Pavels Dog
Registered User
Holland is quoted as saying they could roll with 8D if 2 kids push for jobs on D. Yeah they might not be guaranteed top 4 positions for all 82 games, but IF they are ready they will get every chance to play.
Ken Holland's comments on UFA signings and 2018-2019 roster
- Thread starter Heaton
- Start date
MikeyDee
Registered User
One other thing I don't like about the Green and Vanek signings is this:
The Red Wings lead the league in NTC's with.... guess how many.... 10
WTF!!! The next closest team is Tampa with 8, but they are considered a good team! I know it's still the FA signing period so, some teams will add to their totals, but 10!?!
The league average (not counting Detroit) is 3.7.
The Red Wings lead the league in NTC's with.... guess how many.... 10
WTF!!! The next closest team is Tampa with 8, but they are considered a good team! I know it's still the FA signing period so, some teams will add to their totals, but 10!?!
The league average (not counting Detroit) is 3.7.
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If they are "trash" that's even better, they'll drive the garbage truck to the dump and get a top 5 pick. All the while all these hot shot "kids" (who aren't that great) get some experience in the NHL while the old "trash" needs to take a week off and change garbage bags.
Nut Upstrom
You dirty dog!
I get your frustration, but I disagree that it is the same line up. Nearly the same line up maybe to start the season. I think we'll see a greater amount of turnover the next season or two than we will this year, but I also believe that the roster we end the 2019 season with will be much different than the line up that starts the 2019 season, with more youth making the squad. It would be more simple and probably more fun for us if they just started the season with those kids, but I'm a believer in making sure a kid can swim before chucking him into the deep end, and when they do make the team I really want them to be lining up beside quality NHLers, not grinding it out with Glendenning and Abdelkader.
Nut Upstrom
You dirty dog!
I totally agree with you. I would rather have passed on Green than sign him with a NTC, especially after rumors he used his clause at the deadline last year to nix a deal.
But doesn't his NTC only affect the 2019/20 season and it is gone for the last year of his contract? I may have misheard, but if that's the case I can live with it.
Upon reflection I should add I'm mainly focusing on the defense. I'm actual not too upset with the vanek signing, as he prob just replaces frk.
Honestly I'll prob just say f*** it and play nhl 19 and make all the moves there haha
The defensive transistion is coming along slowly, and even after the Green signing there's still room for Hronek or Hicketts to steal the #6 spot from Jensen, who's a replacement level guy at best. Next year Kronwall is gone which opens up another full-time spot. Then Daley (if he's not traded), Ericsson, and Green are up the year after that. Dekeyser is the only one signed long term and it's not like we have a blue-chip guy in the pipeline knocking down the door in the mean time. Hopefully we get lucky and draft a Bowen Byram or Cam York next year and they can be the stud we need going forward.
Shaman464
No u
I don't see why people keep penciling in Ras to the lineup over Zadina. Zadina is much more NHL ready, though they both should make the opening day roster.
Also if you want to talk about tank, this is how you tank:
First, sign all the vets. No rookies this season. Period. They can overachieve, washed up vets usually don't and are much more likely to underwhelm. Second, gift AA with top line time. And in the same vein don't ever do anything when he or Mantha float. In fact, reward floating. Every shift they float, they get another shift, and cookies. In fact, milkshakes after every game. AA and Mantha should be 400 pounds by December (1000 pounds of fun line right there, marketing guys better be listening). No more gym, just food. And Larkin? Sounds like a third line center to me! Nielsen should be top line center, followed by Helm, then Larkin then Z. Playing Z for 20 minutes a night is a way to get more points, we don't want that. Finally, Coreau should be the starter right out of the gates. And new rule, he can't use a goal stick, he can only use a switch he cuts that night right before the game and it must pass inspection. No raccoon bites=no go.
That was just for fun, but anyone who thinks playing kids=tank or somehow it hurts their development has it backwards. The only positive way forward for this team is to play any kid that is close to NHL ready. Detroit needs to know who is going to be an NHL player and who is going to bust as quickly as possible. The last decade has been marred in the 'over-ripe' mentality that has left Detroit counting their chickens because they assumed that letting a player languish in AHL/CHL/NCAA would mean they would develop more. Instead what they had was a lot of rotten fruit. Its time for that to end.
Also if you want to talk about tank, this is how you tank:
First, sign all the vets. No rookies this season. Period. They can overachieve, washed up vets usually don't and are much more likely to underwhelm. Second, gift AA with top line time. And in the same vein don't ever do anything when he or Mantha float. In fact, reward floating. Every shift they float, they get another shift, and cookies. In fact, milkshakes after every game. AA and Mantha should be 400 pounds by December (1000 pounds of fun line right there, marketing guys better be listening). No more gym, just food. And Larkin? Sounds like a third line center to me! Nielsen should be top line center, followed by Helm, then Larkin then Z. Playing Z for 20 minutes a night is a way to get more points, we don't want that. Finally, Coreau should be the starter right out of the gates. And new rule, he can't use a goal stick, he can only use a switch he cuts that night right before the game and it must pass inspection. No raccoon bites=no go.
That was just for fun, but anyone who thinks playing kids=tank or somehow it hurts their development has it backwards. The only positive way forward for this team is to play any kid that is close to NHL ready. Detroit needs to know who is going to be an NHL player and who is going to bust as quickly as possible. The last decade has been marred in the 'over-ripe' mentality that has left Detroit counting their chickens because they assumed that letting a player languish in AHL/CHL/NCAA would mean they would develop more. Instead what they had was a lot of rotten fruit. Its time for that to end.
MikeyDee
Registered User
The main reason is the fact that Rasmussen would be a man playing with children if he isn't in Detroit. If Zadina isn't in Detroit, he can at least be sent to Grand Rapids to play against men, even if they aren't all NHL caliber.
