Ken Dryden - Hockey Has a Gigantic-Goalie Problem

Sky04

Registered User
Jan 8, 2009
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I dont think Dryden was talking about iffence ir defence. Scoring going up or down. Just about how the goalies cover the net, how they play, how they ate to watch.
Coming from someone who has watched many eras. The most entertaining goalies were not today's with the massive equipment .
Mattress on skates. Hard to beat. Yes. Nothing special to watch is all that's being said.
Gimme Grant Fuhr or Ron Hextall over Carey Price and Holtby any day.

And both of those goalies would be a joke in today's league if they don't adopt the same playstyles and techniques, it's the evolution of the game.

It's the same line of thinking as "why don't guys come in and take a clapper from the top of the circle anymore, it worked all the time in the 80's!"
 

PWiz30

I love to hockey!
Jan 3, 2013
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Same with the reverse-H technique of protecting goalposts. It's essentially constructing a wall as if your limbs are Tetris pieces and they fit snug against the post like so. If done correctly and in a timely manner there is zero chance anyone can score from the corner or behind the net.

RVH is a game-changer for one-timers in tight on passes from behind the net but it's led to an increase in short side goals from low angles. It's true that this is largely due to misuse but the standup post seal technique was pretty airtight too.
Nabby-35_mini-1-1280x640.jpg


It would make the sport more exciting if goalie athleticism got favored more and positioning/coverage got favored less.

Goalies are more athletic than ever and it's a myth that stand up goalies from the 80s didn't also rely on blocking. I can elaborate on this but much of it would echo Paul Campbell's 2017 article for InGoal Magazine linked below (it's a lot less wordy than the Dryden piece).
New Aesthetics of Goaltending, Vol 3: Myth of the Standup Goalie | InGoal Magazine

There’s no reason for the leg pads to go past the knee up into the air, only there to block the five hole in the butterfly.

Spoken like someone who's never been hit in the knee with a puck. Pads used to have kneeboards for this, but the NHL outlawed those sometime around 2007 because they hate goalies.

The key is not to look for answers in the wrong places.
This is one thing I agree with Dryden on. If the NHL wants to make the game more exciting to casual fans, they should do so by increasing the number of quality scoring chances, not by handcuffing goalies. If you insist on the latter option, the improvements in goalie skates have benefited goalies far more than things like thigh rises that extend the top of the pads but I don't hear people talking about getting rid of cowling-less skates.
 
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MattySnipes

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Jan 26, 2018
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The equipment has been trimmed. It's fine. The size of the net is also fine.

Teams are scoring 6-7 goals.

If you trim the equipment even more you run the risk of injuring goalie. Players don't shoot the puck like your favourite player did back in the 80s, and 90s.

I'd leave everything as is. Anymore changes and it's best to just leave an empty net and play posts. For real.
 

PaulD

Time for a new GM !
Feb 4, 2016
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And both of those goalies would be a joke in today's league if they don't adopt the same playstyles and techniques, it's the evolution of the game.

It's the same line of thinking as "why don't guys come in and take a clapper from the top of the circle anymore, it worked all the time in the 80's!"
It was an observation pal No kidding its evolution. Duh ! Kinda went without stipulation. But not fo everyone apparently. Nobody is whining about "going back to the way it was". If we all went back to the way it was we wouldn't be chatting about hockey past and present on line. We would be doing it in a pub. Evolution buddy.
Cheers
 

PaulD

Time for a new GM !
Feb 4, 2016
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RVH is a game-changer for one-timers in tight on passes from behind the net but it's led to an increase in side goals from low angles. It's true that this is largely due to misuse but the standup post seal technique was pretty airtight too.
Great post.
Nabby-35_mini-1-1280x640.jpg




Goalies are more athletic than ever and it's a myth that stand up goalies from the 80s didn't also rely on blocking. I can elaborate on this but much of it would echo Paul Campbell's 2017 article for InGoal Magazine linked below (it's a lot less wordy than the Dryden piece).
New Aesthetics of Goaltending, Vol 3: Myth of the Standup Goalie | InGoal Magazine



Spoken like someone who's never been hit in the knee with a puck. Pads used to have kneeboards for this, but the NHL outlawed those sometime around 2007 because they hate goalies.


This is one thing I agree with Dryden on. If the NHL wants to make the game more exciting to casual fans, they should do so by increasing the number of quality scoring chances, not by handcuffing goalies. If you insist on the latter option, the improvements in goalie skates have benefited goalies far more than things like thigh rises that extend the top of the pads but I don't hear people talking about getting rid of cowling-less skates.
 

