Ken Holland's comments on UFA signings and 2018-2019 roster

[Hen Kolland]

no, the idea a trade will happen prior to the deadline is naive at best, ignorant at worst

That doesn't counter his point of it being wild speculation. It is 100% speculation that everyone currently slotted into a roster spot is going to fill out the starting lineup. Just because you are the 12th, 13th 14th forward to make the roster doesn't guarantee you will be 4th line or press box. Literally everything we discuss on this subject matter is speculation...I don't know why that came as a shock to you.

 

[Pavels Dog]

no, the idea a trade will happen prior to the deadline is naive at best, ignorant at worst

Don't even need trades.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

That doesn't counter his point of it being wild speculation. It is 100% speculation that everyone currently slotted into a roster spot is going to fill out the starting lineup. Just because you are the 12th, 13th 14th forward to make the roster doesn't guarantee you will be 4th line or press box. Literally everything we discuss on this subject matter is speculation...I don't know why that came as a shock to you.

while it may in fact be speculation, when its the lineup/direction that most closely resembles the franchises/mgmt teams philosophy based on historical trends, its fairly accurate

 

[Hen Kolland]

The Wings do not need any more depth. Kenny needs to realize that in today's NHL, your first round picks should be making the team almost immediately.

The 2017 draft had two players exceed 5 points and they were selected #1 and #2. Where is the immediate impact? The 2016 draft has had 4 players who have played a majority of 2 years in the NHL, selected #1, #2, #6, and #16.

I want to see Zadina and Rasmussen have notable success, but let's not characterize the NHL in a way that is untrue, or exaggerated at a minimum. Rasmussen is on track to arrive as many first round selections arrive. Zadina is likely slightly ahead of the curve.

 

[FunkyColdZadina]

Don't even need trades.

Yeah you can easily fit Rasmussen at least without a trade. Something like:

Mantha-Larkin-Bertuzzi
Rasmussen-Zetterberg-Nyquist
Vanek-Nielsen-AA
Gator-Glendenning-Helm

And that's not even considering the very real possibility that Zetterberg retires.

 

[Hen Kolland]

while it may in fact be speculation, when its the lineup/direction that most closely resembles the franchises/mgmt teams philosophy based on historical trends, its fairly accurate

Even though management and coaching staff have explicitly said that they are moving away from that trend and that jobs are up for grabs? I understand the only thing we have seen supports what you are saying, but we also never had the level of talent knocking on the door that we do right now. They said they are making changes, they have the talent to actually make the changes they are claiming. It's okay to just be patient and see what happens without making any outlandish assumptions and call for people's heads prematurely.

 

[Winger98]

Even though management and coaching staff have explicitly said that they are moving away from that trend and that jobs are up for grabs? I understand the only thing we have seen supports what you are saying, but we also never had the level of talent knocking on the door that we do right now. They said they are making changes, they have the talent to actually make the changes they are claiming. It's okay to just be patient and see what happens without making any outlandish assumptions and call for people's heads prematurely.

I don't think it's outlandish to look at what the club has actually done over the past ten years versus what they say and see what to expect. I think all of us are hoping that they follow through entirely on what they say, shoving Gator and/or Helm onto the fourth line to keep Rasmussen up in a top9 role seems more wildly speculative than expecting the Wings to follow through on what they've been doing for years.

Again, as I said elsewhere, the fact that they are floating Zadina to GR as a possibility already should be a clue as to how this club plans to build its team this fall. They can talk about guys coming in and winning jobs, but they're already finding slots lower in the organization and pushing expectations there.

 

[shanman]

My biggest problem with hollands statements were that we needed these new signings to provide "veteran" presences to the youth. We had plenty of veteran people,both on d and forwards, without vanek and green.


And the biggest peeve I've had with comments is bringing back green because he was "our best dman". So much wrong with that imo. First our defense sucked ass, so being the best of the worst isn't all that great. Second, our powerplay sucked, and he couldn't even bear out kronwall for pp1 duties. Lastly, green is a black hole defensively. Not what defenders should be learning from imo.

Can talk about trades all day, but 99 percent chance we have Daley, kronwall, Ericsson, green, and ddk starting game 1. Again.

 

[Syckle78]

^ and I'm ok with that. This team is going to suck ass regardless. At this point we're just collecting young assets and waiting for Holland and blashill to GTFO.

 

[shanman]

^ and I'm ok with that. This team is going to suck ass regardless. At this point we're just collecting young assets and waiting for Holland and blashill to GTFO.

except we are missing out on valuable development time on these players. I firmly believe we should have sulak and one of hronek/cholo starting the season with us playing decent minutes with the wings. No chance of that happening, even though our defense the last couple years has been an absolute joke. Pairing them up with veterans on the 2nd a nd 3rd pair is just too much of a common sense idea for this management group to do apparently. Let hicketts be the 7th guy instead of shitkowski. Makes just too much sense i guess.

