Confirmed with Link: Kessel and a 4th to Arizona for Galchenyuk and PO Joseph

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I still think he's an elite talent and doesn't necessarily have to rack up big goal totals to still be a premier player, regardless. And I agree that him losing a step has certainly attributed to his decline in goal scoring. Though I don't mean he isn't getting shots off. Only that there isn't the same thing behind them as there was a couple seasons ago.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Uh huh.

Say, Kessel's gone and all of Johnson, Malkin and Schultz have better underlying numbers now. How do you know you don't have causality reversed? That part of their poor even strength numbers wasn't as a result of being made to play with Kessel?

This is a question you never bothered to ask because you started with "Kessel is 'an elite producer' so everything must be the fault of other people" and worked backwards from it. There's nothing rational about thinking this way.

I never bothered to ask? If I said "Kessel has always been a bad defensive player who needs to be insulated" any more I might as well tattoo it on my forehead. Extra extra, bad defensive players make each other worse.

The reason you retain a player like Kessel is because of his elite production, you simply have to complement him properly...like we had in previous years. The irony is that the team instead bends over backwards to insulate goobers like JJ who dont do anything well.

I mean this is a textbook. Arizona trades for a big money scorer you have some personal attachment to in the hopes he would help them score more, he doesn't help them score more, then you blame Arizona's lack of offense for him not doing his job.

Arizona's PP has improved, ours has taken a nosedive, Kessel has more PP points than anyone on our team and our only winger with more points is Guentzel, who plays beside Crosby every night.

Arizona is better and the Pens are worse for having made that trade.

People acted like our PP wouldn't miss a beat and that Kessel's production there was riding coattails. Clearly not the case.

 

[Tender Rip]

Oh, put a sock in it biscuit, seriously .
As if Kessel ever saved our PP when the truly transformative guys were out.

Makes no sense comparing and speculating when the current iteration is short Sid, Letang and Horny, and has consistently been missing main pieces all season.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Oh, put a sock in it biscuit, seriously .
As if Kessel ever saved our PP when the truly transformative guys were out.

Makes no sense comparing and speculating when the current iteration is short Sid, Letang and Horny, and has consistently been missing main pieces all season.

But that's kind of the point too, TR.

 

[EightyOne]

But that's kind of the point too, TR.

It isn't like Kessel would have driven play on L2 without Malkin. So him healthy wouldn't have helped the team right now anyway.

 

[Tender Rip]

But that's kind of the point too, TR.

You expect injuries with this team, but no way you should expect them to be this significant every time.

You also expect that Gally is not Kessel scoringwise but injured immediately and no goals in 10? Hardly.

Kessel needed to go. That he wasn’t replaced is something else. It doesn’t require talking about Kessel all the time.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm not sure Kessel's issue has to do with his physical capability as much as his unwillingness to give a damn anymore. Dude's got his name on the Cup twice and a ton of money, so he's entirely checked out for the rest of his career.

I'm so glad he's gone. I can handle a guy being bad, even if it sucks to watch him plod around the ice and hurt this team, but when a dude like Kessel simply quits because he doesn't care--screw 'em. Even if Galchenyuk never figures it out, I'll take POJ and the cap space over Phil.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

People have VERY short memories. Kessel had 59 points his first season with the Pens. He only had 43 points through 66 games. He didn't become a point per game player until Malkin got hurt and the HBK line was created a month before that incredible playoff run.

Maybe let's give AG more than 9 games with a new team in a new system before calling him a flop?

You mean when we had Mike "Stifling Offense" Johnson who had Crosby posting some career low numbers?

Yeah, what a joke that Phil Kessel that season that has put up 80+ pts with #1 C's like Tyler Bozak prior to being a Penguin. Who would have thought a guy like Kessel would do well with a 2-way C like a Bozak? Really, there has been zero proof in his career, really. No Bones about it.

