Ken Holland's comments on UFA signings and 2018-2019 roster

[The Zetterberg Era]

Just to point something out because I really don't understand this point.

Rasmussen is going to be one of the biggest guys in the league. He is going to be a dominating physical player when he plays in the NHL. He is a big powerful man and will continue to be a big powerful man in the NHL. To discount that part of his playing style as bullying juniors is nice but he whipped NHL and AHL guys in the pre-season to score last year similarly. That with a banged up wrist and smaller than he will be entering this season.

One of the best parts of Rasmussen is that he plays a simple but effective big mans game. It is exactly how I want him to play in the NHL.

 

[Shaman464]

????

Pre surgery
22 GP 16 goals 15 assists 31 points +9 1.41pts/gp

Post-surgery (regular season + playoffs):

39GP 31 Goals 31 assists 62 points +16 1.59pts/gp

First that was his two seasons leading up to the playoffs. Second adding the playoffs to that second sample is disingenuous because it inflates his post surgery season ppg to fit the 'post surgery' narrative. His season he had 1.25 ppg and in his post surgery, pre-post season he had 25 games and a 1.15 ppg. Not world burning, so he was WORSE post surgery until ONE thing happened that no one here seems to want to talk about, his numbers JUMPED up when was converted from CENTER to WING, where he went from a career ppg of .98 to 2.35, but only in a small sample of 14 games. So if you're going to throw stats, don't lump stats together that make no sense to lump them in

Pre-surgery He had a 1.36 ppg (you double counted an assist in there he had 45 assists not 46)

Post surgery he had a 1.15 ppg over 25 games

Playoffs he had a 2.35 ppg over 14 games.

That tells a much different story.

 

[Shaman464]

Just to point something out because I really don't understand this point.

Rasmussen is going to be one of the biggest guys in the league. He is going to be a dominating physical player when he plays in the NHL. He is a big powerful man and will continue to be a big powerful man in the NHL. To discount that part of his playing style as bullying juniors is nice but he whipped NHL and AHL guys in the pre-season to score last year similarly. That with a banged up wrist and smaller than he will be entering this season.

One of the best parts of Rasmussen is that he plays a simple but effective big mans game. It is exactly how I want him to play in the NHL.

Except he doesn't use his size to dominate. He has only dominated 14 games in his career when was converted to wing during the playoffs. And preseason is when most players coast, so using it as some great feat isn't. Many players do because vets don't play, and a lot of kids and borderline guys play.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Except he doesn't use his size to dominate. He has only dominated 14 games in his career when was converted to wing during the playoffs. And preseason is when most players coast, so using it as some great feat isn't. Many players do because vets don't play, and a lot of kids and borderline guys play.

He plays that way whenever I watch him. I like how he imposes himself on a game.

That is just from watching some streams and things of that nature. I don't see every game, but I have really only seen him have one bad one. I am very impressed with him as a player, he brings a lot to the table.

 

[Pavels Dog]

First that was his two seasons leading up to the playoffs. Second adding the playoffs to that second sample is disingenuous because it inflates his post surgery season ppg to fit the 'post surgery' narrative. His season he had 1.25 ppg and in his post surgery, pre-post season he had 25 games and a 1.15 ppg. Not world burning, so he was WORSE post surgery until ONE thing happened that no one here seems to want to talk about, his numbers JUMPED up when was converted from CENTER to WING, where he went from a career ppg of .98 to 2.35, but only in a small sample of 14 games. So if you're going to throw stats, don't lump stats together that make no sense to lump them in

Pre-surgery He had a 1.36 ppg (you double counted an assist in there he had 45 assists not 46)

Post surgery he had a 1.15 ppg over 25 games

Playoffs he had a 2.35 ppg over 14 games.

That tells a much different story.

Yes, the story of extreme cherrypicking to try and create a narrative.

Remove the best ~10-20 game stretch of pretty much any player’s season and yeah, their numbers look worse. Very few produce at exactly the same level the entire year without highs and lows. You are grasping at straws.

 

[Shaman464]

Yes, the story of extreme cherrypicking to try and create a narrative.