 

[Syckle78]

We're missing out because we still have the same people in place. I dont trust this regime and blashill with developing our future players. Until the head of the snake is dispatched it's going to go the same way. As long we keep getting high picks and avoid long contracts it's about all we can hope for.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

The Wings do not need any more depth. Kenny needs to realize that in today's NHL, your first round picks should be making the team almost immediately.

Wait, what?
Your prospects should make the team when they are ready to handle the NHL, regardless of when they were picked.

Reading through these recent FA threads is becoming confusing to me...
The sky is falling because we signed a pair of depth veterans? If our picks are ready for the NHL this season I am sure they will be on NHL ice this season. Green and Vanek will not stand in the way of that, though they might delay it as management will need to create room on the roster.
Just seems to be a lot of complaining about something so inconsequential. Green and Vanek are not going to lead us to the playoffs and they are not going to completely kill our dreams of landing a lottery pick. Sure we might not win the lottery, we might pick 6th again instead of 3rd, but that could very well happen without Green and Vanek on board.
I'm not sure how outrageously inept you want our management to be to satisfy your desire to crash and burn to a dead last finish. We're bad enough to have a chance to win a lottery position; if no lottery position is won, we are bad enough to ensure we still get a very good prospect from next year's draft. Demanding that management stop bringing in quality depth because you wanna be last is just the kind of incompetence we do not want around our team.

So most recent cup winners have 1st overalls to lead them to glory... Big deal, that 1st overall now comes down to lottery luck and we'll finish in a place where it is not outside the realm of possibility that we get that lucky ball sooner or later. Yes, I know, a last overall increases our odds of grabbing a lottery pick, but with the likes of Ottawa and other perennial bottom feeders, how in the hell do you ensure a dead last or even a bottom 3 finish even if Holland does not sign a pair of older FAs to short-term deals? We'll likely end up in the bottom ten of the league - where we settle in that group of ten has more to do with injuries, chemistry, the development of our young players and coaching than it has to do with the Vanek and Green signings.
I too am very eager and excited to see Zadina, Rasmussen, Cholo, Hronek and our other talented kids on the team, but just chucking them out there because you lack the depth to ice an actual NHL team is not how I want to see them make the NHL.

 

[shanman]

We're missing out because we still have the same people in place. I dont trust this regime and blashill with developing our future players. Until the head of the snake is dispatched it's going to go the same way. As long we keep getting high picks and avoid long contracts it's about all we can hope for.

just frustrating as hell, especially with how easy the plan should have been for free agency after the draft. Just sign the backup goalie, AND THEN GET THE F OUT OF THERE. Bring up svech, zadina, and ras at forwards, and bring up sulak and one of hronek/cholo. Mix them all in with all our returning veterans throughout the lineup. ughh.

 

[shanman]

Wait, what?
Your prospects should make the team when they are ready to handle the NHL, regardless of when they were picked.

Reading through these recent FA threads is becoming confusing to me...
The sky is falling because we signed a pair of depth veterans? If our picks are ready for the NHL this season I am sure they will be on NHL ice this season. Green and Vanek will not stand in the way of that, though they might delay it as management will need to create room on the roster.
Just seems to be a lot of complaining about something so inconsequential. Green and Vanek are not going to lead us to the playoffs and they are not going to completely kill our dreams of landing a lottery pick. Sure we might not win the lottery, we might pick 6th again instead of 3rd, but that could very well happen without Green and Vanek on board.
I'm not sure how outrageously inept you want our management to be to satisfy your desire to crash and burn to a dead last finish. We're bad enough to have a chance to win a lottery position; if no lottery position is won, we are bad enough to ensure we still get a very good prospect from next year's draft. Demanding that management stop bringing in quality depth because you wanna be last is just the kind of incompetence we do not want around our team.

So most recent cup winners have 1st overalls to lead them to glory... Big deal, that 1st overall now comes down to lottery luck and we'll finish in a place where it is not outside the realm of possibility that we get that lucky ball sooner or later. Yes, I know, a last overall increases our odds of grabbing a lottery pick, but with the likes of Ottawa and other perennial bottom feeders, how in the hell do you ensure a dead last or even a bottom 3 finish even if Holland does not sign a pair of older FAs to short-term deals? We'll likely end up in the bottom ten of the league - where we settle in that group of ten has more to do with injuries, chemistry, the development of our young players and coaching than it has to do with the Vanek and Green signings.
I too am very eager and excited to see Zadina, Rasmussen, Cholo, Hronek and our other talented kids on the team, but just chucking them out there because you lack the depth to ice an actual NHL team is not how I want to see them make the NHL.

umm what? Have you been watching our team the last couple of years?

 

[Hen Kolland]

We're missing out because we still have the same people in place. I dont trust this regime and blashill with developing our future players. Until the head of the snake is dispatched it's going to go the same way. As long we keep getting high picks and avoid long contracts it's about all we can hope for.

