Ken Dryden - Hockey Has a Gigantic-Goalie Problem

HF007

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Sep 9, 2008
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Can’t change net sizes, just keep reducing equipment till we reach a happy medium of safety and required skill
 

ItsFineImFine

Registered User
Aug 11, 2019
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I don't know what people want. The scoring is fine.
The game is about offense and defense. Just watching easy offense is not entertaining. Having to overcome resistance and still produce offense, is entertaining.

I dunno maybe to you but the NHL's lack of real growth imo (unless you consider a glacial pace growth) in terms of TV shows to me that it isn't fine.

Can’t change net sizes, just keep reducing equipment till we reach a happy medium of safety and required skill

Why not? What's so sanctimonious about having the same net size as the 1930s? Humans have gotten bigger and faster with better equipment have they not?
 

SwedishFire

Registered User
Mar 3, 2011
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He is right. But with technonigy clming knto sport, hockey yesterday and now are completley diffrent sports. Give a goalie the old pads, Ovechkin eould destroy them with his shot. 100 goals a season.
 
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Stephen

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Feb 28, 2002
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Ken Dryden's nostalgia based diagnosis has it all wrong.

The goalie position has experienced a revolution in equipment and technique in the past 25 years that makes the position barely recognizable from the position he played. I started watching as a kid in the middle of this revolution when the likes of Potvin, Roy, Joseph, Hasek, Belfour and Brodeur were finding their own styles, so it was different then from whatever Dryden imagines is the golden age. But I can appreciate there's a different beauty to the way someone next generation like Carter Hart or Andrei Vasilevsiky plays the position than shrinking the goalie and have them return to when the position was exciting, acrobatic and terrible.

Just watching guys like McDavid, Mackinnon, Matthews and friends dominate NHL scoring, it's up to the shooters now to reinvent their positions, to make the game more beautiful and faster and high skilled. There's no putting the genie back in the bottle.
 

Fantomas

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Aug 7, 2012
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I don't know what people want. The scoring is fine.

The game is about offense and defense. Just watching easy offense is not entertaining. Having to overcome resistance and still produce offense, is entertaining.

The game lacks interesting personalities. And it lacks great goalies.

But nothing Dryden prescribes addresses these issues.

And I agree that the scoring is fine.
 
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Stephen

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Feb 28, 2002
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The game lacks interesting personalities. And it lacks great goalies.

But nothing Dryden prescribes addresses these issues.

And I agree that the scoring is fine.

The other thing that strikes me as ironic is if Ken Dryden’s trying to turn back the clock on certain aspects of the game, I think he’ll find that there isn’t going to be much of a consensus on when that golden age should be. For example, he played in the 1970s and that era was garbage for disparity, goonery, lack of professionalism, training etc. and there’s no part of me as a modern fan that wants a return to anything resembling that era.
 
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PaulD

Time for a new GM !
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Still you keep on watching. If it really bothers you that much, then stop watching. There's a dozen other sports to watch. Like golf or synchronized swimming.
Lol
Slightly extreme.
Because goalies have changed and become less exciting or individual ......stop watching hockey ??
Yea right !
 

PaulD

Time for a new GM !
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The other thing that strikes me as ironic is if Ken Dryden’s trying to turn back the clock on certain aspects of the game, I think he’ll find that there isn’t going to be much of a consensus on when that golden age should be. For example, he played in the 1970s and that era was garbage for disparity, goonery, lack of professionalism, training etc. and there’s no part of me as a modern fan that wants a return to anything resembling that era.
Ya had to be there buddy. It had all the goonery of what you say. (That actually started in 74) But it also had the stars like Orr, Lafleur, Parent, Park, Esposito, Macleash, Perreault, Dionne, not to mention Gretzky and everyone that came in 79.
I'll take both anyday.
Great players
Tough guys
Fighters.
A token goon on each club.
And great goalies that are not identical throughout the league.
But hey , nothing like the out right lightening speed of today's players and the top end speed the game is played at.
But I have to admit , I miss the likes of Bob Probert , Marty McSorely, Tori Robertson , Tony Twist, Chris Nilan, Joey Kocur, Wendle Clark, Terry Orielly, Dave Semenko, Tim Hunter, John Kordic, Al Secord, Clarke Gillies, Basil McRea, Willy Plett , Stan Johnathon, .....I could go on.
The old guys will know what I'm talking about.
 
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NeelyWasAWarrior

Don't Poke The Bear
Dec 23, 2006
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gee i don't know, i'm taking the input from a guy who played at a high level over anybody on here who played low level hockey all day, every day and twice on sunday.

i've actually started watching more nba. My goodness Zion and Luka are so fun to watch.
 