Remove the best ~10-20 game stretch of pretty much any player’s season and yeah, their numbers look worse. Very few produce at exactly the same level the entire year without highs and lows. You are grasping at straws.

Except in the juniors elite players do, but you know, ignore literally all of the past to make your point. This isn't the NHL we're talking about, we're talking about a guy who is supposed to be physically dominating who has only had one great stretch of games to this point.

 

[odin1981]

Yes, the story of extreme cherrypicking to try and create a narrative.

Remove the best ~10-20 game stretch of pretty much any player’s season and yeah, their numbers look worse. Very few produce at exactly the same level the entire year without highs and lows. You are grasping at straws.

It would be better to remove the 10-20 best and worst games and that would be the standard for mean average games.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Except in the juniors elite players do, but you know, ignore literally all of the past to make your point. This isn't the NHL we're talking about, we're talking about a guy who is supposed to be physically dominating who has only had one great stretch of games to this point.

Yes, physically dominating while playing through pain.

Why Michael Rasmussen is dominating the WHL playoffs and...

By the end of January, he was back practicing with teammates without restriction but it wasn’t until a few weeks ago that he really felt completely pain-free. He feels stronger shooting the puck, more comfortable handling it. The results have reflected that newfound comfort level.

Being pain free and a big jump in production may be simple coincidence but I'm not gonna take your word for it.

Anyway this is why they have camps.

 

[Shaman464]

Yes, physically dominating while playing through pain.

Why Michael Rasmussen is dominating the WHL playoffs and...

Being pain free and a big jump in production may be simple coincidence but I'm not gonna take your word for it.

Anyway this is why they have camps.

I think it had much more to do with him being converted from center to wing, and that's the point I have been trying to make this whole time. That the second he's no longer pivot he's able to focus on offense and does well. Its also why I think that playing a few games in the WHL as a winger before being called up isn't the end of the world.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

I think it had much more to do with him being converted from center to wing, and that's the point I have been trying to make this whole time. That the second he's no longer pivot he's able to focus on offense and does well. Its also why I think that playing a few games in the WHL as a winger before being called up isn't the end of the world.

I never considered the center to wing factor in his stat bump, mostly just chalked it all up to injured/not-injured. That is definitely something to keep an eye on wherever he plays next season and pretty darn astute of you to notice.
I'm assuming we'll get to see him play center and wing for us the next few seasons. If he's more suited as a winger and his stats are that much better, then hopefully just make him a winger.

 

[rod]

Clearl

Correct. Playoffs shouldn't be an option, and we shouldn't sign players who will put us too close to the playoffs. If we don't draft a very good defenseman and center soon, all of this rebuilding will have meant very little. We'll be the Calgary Flames of the Atlantic division. Maybe that's good enough for you, but it's not good enough for me.

Jumping the gun and trying to make the playoffs is a grievous error. But Chris Ilitch $$$

Clearly you have never played competitive sports, every player wants to make the playoffs and so they should, every teams philosophy should be about making the playoffs. reality and wanting are two different entities all together. it does Detroit no good if we are terrible and dont sign players that will help us now and with the kids, otherwise no one will sign with us and we also risk losing our kids when they become UFA's because we dont ice a competitive group.

 

[Henkka]

Except he doesn't use his size to dominate. He has only dominated 14 games in his career when was converted to wing during the playoffs. And preseason is when most players coast, so using it as some great feat isn't. Many players do because vets don't play, and a lot of kids and borderline guys play.

Still you are having this same 14-game mantra. Rasmussen scored 55 goals in 61 games, when counting the regular season too. Scored more than any other 18-year old on that league.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Clearly you have never played competitive sports, every player wants to make the playoffs and so they should, every teams philosophy should be about making the playoffs. reality and wanting are two different entities all together. it does Detroit no good if we are terrible and dont sign players that will help us now and with the kids, otherwise no one will sign with us and we also risk losing our kids when they become UFA's because we dont ice a competitive group.

The funniest bit to me is that there are people who think GREEN and VANEK are the guys that are going to lead the push to the playoffs. It's like Holland put some racing stripes onto a Reliant Robin and suddenly half the board thinks they're aiming to win the Daytona 500.
These kinds of signings are equal to trying to lose in a little bit more style than you otherwise might.