You're so right... Blashill has completely destroyed the development of Larkin, Mantha, and Bertuzzi...none of them progressed last year...

 

[Nut Upstrom]

"umm what? Have you been watching our team the last couple of years?"

No, I just tune in after every game to see who won "Light the Lamp" that night.

 

[shanman]

"umm what? Have you been watching our team the last couple of years?"

No, I just tune in after every game to see who won "Light the Lamp" that night.

The wings have been trash for multiple years now and with how happy you are we still have so many of the same players responsible for that Im beginning to doubt you even do that much.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

The wings have been trash for multiple years now and with how happy you are we still have so many of the same players responsible for that Im beginning to doubt you even do that much.

You don't have to agree with what I've said, but try to give me something to discuss other than insults.
I know the team has not been good, I addressed that in my earlier post, suggesting we were bottom ten in the league. That's not something that will be fixed over night and it's not something that will be fixed by axing every player over 30 and tossing every kid under 20 onto the ice. We're seeing a gradual shift toward youth, I see Vanek and Green to be short-term place holders for when management are certain the kids can handle the NHL. It's hard to be patient, but I think that I get what management is finally doing to rebuild. Apologies if you disagree with my opinion.

I do watch the games by the way
#ImwithOzzie

 

[Syckle78]

The wings have been trash for multiple years now and with how happy you are we still have so many of the same players responsible for that Im beginning to doubt you even do that much.

I'm not sure what you expect to happen. We can't just dump everyone at once. It's gradual process. Green isn't an issue hronek or whoever doesn't have to out play green they have to out play big rig,the corpse of kronner,ddk and whatever else trash is in front of him. If they can't do that they don't belong. But once again I don't trust blashill and Holland to go on a merit based system for ice time and opportunity so it doesn't matter until they are gone.

 

[saska sault]

Without reading too much into the posts... I am happy with the Green resigning. Yes he shouldnt be a number 1, but he is our best option. Stop gap 2 year, low risk, and can get the young guns the puck and help them develop by putting them in good situations. Our other option is letting Larkin try to get breakouts from Dekeyser and Jensen. Not ideal...

Vanek, meh.. i think a player or two are moved for futures and Vanek helps with the development of the youth. Need guys who can help shoulder the load and let the kids develop.

Bernier.. 3 years is 1 more than I would like but... hes not that old and can be our #1 on a rebuilding team is we need to move Howard or if hes injured.

As long as Holland allows the young kids to have their spot if they are ready... surrounding them with vets is good. And after a great draft.. Holland has got an A- for the off season so far. No long term vet deals for 5 plus years is a big bonus.. maybe he is slowly learning.

 

[shanman]

Last two posts completely miss the point. How is keeping our 4 vets on defense and integrating 2 youth defenders either "scrapping everyone over 30" or "happening all at once"? I'm literally suggesting the actual gradual process people want.

 

[TatarTangle]

You're so right... Blashill has completely destroyed the development of Larkin, Mantha, and Bertuzzi...none of them progressed last year...

The best part is that same crowd, if Blashill coached them into a playoff spot last year (or this year), would/will be clamoring about how being first round fodder is meaningless and they should have just tanked. At the end of the day Blashill is fighting a losing battle with a lot of Wings fan, gotta love 'em though.

A lot of people getting their panties in a bunch. The "kids" that need to see NHL time this year will. Vanek amd Green aren't stopping that. A lot of them aren't really all that great so I wouldn't feel comfortable throwing them out there just because they're one of the "kids" either.

You see what someone can do in a structured system, you don't throw everyone who can't swim in the deep end and say good luck.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Last two posts completely miss the point. How is keeping our 4 vets on defense and integrating 2 youth defenders either "scrapping everyone over 30" or "happening all at once"? I'm literally suggesting the actual gradual process people want.

Which is the actual gradual process that will happen.

 

[shanman]

The best part is that same crowd, if Blashill coached them into a playoff spot last year (or this year), would/will be clamoring about how being first round fodder is meaningless and they should have just tanked. At the end of the day Blashill is fighting a losing battle with a lot of Wings fan, gotta love 'em though.

A lot of people getting their panties in a bunch. The "kids" that need to see NHL time will this year will. Vanek amd Green aren't stopping that. A lot of them aren't really all that great so I wouldn't feel comfortable throwing them out there just because they're one of the "kids" either.

You see what someone can do in a structured system, you don't throw everyone who can't swim in the deep end and say good luck.

Man I just don't get this take. Just going to stop arguing i guess and just deal with the fact some people are ok with holland re-signing our trash.

 

[shanman]

Which is the actual gradual process that will happen.

Having our same lineup going into the year is not really a process haha. Guess you mean gradual as in the grand canyon was gradually eroded by wind and water while it was forming haha