SnowblindNYR

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Save you’re breath......

......the “equipment is so big” die hards will be along soon.

Equipment keeps getting smaller, goalies keep getting better, but it’s always the same tired argument.

The scoring is as high the last few years as its been since before the DPE I feel like, maybe with the exception of the first two seasons post-lockout but that was fueled by the PP. There's no dominant goalie in the league anymore maybe with the exception of Vasilevsky. Why is this still an argument? This isn't 2015.
 

ole ole

Registered User
Oct 7, 2017
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The pads and glove are actually pretty comparable in size today to what Dryden wore (They might have been a bit wider back then actually: goalies are restricted to 11 inches in width now). The blocker is actually smaller now: Dryden basically wore a baking tray on his right arm.

cut.jpg
Check out the width of the pads, height of the pads even worst check out from the chest up. Todays EQ is huge compared to beak then.
 

ole ole

Registered User
Oct 7, 2017
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Goalie equipment is the smallest its been since the mid 90's, the added size with the current equipment is to account for the fact that every player in the NHL can absolutely rip the puck with composite sticks, are you suggesting that we bring the fear factor back into goaltending? With the reduced pant and chest protector size implemented in the past couple of seasons the goalies were getting bruised left right and center. Manufacturers were able to dial it in abit more to offer a protective product but a further reduction would certainly result in serious injuries. Although the height of the pads could be taken down abit.
Again please explain to me how wider equipment protects a goalie more then thicker equipment? Yes we would all like to hear your explaination.
 

SenSaddest

Registered User
Jan 31, 2015
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I think i can speak from a unique perspective as my gear sizes have changed following nhl spec each time. The only real piece of gear now that people could argue is oversized is the catcher and blocker. the new spec pants are like skinny jeans and honestly I've been hurt in them way more than ever before... As for pads height is fine (you can barley have any height above the knee), you could make an argument about making them and inch thinner but that would make minimal difference.
 
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ole ole

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Oct 7, 2017
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I think i can speak from a unique perspective as my gear sizes have changed following nhl spec each time. The only real piece of gear now that people could argue is oversized is the catcher and blocker. the new spec pants are like skinny jeans and honestly I've been hurt in them way more than ever before... As for pads height is fine (you can), you could make an argument about making them and inch thinner but that would make minimal difference.
barley have any height above the knee?
Pads today are easily about 6-8 inches above the knee. Just look at Anderson and Price right now.
 

mize370

Registered User
Nov 2, 2009
2,056
2,261
Waterloo, Ontario
just have the pads strapped to the knees so they bend like in the old days. Not flair up and closed like they do no matter how they go down on them. And the pads are a lot higher into the pants then they need to be.
 

BraveCanadian

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
14,522
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Saw this article a few days ago and completely agree. The cheaters on the pads closing up the five hole for goalies and the extremely high shoulders etc. should be gone. Make them play.
 

PaulD

Time for a new GM !
Feb 4, 2016
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I don't know what people want. The scoring is fine.
The game is about offense and defense. Just watching easy offense is not entertaining. Having to overcome resistance and still produce offense, is entertaining.
I dont think Dryden was talking about iffence ir defence. Scoring going up or down. Just about how the goalies cover the net, how they play, how they ate to watch.
Coming from someone who has watched many eras. The most entertaining goalies were not today's with the massive equipment .
Mattress on skates. Hard to beat. Yes. Nothing special to watch is all that's being said.
Gimme Grant Fuhr or Ron Hextall over Carey Price and Holtby any day.
 

SwedishFire

Registered User
Mar 3, 2011
5,332
1,863
Ken Dryden's nostalgia based diagnosis has it all wrong.

The goalie position has experienced a revolution in equipment and technique in the past 25 years that makes the position barely recognizable from the position he played. I started watching as a kid in the middle of this revolution when the likes of Potvin, Roy, Joseph, Hasek, Belfour and Brodeur were finding their own styles, so it was different then from whatever Dryden imagines is the golden age. But I can appreciate there's a different beauty to the way someone next generation like Carter Hart or Andrei Vasilevsiky plays the position than shrinking the goalie and have them return to when the position was exciting, acrobatic and terrible.

Just watching guys like McDavid, Mackinnon, Matthews and friends dominate NHL scoring, it's up to the shooters now to reinvent their positions, to make the game more beautiful and faster and high skilled. There's no putting the genie back in the bottle.

I like your solid argument, but is gets like all wrong. The skill level of todays player seems to be higher though.
 

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