Ken Dryden - Hockey Has a Gigantic-Goalie Problem

[bouncesonly]

HOF Montreal Canadien Goaltender Ken Dryden believes goal tenders are too small. Jk

Hockey Has a Gigantic-Goalie Problem

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[Hank Plank]

Long article, summary?

 

[Burkeocet]

Ken Dryden was 6’4, 205 in an era where goalies were like 5’7, 155.

Funnily enough, he would be the perfect sized goalie in today’s NHL

 

[Burkeocet]

Long article, summary?

Dryden wants smaller goalie equipment. He basically says the game is fast and beautiful but goalies are just huge with purpose built equipment to cover as much net as possible, who’s entire strategy revolves around net coverage instead of reflexes like it did before.

 

[Slurpeelover27]

Completely agree either decrease goalies equipment or increase net size. Sometimes when they show POV of shooters there is almost no way to score.

 

[Theodore450]

Dude drops a sound argument

 

[ScaryCarey31]

This is Lundqvist before they reduced the pads twice and reduced the pants and chest protectors, viewing hockey from a side angle on tv broadcasts doesn't do goalies any justice.

 

[HugginThePost]

This is Lundqvist before they reduced the pads twice and reduced the pants and chest protectors, viewing hockey from a side angle on tv broadcasts doesn't do goalies any justice.

Save you’re breath......

......the “equipment is so big” die hards will be along soon.

Equipment keeps getting smaller, goalies keep getting better, but it’s always the same tired argument.

 

[Master P]

Not this shit again

 

[dubey]

The NHL goalie problem is Auston Matthews

 

[FanTheFlames]

I think we should just get rid of goalies and hitting and we can play posts 2 pts for a crossbar and 1pt for a post if you hit 2 its a 3 pt play and if you Hit 3 you just win the game

 

[MadLuke]

Equipment keeps getting smaller, goalies keep getting better, but it’s always the same tired argument.

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Rules changed in 2016-2017 with some other since

1	2020-21	NHL	231	2.98	0.69	3.31	20.71	79.29	29.8	27.0	.906	2.79
2	2019-20	NHL	1082	3.02	0.60	2.97	20.03	79.97	31.3	28.4	.910	2.82
3	2018-19	NHL	1271	3.01	0.58	2.92	19.78	80.22	31.3	28.5	.910	2.81
4	2017-18	NHL	1271	2.97	0.61	3.04	20.18	79.82	31.8	29.0	.912	2.78
5	2016-17	NHL	1230	2.77	0.57	2.99	19.10	80.90	30.1	27.5	.913	2.59
6	2015-16	NHL	1230	2.71	0.58	3.11	18.66	81.34	29.6	27.1	.915	2.51
7	2014-15	NHL	1230	2.73	0.57	3.06	18.66	81.34	29.8	27.3	.915	2.52

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Did they got better since ?

When we look back at Garth Snow flyers days, I think it will make a strong consensus that it is possible for goaltender equipment to get too big and not be about protection.

 

[razor8]

This is Lundqvist before they reduced the pads twice and reduced the pants and chest protectors, viewing hockey from a side angle on tv broadcasts doesn't do goalies any justice.

Lundqvist is listed at 6'1 which is not very big for a goalie today.

 

[Sykur]

Dryden forgot to mention that there was a disincentive for goalies to drop on their knees back in the 60s and 70s. The butterfly style was known (Tony Esposito invented it), but not employed often because the fabric of the pads they used was full of camel hair or who knows what else and it soaked up the water on the ice. By the third period the waterlogged pads would get super heavy, inhibiting mobility.

With the introduction of space-age water resistant fabrics in the 80s, this no longer became a problem and goalies like Patrick Roy could use the butterfly style exclusively. Helmet/facial protection also advanced to the point where goalies no longer feared getting hit in the face, so they crouched more, with their faces closer to the ice and where the puck was coming from.

And that's the big difference right there: The stance. Goalies in the 60s and 70s stood almost completely upright all the time, keeping their heads above the crossbar. They only protected the net with the bottom half of their body. Today's goalies are perpetually crouching, with their heads below the crossbar. A crouching goalie is using all of his body to cover more of the net. No part of him is wasted.