 

[Bench]

The funniest bit to me is that there are people who think GREEN and VANEK are the guys that are going to lead the push to the playoffs. It's like Holland put some racing stripes onto a Reliant Robin and suddenly half the board thinks they're aiming to win the Daytona 500.
These kinds of signings are equal to trying to lose in a little bit more style than you otherwise might.

Holland is the one talking about playoffs, again. And that's not winning the race. Holland's goal is to qualify for the race.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

The funniest bit to me is that there are people who think GREEN and VANEK are the guys that are going to lead the push to the playoffs. It's like Holland put some racing stripes onto a Reliant Robin and suddenly half the board thinks they're aiming to win the Daytona 500.
These kinds of signings are equal to trying to lose in a little bit more style than you otherwise might.

Nobody thinks Green and Vanek are gonna push the Wings into the playoffs. Jesus Christ on skates couldn't get this team into the playoffs.

Green and Vanek are gonna help push Detroit out of the lottery into the 6-9 range.

 

[Syckle78]

The funniest bit to me is that there are people who think GREEN and VANEK are the guys that are going to lead the push to the playoffs. It's like Holland put some racing stripes onto a Reliant Robin and suddenly half the board thinks they're aiming to win the Daytona 500.
These kinds of signings are equal to trying to lose in a little bit more style than you otherwise might.

I don't know what's worse your ridiculous hyperbole or lying about what people are concerned about. Find me one single poster that thinks those guys are getting us to the playoffs.

 

[NickH8]

Holland is the one talking about playoffs, again. And that's not winning the race. Holland's goal is to qualify for the race.

I think people are misinterpreting what Holland means by competitive. I think he wants to keep the one goal games going and make the young guys believe they have a chance at winning each night, and this something to play for. Is signing Vanek instead of bringing in Zadina and Rasmussen the best way to go about that? No. But he's not trying to squeeze into the playoffs like some say he is.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I don't know what's worse your ridiculous hyperbole or lying about what people are concerned about. Find me one single poster that thinks those guys are getting us to the playoffs.

Getting us to playoffs? No. That the signings are an attempt to make the playoffs? Yes. That they will stop us from finishing bottom 3-5? Yes.
Plenty of posters have voiced these opinions/fears.

Holland is the one talking about playoffs, again.

He’s not really. But the word playoffs is there so, sure.

 

[Syckle78]

Getting us to playoffs? No. That the signings are an attempt to make the playoffs? Yes. That they will stop us from finishing bottom 3-5? Yes.
Plenty of posters have voiced these opinions/fears.

So in the post I quoted you were lying. Good to know.

 

[Pavels Dog]

So in the post I quoted you were lying. Good to know.

Or you can read what is in the post? Never did I say anyone thinks the team will make the playoffs.

 

[TheMule93]

lots of mental gymnastics here

 

[Syckle78]

The funniest bit to me is that there are people who think GREEN and VANEK are the guys that are going to lead the push to the playoffs. It's like Holland put some racing stripes onto a Reliant Robin and suddenly half the board thinks they're aiming to win the Daytona 500.
These kinds of signings are equal to trying to lose in a little bit more style than you otherwise might.

Just so you can read the first sentence for yourself again. Since you forgot your own words.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Just so you can read the first sentence for yourself again. Since you forgot your own words.

I don't see how I'm saying that the team would make the playoffs. But if I made some error there I blame the fact that I'm not a native english speaker. A team pushing for playoffs does not necessarily make it in. Perhaps I should have said lead an attempt at playoffs. You're very welcome to explain the linguistics to me so I can learn.

 

[Claypool]

Green and Vanek are gonna help push Detroit out of the lottery into the 6-9 range.

No, players like Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou, etc. continuing to improve and having even better years will do that. 55-60 games of Vanek will have no effect.

At the end of the day, teams like Ottawa, Buffalo, NY Islanders, Arizona and Montreal will likely be worse than Detroit next year, with or without Vanek.

 

[StargateSG1]

Holland's comment on the radio recently.
Why did you give Green and Vanek no trade contracts?
He said because they would not have signed otherwise.
I wonder how many other teams would have given them a no trade contract. None!
Does this maroon know he can just walk away?