SenSaddest

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Jan 31, 2015
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barley have any height above the knee?
Pads today are easily about 6-8 inches above the knee. Just look at Anderson and Price right now.
that is due to how the goalies are adjusting the pad to sit on the foot, look into how the measure pad size, it is very strict. many pro female goalies wear bigger pads than nhl players and are signifcantly shorter
 

JianYang

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Sep 29, 2017
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For me, the goaltending position has been refined to science, and it has led to the position becoming more generic, with a much smaller gap between the best and not so best goalies.

It was more fun when the position was unrefined, and raw, but that thought applies to the entire game, not just the goaltending position.
 

ScaryCarey31

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Aug 16, 2018
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Again please explain to me how wider equipment protects a goalie more then thicker equipment? Yes we would all like to hear your explaination.
Equipment today in the nhl isn't even that wide, pads are limited to 11 inches, smaller than any Era except for when goalies used cricket pads. Yes, reduce the amount above the knee thats it. I'm a goaltender that plays nowhere near the nhl level. I wear pro level equipment, I get hurt by shots all the time, alot of what equipment is today is about impact dispersion. And for safety the sides of the goalies body and limbs are padded also, which adds to abit of width, wouldnt want your star goalie going down with broken ribs, shoulders, arms etc. So how about you go create some new space age materials so we can have stick figures in net.
 
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FeatherHead

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Oct 5, 2017
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He’s not wrong. Nevermind the average size and weight of goaltenders is far above and beyond what they were back then, but they continue to don equipment that far exceeds what is needed for safety, and is is designed as is for no other reason than to occupy additional space.

Saying these huge pads are needed for safety/protection is absolute horseshit. NHL defensemen stand in the way of shots all the live long day in equipment with a fraction of the protection goaltenders pike on, and they’re not dropping like flies or leaving in stretchers.
 
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lorwood

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You guys can argue back and forth but it’s hard to argue that this wasn’t a lot more exciting and fun to watch

 

sting101

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Feb 8, 2012
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I think i can speak from a unique perspective as my gear sizes have changed following nhl spec each time. The only real piece of gear now that people could argue is oversized is the catcher and blocker. the new spec pants are like skinny jeans and honestly I've been hurt in them way more than ever before... As for pads height is fine (you can barley have any height above the knee), you could make an argument about making them and inch thinner but that would make minimal difference.
Yes knee is barely covered?
CvPdi5hVIAEFypm.jpg:large
 

ScaryCarey31

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Aug 16, 2018
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He’s not wrong. Nevermind the average size and weight of goaltenders is far above and beyond what they were back then, but they continue to don equipment that far exceeds what is needed for safety, and is is designed as is for no other reason than to occupy additional space.

Saying these huge pads are needed for safety/protection is absolute horseshit. NHL defensemen stand in the way of shots all the live long day in equipment with a fraction of the protection goaltenders pike on, and they’re not dropping like flies or leaving in stretchers.
NHL players get hurt and break legs, feet, ankles, hands blocking these shots dont they? So goalies should be subjected to those injuries and pain for the duration of a game with 30+ shots? Lmao ok
 

FeatherHead

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Oct 5, 2017
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NHL players get hurt and break legs, feet, ankles, hands blocking these shots dont they? So goalies should be subjected to those injuries and pain for the duration of a game with 30+ shots? Lmao ok
No one said that. The % of players that miss time from blocked shots is minimal. When’s the last time any goaltender missed time from taking a shot? You can reduce surface area without reducing safety. If you deny that you’re being ridiculous. You don’t need to protect open space with equipment. Goaltenders have in the past worn far less equipment without dropping like flies. Goaltenders miss next to ZERO time from taking pucks. You can reduce pad size without increasing risk.
 

ScaryCarey31

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Aug 16, 2018
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No one said that. The % of players that miss time from blocked shots is minimal. When’s the last time any goaltender missed time from taking a shot? You can reduce surface area without reducing safety. If you deny that you’re being ridiculous. You don’t need to protect open space with equipment. Goaltenders have in the past worn far less equipment without dropping like flies. Goaltenders miss next to ZERO time from taking pucks. You can reduce pad size without increasing risk.
Yes the height of the pads needs to be reduced along with the blocker and trapper, any further reductions to other pieces of equipment would bring on some safety issues. The width of the pads is more narrow than it's been since the 80's if it's any consolation.
 
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sandysan

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Dec 7, 2011
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Completely agree either decrease goalies equipment or increase net size. Sometimes when they show POV of shooters there is almost no way to score.
We gonna abandon the whipmaster 3000's and go back to woodies?

Here's a hint goalie equipment HAS gotten smaller.
 

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