These things have been known for decades and Dryden is not pointing out anything new. For instance: The goalie wearing an oversized chest protector so when he plops down in front he pushes it up past his ears and his head tucks in like a turtle, it takes away the shooting space above his shoulders.... JS Giguere invented that style in the 03 playoffs. They called him the Giggy Puff Marshmallow Man because his pads were so big, and the plop on your knees, pushing your chest protector up is nicknamed the "Easter Island Head Statue" because that's what you look like: A big square block that just absorbs the puck.

Same with the reverse-H technique of protecting goalposts. It's essentially constructing a wall as if your limbs are Tetris pieces and they fit snug against the post like so. If done correctly and in a timely manner there is zero chance anyone can score from the corner or behind the net.

So these issues aren't new. I don't like his suggestions of increasing the width of the nets though. Lacrosse did that and it led to football scores (which I guess is good for excitement but I never liked that much scoring).

But above all what's happened is that goalies have simply gotten better while the net has remained the same. They are better equipped, better trained, better prepared, in better shape, and they're bigger, faster, and more educated in systems and techniques. They have essentially optimized the objective of total net coverage in any given situation as much as they can, and there's nothing the league can do about it.

Except make the nets bigger.

 

[PAZ]

Even adding an extra inch or two would go a long way. An extra foot is a bit much, but adding an extra 2 inches to the width and an inch to the height wouldn't be the worst idea.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Lundqvist is listed at 6'1 which is not very big for a goalie today.

Doesn’t change the fact he wore equipment that was huge for his size. Giguere pre lockout was the worst IMO.

 

[Esko6]

Even adding an extra inch or two would go a long way. An extra foot is a bit much, but adding an extra 2 inches to the width and an inch to the height wouldn't be the worst idea.

Decide a goals/game rate that is wanted. Add a rule where after every 50 games the average goals per game is checked. If there are too many goals being scored, decrease goal width by 1 cm or vice versa. Do not increase height, I think it would incentivize taller goalies too much.

I don't actually think the nets need changing, scoring seems to be fine.

 

[ScaryCarey31]

Lundqvist is listed at 6'1 which is not very big for a goalie today.

True! Just wanted to point out how much net there actually is to shoot at. Lundqvist is a good example because of how deep he plays, really puts things into perspective.

 

[Snipes45]

That looks like lots of room. Look at the Oilers insatgram. Best camera I have seen. It shows JP going in on Helly basically at ice level. I as shocked at how much there was to shoot at with Helly looking so big too

 

[torniojaws]

Completely agree either decrease goalies equipment or increase net size. Sometimes when they show POV of shooters there is almost no way to score.

Is that why goaltending has sucked this season? Every night, there are multiple goalies that have save-% between .750 and .850 or so. Last night:

Matt Murray .769
Marcus Högberg .800
Linus Ullmark .857

Those would be terrible even in 1980s NHL.

 

[ESH]

Is that why goaltending has sucked this season? Every night, there are multiple goalies that have save-% between .750 and .850 or so. Last night:

Matt Murray .769
Marcus Högberg .800
Linus Ullmark .857

Those would be terrible even in 1980s NHL.

bad goalies have a bad game?

 

[MasterDecoy]

so we gonna take away composite sticks then?

 

[razor8]

Doesn’t change the fact he wore equipment that was huge for his size. Giguere pre lockout was the worst IMO.

Just saying that a picture of 6'1 Lundqvist doesn't really relate that well to goalies that are 4-5 inches taller. A goalie wears equipment that is allowed. It's not the goalies fault it's allowed.

 

[torniojaws]

bad goalies have a bad game?

Yes, if those were the "only" games. But those kind of statistics have been going on this entire season, even for "good" goalies. Carey Price has had .821, Bobrovski had .854, Juuse Saros had .792 (and below .853 for four games in a row), Vasilevski had .857, MAF had .826, and so on. And it's not just one game each - almost half their games have been total garbage statistics-wise, being mid-850 or even lower that is not good enough even for AHL.

If they worked in corporate world, they would have been fired a long time ago.

 

[razor8]

Yes, if those were the "only" games. But those kind of statistics have been going on this entire season, even for "good" goalies. Carey Price has had .821, Bobrovski had .854, Juuse Saros had .792 (and below .853 for four games in a row), Vasilevski had .857, MAF had .826, and so on. And it's not just one game each - almost half their games have been total garbage statistics-wise, being mid-850 or even lower that is not good enough even for AHL.

If they worked in corporate world, they would have been fired a long time ago.

Has there been a season where goalies never had bad games? Even top tier goalies have bad games.