Also, it's adorable you forget that same season's playoffs like entirely. Also his entire career before the Pens where he was an 82 and 80pt player with the Leafs.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

I expected more production from Galch.
On the bright side, if he finally starts to play well Midway through the season he will be cheap to re-sign.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I expected more production from Galch.
On the bright side, if he finally starts to play well Midway through the season he will be cheap to re-sign.

Doubt he will be cheap to sign no matter what. If he has a bad season, other GMs will see it as an outlier for a young guy who has been a 20 goal/40 point guy through his career. NHL FA is when GMs toss aside their common sense and try to out stupid each other.

So rest assured he will get paid well, and that’s the problem he presents that has scared me since day one of this trade. He’s a bad deal just waiting to happen that will make people look wistfully on the JJ contract.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Galchenyuk almost definitely isn't re-signing here IMO, I think it's way more likely the Penguins re-sign Schultz (which would be a mistake) than Galchenyuk.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Galchenyuk almost definitely isn't re-signing here IMO, I think it's way more likely the Penguins re-sign Schultz (which would be a mistake) than Galchenyuk.

You're right. Schultz's all-around game is deteriorating rapidly. Let him be replaced internally.

 

[ChaosAgent]

You mean when we had Mike "Stifling Offense" Johnson who had Crosby posting some career low numbers?

Yeah, what a joke that Phil Kessel that season that has put up 80+ pts with #1 C's like Tyler Bozak prior to being a Penguin. Who would have thought a guy like Kessel would do well with a 2-way C like a Bozak? Really, there has been zero proof in his career, really. No Bones about it.

Also, it's adorable you forget that same season's playoffs like entirely. Also his entire career before the Pens where he was an 82 and 80pt player with the Leafs.

Dude HOG, did you take a triple-dose of Tren or DBOL this morning? @kladorf2005 was making a point that we should give Chucky more of a chance and it took time for Phil to be good here. He wasn't bashing Phil.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You expect injuries with this team, but no way you should expect them to be this significant every time.

You also expect that Gally is not Kessel scoringwise but injured immediately and no goals in 10? Hardly.

Kessel needed to go. That he wasn’t replaced is something else. It doesn’t require talking about Kessel all the time.

It's a thread about Kessel.

Letang, Malkin, Hornqvist, and Rust miss a bunch of games every year, and aren't getting any younger. That has been an argument for retaining a durable, productive winger for a long time.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Dude HOG, did you take a triple-dose of Tren or DBOL this morning? @kladorf2005 was making a point that we should give Chucky more of a chance and it took time for Phil to be good here. He wasn't bashing Phil.

Hey man, no drugs. Just an early gym session before I got stuff done. Yes at 2am.

 

[mpp9]

It's a thread about Kessel.

Letang, Malkin, Hornqvist, and Rust miss a bunch of games every year, and aren't getting any younger. That has been an argument for retaining a durable, productive winger for a long time.

To make this a more productive conversation, who would you like the Pens to replace Kessel with long-term?

Assume the Pens are right in moving Kessel and Phil's play continues to deteriorate the next few seasons. And I don't think anyone can argue moving forward, 71 is gonna need some help to continue to be a ppg+ player. The answer isn't looking like AG.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

To make this a more productive conversation, who would you like the Pens to replace Kessel with long-term?

Assume the Pens are right in moving Kessel and Phil's play continues to deteriorate the next few seasons. And I don't think anyone can argue moving forward, 71 is gonna need some help to continue to be a ppg+ player. The answer isn't looking like AG.

I dunno, honestly. Part of why I was so adamant about the Pens keeping Kessel is because established, productive, reasonably-priced RH shot wingers dont exactly grow on trees. What compounds the problem is that Sully is gonna railroad any winger that doesn't play his way.

A guy like Palmieri would probably be our best bet.

 

[EightyOne]

It's a thread about Kessel.

Letang, Malkin, Hornqvist, and Rust miss a bunch of games every year, and aren't getting any younger. That has been an argument for retaining a durable, productive winger for a long time.

