #1C), and giving how often you rip Bozak apart around here, you seem to be aware that he is a liability.

I agree that he is bad off the puck (improved under Carlyle, but still bad), but his offensive skillset is elite. His shooting/scoring, passing, and skating are all high up there, and he's a playoff performer. He also is able to elevate the offensive plays of everyone he plays with. Bozak is a 50 pt player despite having no business being on a first line (something that you harp on a lot), JVR was on pace for career highs, and he played a big role in Lupul's resurgence a couple of years ago (even though Lupul has since proven he doesn't need Kessel).

Kessel is a lot like Mike Gartner, and Gartner didn't have a half bad career, now did he?

 

[BayStreetBullies*]

Really does seem like a substantial overpayment for a ppg player that's pretty terrible away from the puck.

I don't care if another GM or two signed similar players to stupid contracts. Their fans should be angry at them for those stupid contracts.
In this case, I'm angry at my GM for giving out yet another stupid contract.
This team is going to be in cap hell down the road.

Yep, I called this one. Bless you for being so predictable D.O.

 

[EDDIE20*]

Really does seem like a substantial overpayment for a ppg player that's pretty terrible away from the puck.

I don't care if another GM or two signed similar players to stupid contracts. Their fans should be angry at them for those stupid contracts.
In this case, I'm angry at my GM for giving out yet another stupid contract.
This team is going to be in cap hell down the road.

Right on cue!

You're angry, period. Nonis cannot do anything right according to you. Why not cheer for another team....

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

Right on cue!

You're angry, period. Nonis cannot do anything right according to you. Why not cheer for another team....

I don't think Nonis can do anything right?

I supported the Bolland trade right from the get go.
I thought the Grabo buyout was a good thing (well... until he replaced that terrible contract with an even worse contract.)
I LOVED the Bernier signing.
Thought Kadri contract was reasonable.

You see... I'm not a biased fan. I don't blindly supporting everything our GM does because I "likey like" the maple leafs.
When Nonis makes good decisions, I correctly applaud him for it (all while shaking my head at biased fans of other teams criticizing him).
When Nonis makes idiotic decisions, I correctly criticize him for it. (all while shaking my head at biased leaf fans applauding him).

I've always been fascinated at the strength at which bias drives people. It's simply fascinating.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

Because bandwagoners are a cowardly and superstitious lot. His eternal pessimism must strike terror into the heart of his "enemies".

How on earth am I "bandwagoning" or being "pessimistic"?

I'm a person objectively discussing a hockey team that has missed the playoffs 7 of the past 8 seasons, and has won ZERO playoff series in 8 years.
If I sound "pessimistic" during my objective assessments, that's the TEAMS fault, not mine.

The funny thing is that I was CORRECT in almost all my criticisms of this disgraceful team for the past 8 years.
When somebody's proven CORRECT in their criticisms, they clearly weren't being 'pessimistic'. They were correctly, objectively, and intelligently telling it like it was.

Those that didn't like hearing the truth would call the objective rationalists like me "trolls" and other childish names.
Even now that my intelligent logical criticisms were proven almost entirely CORRECT, I'm still ridiculed by the biased ones. Words like "pessimist" and "bandwagoner".

I guess what I'm trying to say, Baystreetbullies, is that I apologize if my 100% correct assessments for 8 straight years make you feel small and weak enough to resort to name calling.
My advice is this, baystreetbullies... some people out there are going to be much smarter and have much better critical thinking skills than you. They will be able to look at things much more objectively than you, with much less bias than you. When those people are proven correct, and you're proven wrong, (again and again and again and again), don't result to name calling. Instead, take a moment in self reflection and try figure out WHY you're always wrong. Try to IDENTIFY the biases that are controlling you. Try to overcome those demons and strive to be better.
Heed my advice or not. All I can do is offer it.

 

[pspot]

I don't mind saying I think its a bad contract. Term and Amount are to much for what Kessel brings. Best way i can describe it is without Toews i'm not sure you commit to Kane and I think Kane is better than Kessel everything considered. Its a risk.