Another thing to consider, Ras has been through the rigors of development camp and training camp one time before this year and was given direction by the Wings player development staff like Horcoff or Cleary. A full year of training under the guidance of the Wings + being physically developed + the limited playing options make Rasmussen more of a priority to get into Detroit. Zadina can take a pretty massive development plan step forward this next year and never have to step foot in Detroit (even though we want him to).
Henkka
Registered User
Rasmussen was very near to be on the team after last pre-season, where he scored 4+0 in 6 games. He already showed very effective guys near the net. Then he really exploded at WHL playoffs.
Absolutely zero need to send him to juniors. I see him a 100% lock to NHL.
ShelbyZ
Registered User
- Apr 8, 2015
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I can't remember where I read/heard it, but it sounds like they want Zadina to at least start in GR and then go to the WJC in the winter.
Custance talked about it recently. Said a conservative route would be to start him in GR, let him play for Czech in World Juniors, and then finish in Detroit. That's my guess.
Henkka
Registered User
And when you build a simple timetable for this:
September: Pre-season games with Red Wings
October-December: AHL games with Griffins
January: WJC with Czechs
Mid-January-February: AHL games with Griffins
(Trade deadline, Nyquist gone, opens a Winger spot)
March: NHL games with Red Wings.
The only wrinkle that I would like to see is 9 games to start the year with Red Wings. I think we owe him the chance to prove he belongs or doesn't belong before we stick to that plan.
NickH8
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2015
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Shaman464
No u
A man playing with boys that aside from 14 games last season didn't put up world burning numbers. That's the scary part. I'd rather see him in the WHL starting the season on wing and see if he can replicate his 14 game stretch or if it was a fluke.
Outside the top 10 picks...
Only one #1 from the 2016 draft has played >100 games.
Only two #1's from the 2015 draft have played >100 games.
Only eight #1's from the 2014 draft have played >100 games.
Ten from 2013.
Between development time and overall ceiling it looks like there's a 2-3 year window before #1's outside the top 10 start getting NHL time. Inside the top 10 it's (obviously) sooner, but still typically at least a 1-2 year lag.
Henkka
Registered User
He scored 55 goals in 61 games if you count both regular season and playoffs together.
Was that also a fluke?
I think the problem isn't solely limited to our scouting. Our developing of d-men is just as problematic.
The problem with the lottery is that now the wings have to finish bottom 3 to increase the odds. That is the best way to game the system. We where fortunate this year that the draft was deep but in most years even at #6 the best talent gets picked clean before you pick at 6.
Why bottom 3 is important? Because in most years at worst you only move back 2 spots. So you at worst are picking #4 or 5. But it is still a likely 60% chance or so that you pick in the top 3. Which is one of the reasons I personally was adamant about not resigning Green. Subtract his 30-35 points, and 50-55 from Z's and the team is a lock for a bottom 3 finish. Now it is not as likely. Our finish could creep up into the 6-9th worst and then we get a good prospect but most likely not a great one.
HIFE
Registered User
This is close to explaining the contention I have with Holland's comments/strategy.
With it being said in every other other post regarding our frail prospects, I have to ask: READY FOR WHAT? To be worthy to grace the ice with the offensive fireball Nielsen, the never-die work ethic and battling ability of Justin Abdelkader? Maybe people don't want them embarrassed by the blazing speed of Helm and Glendening, or the wizard-like playmaking of Daley? Lol.
The Red Wings are a garbage, bottom 5 NHL team, desperate for talent. I've said it before but this organization has a problem evaluating pro ability. They literally believed that Cleary and Samuelsson were a better option than Nyquist and Tatar at that point of their careers. What I'm saying is that Svechnikov, after another 50 games, will be a more effective player than ex-superstar Vanek. Not to mention the contributions I would expect Zadina and Rasmussen to make if given his place. If any of the guys are the next Jurco than so be it. As Shaman said at least we're moving forward, finding what we've got and what we need.
Were Hishier and Patrick "ready"? I think they were. Holland would probably have sat them for Booth and Ott, but despite their slower start (especially Patrick) by the end of the season they proved to be dependable if not 1st/2nd line material. Zadina and Rasmussen fit into this same category and on a much more needy team.
I think the Wings are out to lunch if they think Vanek makes us more competitive or will draw a larger audience. Green- I'm in the crowd that feels the signing was necessary. As long as we didn't take on Filppula I won't be posting everyday complaining about Vanek.
Shaman464
No u
31+16 is 47 not 55. 47 in 61 is fine but over a third of those came 20 percent of his games. If he can start the season doing the same I’ll be sold, but a 14 game stretch has been the extent of his dominating play in his play in the WHL.
kliq
Registered User
- Dec 17, 2017
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If those stats are correct, at least his hottest streak came at the most important time. I'll take a player who dominates when it matters over a player who dominates early in the season any day.
I see your point though.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
I feel like there's something broken in the logic about thinking a guy like Green will prevent us from finishing bottom 3, while teams like Buffalo adds generational D Rasmus Dahlin, Montreal essentially adds Shea Weber, Arizona re-signed Ekman-Larsson and is pushing to be more competitive, and very few teams that finished ahead of us can be considered worse than last year.
We could be the worst team in the league next season and absolutely no one would be surprised.
His post-surgery numbers were terrific. 31 goals in 39 games. His "14 game stretch" included an 18 game point streak and being over 2.00 PPG the last 20 games of the season.
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jkutswings
hot piss hockey
- Jul 10, 2014
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Which is a fantastic hot streak. But that doesn't make it unreasonable to still be curious how his production will stack up over a longer stretch of games.