I think it's more like you're a thread about Kessel

 

[ChaosAgent]

I dunno, honestly. Part of why I was so adamant about the Pens keeping Kessel is because established, productive, reasonably-priced RH shot wingers dont exactly grow on trees. What compounds the problem is that Sully is gonna railroad any winger that doesn't play his way.

A guy like Palmieri would probably be our best bet.

I dismissed the thought of Eberle last year but after watching him against us in the playoffs he was terrific. Unfortunately the Isles are rolling but if they do sputter in the near future I'd be willing to put together a decent package to get him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I do think the Penguins need a right handed, RW replacement for Kessel. I think Crosby's RW is only a slightly smaller hole than Malkin's LW, so you definitely have a spot for a RHS in your lineup. I just don't think Kessel was even remotely that, at least at ES. Kessel may be a big need on the powerplay, but at ES, he just didn't have a spot here.

In a perfect world, I think you need to get another Rust for McCann's RW, another Guentzel for Malkin's LW and a player like Marchand (a less good version of Marchand of course) for Crosby's RW.

 

[mpp9]

I dunno, honestly. Part of why I was so adamant about the Pens keeping Kessel is because established, productive, reasonably-priced RH shot wingers dont exactly grow on trees. What compounds the problem is that Sully is gonna railroad any winger that doesn't play his way.

A guy like Palmieri would probably be our best bet.

I dunno man. I'd rather us be playing the way we are right now with players who fit the coach's mold. Kessel was a huge help on the PP, but he's simply not going to play the style of hockey we are right now. He really never did outside of a lightning in a bottle period of time in 2016 with HBK. We can find a winger who's somewhere in-between AG and Kessel levels of offense while still fitting the Sullivan mold to an extent.

And yes, I've wanted KP on this team since he was establishing himself with the Ducks.

 

[K Fleur]

Phil Kessel’s corpse is still a better hockey player than Galchenyuk.

But that’s not the full scope of this trade.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I dunno man. I'd rather us be playing the way we are right now with players who fit the coach's mold. Kessel was a huge help on the PP, but he's simply not going to play the style of hockey we are right now. He really never did outside of a lightning in a bottle period of time in 2016 with HBK. We can find a winger who's somewhere in-between AG and Kessel levels of offense while still fitting the Sullivan mold to an extent.

And yes, I've wanted KP on this team since he was establishing himself with the Ducks.

The forwards are too unbalanced on the PP without a right-handed shot on the perimeter. It's comical to see our lefties try to run the PP from the wrong half-wall while being 0 realistic threat to shoot. I had some hope that Letang could actually do it given his outrageous skill level but his slapper is bad and he's hurt anyway. We are so incredibly left-handed it's a joke.

We need a non-Phil skilled righty forward there. If Kovy's contract were up after this year and not next year I'd be on the horn with LA but it's not.

We also need any willing forechecker so PP1 can at least make the opposition contemplate dump & chase as a zone entry strategy. I guess Hornqvist would be one upon returning but they need another. Badly. For now that should make Rust to PP1 a no-brainer. I can't believe the coaches actually used ZAR yesterday.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I dismissed the thought of Eberle last year but after watching him against us in the playoffs he was terrific. Unfortunately the Isles are rolling but if they do sputter in the near future I'd be willing to put together a decent package to get him.

Eberle would be a good one too. Not sure how well he'd get along with Sully, but I'd take a flier on him.

I'd suggest Gusev but that'd be DOA.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I dunno man. I'd rather us be playing the way we are right now with players who fit the coach's mold. Kessel was a huge help on the PP, but he's simply not going to play the style of hockey we are right now. He really never did outside of a lightning in a bottle period of time in 2016 with HBK. We can find a winger who's somewhere in-between AG and Kessel levels of offense while still fitting the Sullivan mold to an extent.

And yes, I've wanted KP on this team since he was establishing himself with the Ducks.

I dont see why we couldnt gave played this way with Kessel here if we had the same injection of Marino, Lafferty, Blueger, Tanev etc.

Not like Galchenyuk has prevented it despite his shortcomings. Biggest difference is that one can score and the other can't.