This could easily be Heatley/Gaborik in 3 years

but RN and RC made a call and the team is winning so time to move on with this one

 

[EDDIE20*]

Kessel signed for the going rate. I never expected him to give the team a discount nor should he.

For those complaining about his contract, I'd like to know who can easily replace him for a cheaper price? Some Sens fan on the trade board suggested that there were 40 goal scorers who would sign for less (mind you, he's a Sens fan so his opinion means ****). I'd like to know what the better options were for replacing Kessel if he had decided to talk.

 

[pspot]

Brunner is a potential 30 goal scorer he signed for 2.5 as an ufa
Wheeler is a 5.6 as a rfa

me personally I would have traded Kessel rather than sign him long term at franchise type money and keeping his buddy bozak

but they didn't and its over and happy to watch a competitive leafs team

 

[Vexed]

Brunner is a potential 30 goal scorer he signed for 2.5 as an ufa
Wheeler is a 5.6 as a rfa

me personally I would have traded Kessel rather than sign him long term at franchise type money and keeping his buddy bozak

but they didn't and its over and happy to watch a competitive leafs team

lol those are your comparables?

I'm sorry but those aren't comparables at all. Neither is close to Kessel tbh

 

[ULF_55]

This thread is about Kessel's contract extension not other posters.

Stay on topic!

 

[EDDIE20*]

lol those are your comparables?

I'm sorry but those aren't comparables at all. Neither is close to Kessel tbh

If Brunner is so great, why didn't Detroit sign him? He's a potential 30 goal scorer maybe but has yet to prove it. We know what we've got in Kessel.

 

[pspot]

If Brunner is so great, why didn't Detroit sign him? He's a potential 30 goal scorer maybe but has yet to prove it. We know what we've got in Kessel.

Kessel is a potential 40 goal scorer but yet to prove it
but he's now being paid as if he has scored 40 goals, won an league individual award, lead his team to significant success.

Not saying he can't but you pay hoping he does achieve 1 of those things and possibly maintain it for multiple years. that's the risk Nonis had to weigh and he feels confident that Kessel will prove his worth.

I know its the reality of pro sports these days I just don't like that that's the reason to sign these contracts. I'd rather they take a team approach (multiple good players) until they get one of those franchise type players.

 

[EDDIE20*]

Maybe because they are handing them out to Jordan Eberle and Taylor Hall insYtead of Nazem Kadri...

Yeah and Hall/Eberle have brought the Oilers so far since being drafted by the team....

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Great. 7x7 would have been better but I wont complain.

 

[Dreakmur]

Yeah and Hall/Eberle have brought the Oilers so far since being drafted by the team....

If team success is the primary factor in awarding contracts, why did Kessel get 8x8?

 

[TeamBester]

Maybe because they are handing them out to Jordan Eberle and Taylor Hall instead of Nazem Kadri...

I was leaning toward their most recent signing in RNH, which has pretty well done squat.

 

[TeamBester]

Amazing re signing by Nonis, top 3 Leaf in the last two decades.

 

[EDDIE20*]

If team success is the primary factor in awarding contracts, why did Kessel get 8x8?

Why did the Edmonton 3 get $6M per?

 

[Dreakmur]

Why did the Edmonton 3 get $6M per?

Same reason Kessel got 8. Read the rest of the argument.

 

[hockeywiz542]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...ifferent_than_talks_with_phil_kessel_cox.html

A final note on the Kessel deal; talks really started Saturday night after the final exhibition game when GM Dave Nonis made an offer to Kessel’s agent, Wade Arnott. The Kessel camp started around $8.6 million a year, while Toronto’s first office came in just below $8 million per. They sawed it off at $8 million, and a big element in the final deal for the Leafs was not giving Kessel a full no-movement clause.

The Leafs have some flexibility in the future if the deal doesn’t work out. Kessel has to submit a list of eight teams every year to which he’d be willing to be traded.